Larry that is true but there are some disadvantages with raised beds especially for tomatoes. It is almost certain that sooner or later the dreaded nematodes will invade you raised beds. You should not have that problem with SWCs and even if you did you could dispose of that soil mix. Also for crop rotation you don't want to keep planting in the same raised bed. I like my raised beds for greens, beans and lettuces.

You can make your own SWCs very inexpensively. Marsha will probably totally disagree with me but I prefer my SWCs made with the 5 gallon buckets to EBs for tomatoes. I do not like tomatoes planted that close together. At the extension office they have quit using EBs for tomatoes and use them for other crops. All the tomatoes are planted in the Grow Buckets I make.

Larry, if space and time is not an issue for you, then yes, it will always be cheaper to grow in raised beds. In my case, I have a very small backyard, and I can get much more production out of my EarthTainers then I could out of raised beds taking up the same amount of space. I also experience much fewer disease and pest problems in my containers, which means less time it takes to maintain them - something that's very valuable to me. Also, having the EarthTainer connected to my watering system (just some 1/4" tubing down the fill pipe) is so easy, and I never have to worry about over-watering; with my raised beds, I'm always trying to find just the right amount/schedule.

What I have yet to determine is how many times I can re-use the potting medium. It's relatively expensive (compared to free compost!). I just had to replace it all as I had so many soil-borne disease issues in the spring. It was probably the third go-round for that media, maybe the fourth. I can deal with replacing it every 2-3 planting cycles, but not every season.

I have 4 tomato plants in EarthTainers, 2 in 5-gallon SWC buckets, and 6 in raised beds right now. We'll see what happens!

elight
You said it well. The benefits of EBs seem to boil down to savings in space, time and
better quality and quantity of produce on a plant to plant comparison with those grown in raised beds or native soil.
Your point on potting medium also applies to compost. I have a RB with much of the same compost for 3 years. In this RB I have approx 20 Carolina Wonder pepper plants. To date, this season, 4 plants have up and died and I replaced them with spares. I have a new RB with new compost and have a number of Carolina Wonder plants in it and none of these have shown any problems.
But when you get down to it, the real comparison is what you grow in your EBs and what you can buy at the local supermarket. I'm guessing, here you find the differences huge. Happy Gardening
Larry

[QUOTE=kayrobbins;506519]Larry that is true but there are some disadvantages with raised beds especially for tomatoes. It is almost certain that sooner or later the dreaded nematodes will invade you raised beds. You should not have that problem with SWCs and even if you did you could dispose of that soil mix. Also for crop rotation you don't want to keep planting in the same raised bed. I like my raised beds for greens, beans and lettuces.

You can make your own SWCs very inexpensively. Marsha will probably totally disagree with me but I prefer my SWCs made with the 5 gallon buckets to EBs for tomatoes. I do not like tomatoes planted that close together. At the extension office they have quit using EBs for tomatoes and use them for other crops. All the tomatoes are planted in the Grow Buckets I make.[/QUOTE]
Kay, I think the global/grow bucket concept is a good one, and actually, I totally agree with kerping each plant separate, I just can't see myself going to the effort because I am not well versed in use of a power drill. Aaaannndddd-after all, an EB does a fine job on my tomatoes. I have started several 7 gallon buckets this year in addition, which I line with paper toweling, to keep the nematodes out for a while, the paper still allows drainage. Then I solarize the pot to kill the remaining anythings, after the plant is finished.
I also totally agree that here in Fl, and several other states, sooner or later you will get nematodes, fusarium, other soil borne baddies if you don't have a system that is closed and sealed from the ground soil.
I guess technically I am not even growing in Florida!:lol:

[QUOTE=elight;506521]Larry, if space and time is not an issue for you, then yes, it will always be cheaper to grow in raised beds. In my case, I have a very small backyard, and I can get much more production out of my EarthTainers then I could out of raised beds taking up the same amount of space. I also experience much fewer disease and pest problems in my containers, which means less time it takes to maintain them - something that's very valuable to me. Also, having the EarthTainer connected to my watering system (just some 1/4" tubing down the fill pipe) is so easy, and I never have to worry about over-watering; with my raised beds, I'm always trying to find just the right amount/schedule.

What I have yet to determine is how many times I can re-use the potting medium. It's relatively expensive (compared to free compost!). I just had to replace it all as I had so many soil-borne disease issues in the spring. It was probably the third go-round for that media, maybe the fourth. I can deal with replacing it every 2-3 planting cycles, but not every season. [QUOTE]


Elight, I am on my 4 th year with some, and 5th year with other EB potting mixes. Last year I started putting clear plastic around the EBs, and solarizing( actually last year it was black plastic, till this year Barb did her excellent experiments and found that with clear plastic the contents got about 20* hotter). Each year the old fertilizer strip is dug out, as well as the top layer where all the salts are, then new dolomite lime is worked in, a new fertilizer strip, then fresh potting mix, and a new white plastic mulch cover. So every year I am replacing about 1/3 of the soil. I probably will keep doing this indefinitely until results start to get bad. Or until my husband's back gives out lifting the things in and out of the metal refurbishing stand I use. ;)

"I guess technically I am not even growing in Florida!"
And that is why you are so successful. My buckets only use 1 cubic foot and I never use it more than two times but it is not wasted. I use it to in flower beds, add some to the compost bins and other stuff. Since I usually make my own potting mix it does not cost as much as if I bought Promix but it sure is a dirty job. If I am feeling lazy and cheap I will use Jungle Growth Flower & Professional. It will fill two systems for $8. I know the EB forum finally accepted it as being ok to use.

[QUOTE=kayrobbins;506519]Larry that is true but there are some disadvantages with raised beds especially for tomatoes. It is almost certain that sooner or later the dreaded nematodes will invade you raised beds. You should not have that problem with SWCs and even if you did you could dispose of that soil mix. Also for crop rotation you don't want to keep planting in the same raised bed. I like my raised beds for greens, beans and lettuces.

You can make your own SWCs very inexpensively. Marsha will probably totally disagree with me but I prefer my SWCs made with the 5 gallon buckets to EBs for tomatoes. I do not like tomatoes planted that close together. At the extension office they have quit using EBs for tomatoes and use them for other crops. All the tomatoes are planted in the Grow Buckets I make.[/QUOTE]

Actually I don't find the dreaded nematode to be all that dreaded. Of course they are in the raised beds to a degree and some roots grow deeper than the depth of the bed anyway. Because of the intense heat here, our 2 seasons are somewhat short, therefore, by the time the nematodes get around to doing any serious damage the season is over anyway. For tomatoes, as a general rule, I try avoiding growing varieties with dates to maturity over 80 days. Also there is an endless list of tomato varieties resistant to nematodes. And for peppers I haven't grown many different varieties but I have found 3 that work well. Those being Orange Blaze, Carolina Wonder and Charleston Belle. They grow well enough that I am almost never out of peppers. The old standard California Wonder, I have found it not to do well at all here. Also, I have had fairly good fortune with a number of OP tomato varieties.

As far as rotating crops well it doesn't have much appeal to me. I plant Broccoli, Beans, Onions, Garlic, Tomatoes, Peppers almost always in the same beds. Has it hurt me, certainly doesn't seem to have. I plant approx 1 1/2 beds of Premium Crop Broccoli in the same beds that I have for several seasons. Once again the Broccoli plants look great and I expect to harvest in the neighborhood of 300+ heads of Broccoli by June 2016. I have a bed full of Jade II bush beans, in the same bed I have been growing them in for several seasons and once again they look great. What a great variety of bush green beans.

However, I hope to try my hand with SWCs at some time, especially for tomatoes. Also, before buying them I would watch a few RobBobs youtube videos and then try building a few.
Larry

[QUOTE=kayrobbins;506547]"I guess technically I am not even growing in Florida!"
And that is why you are so successful. My buckets only use 1 cubic foot and I never use it more than two times but it is not wasted. I use it to in flower beds, add some to the compost bins and other stuff. Since I usually make my own potting mix it does not cost as much as if I bought Promix but it sure is a dirty job. If I am feeling lazy and cheap I will use Jungle Growth Flower & Professional. It will fill two systems for $8. I know the EB forum finally accepted it as being ok to use.[/QUOTE]

Wow, I never dreamed one could grow a tomato plant in 1 cubic foot of growing medium. Also, good to know there is a EB forum.
Thanks
Larry

[QUOTE=Zone9b;506552]Wow, I never dreamed one could grow a tomato plant in 1 cubic foot of growing medium. Also, good to know there is a EB forum.
Thanks
Larry[/QUOTE]

A 5-gallon bucket is almost exactly 2/3 of a cubic foot. You can definitely have success with them, especially with dwarf varieties.

[QUOTE=Zone9b;506518]I am surely impressed at the tomatoes my fellow Florida gardeners grow in the EBs. They would make my life easier, especially related to watering. However, I have one problem with them. I can make a 4' x 16' raised bed with 2"x10"s and fill it to the top with compost for about the price of 1 EB.
Larry[/QUOTE]

EB are 3 for $90 at EB; it's a one time cost. When I first got them in Jan 2014, I had 3. I then made a knock off; and it took me all day mostly getting the stupid lid (as screen) inside the box. At that time, I told my DH - that the EB was worth every penny.

I have made more knock offs but don't do the lid. Hopefully, I don't need to use the knock offs this fall.

---
I have a bunch of raised beds - DH purchased the kits; but can't grow tomatoes in them due to nematodes. I was going to use the raised beds to hold my containers (root pouches) but am leaning toward growing some of the broccoli there.

Do you not get nematodes in your raised beds?

[QUOTE=Barb_FL;506557]EB are 3 for $90 at EB; it's a one time cost. When I first got them in Jan 2014, I had 3. I then made a knock off; and it took me all day mostly getting the stupid lid (as screen) inside the box. At that time, I told my DH - that the EB was worth every penny.

I have made more knock offs but don't do the lid. Hopefully, I don't need to use the knock offs this fall.

---
I have a bunch of raised beds - DH purchased the kits; but can't grow tomatoes in them due to nematodes. I was going to use the raised beds to hold my containers (root pouches) but am leaning toward growing some of the broccoli there.

Do you not get nematodes in your raised beds?[/QUOTE]

My question would be if the root pouches are set directly on the growing medium in the RB can the nematodes penetrate them and enter the medium in the pouch. Same thing with setting them directly on the ground or even very close to the ground. For instance on a concrete square where the pouch edge is very close to the concrete edge. I am almost sure I have nematodes in plastic grow bags setting on concrete squares as described. How this works? Grow bag has holes for drainage, concrete square settles now drain hole is in contact with soil, enter the nematode.

I'm guessing the upper levels of my RBs with compost don't have a lot of nematodes but at lower levels, where the compost is becoming soil, the nematodes are probably there in numbers.

As I said above there is a huge list of tomatoes resistant to nematodes, most being hybrids. However, it would appear some heirloom/OPs have some degree of
resistance but I assume they have never been officially tested, therefore they are not
listed as being nematode resistant. Examples, of heirloom/OPs I have grown in RBs with compost with fair success are Early Wonder, Clear Pink Early, West Virginia 63, Mortgage Lifter, Glacier, Aunt Ginny Purple, etc. I think I will be adding GGWT, PBTD and others to that list at the end of this season. Varieties that I am looking forward to try in the Spring and beyond, which are nematode resistant, are Brandy Boy, First Prize, JD's Special C Tex, Tomande, and Yaqui. I also have a secondary list containing other hybrids and Heirloom/Ops to give a try. And the list keeps growing. The plant breeding technology is said to be moving faster all the time.

Actually I see Early Blight a bigger issue here in Central Florida than nematodes. In my opinion some of the varieties listed as EB resistant, well they aren't very productive let alone tasty.
Larry

Larry - the Bucket in Bucket are really easy to make. Do you have your broccoli in the raised bed yet (or still containers)?

Kay - Do you grow ALL varieties in the 5 gallon SWC buckets? Any variety you wouldn't plant in one b/c it gets too large. I wouldn't do Kelloggs but anything else? I want to plant one today.

Solarizing:

Yesterday, I took a clear bagged EB that had been solarizing for months and it was steaming all the way to the bottom.

This solarizing for me is a huge job b/c I dumped into the EB on the way in; and am dumping again in an empty EB. NO signs of Pot worms.

One of my EB that wasn't on the pool deck didn't have a husky bag, and got really wet inside. No pot worms but ant/gnat infestation in part of it. Emptied it into another EB and redoing with the clear Husky bag. My pool deck is still really hot.

BTW - Solarizing in EB is definitely way better than in just the bag on a pallet.

Ginny/solarizing request from you - I took the EB out of the double black bag today; it had been double bagged for > 3.5 months (b4 I broke my wrist) and it wasn't nearly as HOT inside.

Barb
Yes I grow Broccoli in RBs. I grow way to much to do in containers. I have 105 plants in the ground now. I eat Broccoli and/or green beans literally every day and that is a quart at a time.
When I get around to SWCs I will revisit this conversation.
It has been fun. Thanks to all.
Larry

I grow broccoli in the ground also; mostly not even in a raised bed. I have some empty raised bed. I did an experiment a couple of years ago: big root pouch, raised bed, and ground. The root pouch was the earliest but smallest and limited side shoots, the raised bed was next in time and size, but the one in the ground was big, tons of side shoots. I've only been doing them in the ground since. This year may change b/c I don't have anything in the raised bed. Was going to use the space for tomatoes (raised grills).

I elevate all my root pouches; I have a lot of wooden pallets too, but when I like better is to put them on elevated grills - grills on bricks.

Never had any luck growing broccoli in the native soil here. When I changed to RBs and compost I grew lots. However, when I changed to RBs I also changed varieties to Packman then to Premium Crop, therefore, I don't have an exact comparison.

Elevating pouches and grow bags. Great idea. What do you do underneath and around them to keep the grass and weeds down?