[QUOTE=Sun City Linda;327241]Thanks Wayne but no, I dont agree. I grow in containers, actually Earthboxes and while I certainly agree that it is possible to get good results with organic ferts in containers, I find it much easier and economical to get a good crop using mostly synthetics. I have switched over to a blended synthetic 10-10-10 by Lily Miller this year after several lack luster years of using TomatoTone supplemented by other stuff. Lots and lots of other stuff.

Hands down organics when you are growing in actual dirt though![/QUOTE]
And I love a good debate...lol! But like I said I havent much experience with the synthetics and thus my question. I've had such good luck with organic/ natural that I stopped using them (synthetics) long ago. With the exception of bottled hormones which Ive stopped using recently. In actuality I'd be interested to hear more... If out of nothing else, curiousity of how others have gone.
I'm sure theres a million differnt approaches that are all different and varying degrees of organic/synthetic/both... I'm not saying its better, just something that didnt work well for me... In fairness my garden is VERY labor intensive because I do what I do the way I do it...lol! And YES I am one of those who applies smaller ammounts of fert. frequently. So as a semi stay at home (for various reasons) I actually like it this way. But I wouldnt want to do what I do if I had 200 pots though! LOL!!!
So what you're saying is: You havent seen any difference in uptake. Question answered. Thanks. Also... Sorry if we highjacked the thread. Didnt mean to-
Is there a specific one for syth vs organic advantages/disadvantages I missed?

Wayne there probably is a syth vs organic advantages/disadvantages thread or two or three somewhere here.:) If not you can always start one.

I'm with you though, I like the organic methods better. Two completely different systems, both can work for the intended purpose of growing plants and harvesting the fruit, but you have to rewire your brain to really understand either one of them and make them effective.

It reminds me of a YouTube video I watched awhile ago, this guy had two homemade shoe box type deep water culture hydroponics units in his kitchen and he was going to compare the General Hydroponics line of nutrients (mostly synthetic) against GH's General Organics line of nutrients. Organics is something he never did before and what was so obvious is he never read about what the General Organics line was designed for—which is soil! A DWC system is not designed for organics anyway, at least not without some major modifications, but his conclusion was the General Organics nutrients sucked because the plants didn't grow as big.
Actually he sucked because he had no idea what he was doing from the get go. He understood chemical salt fertilizers, but never did his homework about what organics is all about.

A lot of people don't know what organics is about, or how they work. So that is not surprising. But by the same token I wouldn't know how to set up a proper organics system in hydroponics or containers myself, and I do know how to grow organically outside in the ground.

So even though I have 35 years experience growing organically all over the United States, I can't even answer the question of how to even start making a Earthtainer system work organically.

The vid on YouTube for Earthtainers says they have an organic fertilizer mix though? So maybe check with them?

[QUOTE=Redbaron;327295]A lot of people don't know what organics is about, or how they work. So that is not surprising. But by the same token I wouldn't know how to set up a proper organics system in hydroponics or containers myself, and I do know how to grow organically outside in the ground.

So even though I have 35 years experience growing organically all over the United States, I can't even answer the question of how to even start making a Earthtainer system work organically.

The vid on YouTube for Earthtainers says they have an organic fertilizer mix though? So maybe check with them?[/QUOTE]

I guess those are the kind of things you've got to wrap your head around. Organics works easily enough in the ground because...there is life in the soil! Hopefully you've got a complete working Soil Food Web that is doing the job of recycling nutrients and feeding the plants. Organic fertilizers and amendments are pretty useless without the soil life. My regular containers are open to all comers—through the drain holes mostly. Worms find there way in, nematodes (the good ones), protozoa, beetles, mites, whatever. Plus whatever I put in myself as bacterial and fungal inoculants to boost that herd.
Earthtainers and Earthboxes on the other hand are a closed system, so you have to think about how and what you are going to add as soil life to work an organic system of nutrient recycling.

Actually, my brother grows fully organic in containers quite successfully and writes about it in books and magazines. I think Ray grows organically in his Earthtainers so I know its possible. But to me, growing organically, in an Earthbox seems like an oximoron. The wicking depends on the peat or other sterile potting mix and the organics depend on a living mini herd that would die off in a sterile enviornment. To the extent that you start adding compost or manures, you encourage a soggy, non wicking situation.:?!?:

Linda,

I'd be very interested in reading about what your brother is doing organically in containers. Can you give the name of one of his books or where his articles appear? My goal is to grow organically in containers, and that's been a real challenge for me.

Thanks,

Lyn

He grows a different kind of crop but very similar in requirements to tomatoes, or so I understand. He is Cultivation Editor for Skunk Magazine who published his first book True Living Organics, (Amazon) My Brother is partially disabled and grows organically in potting type soil in less than 5 gallon pots. I have not told him that I switched to a synthetic blend in my EBs, lol, sure he would not approve.;)

Thanks Linda! The growers of your brother's specialty crop have a lot of good information - I've learned so much from several of their grow forums on the web (and from the young guys at my local hydro store who are getting used to seeing me in there);)
Lyn

[QUOTE=Sun City Linda;327415]Actually, my brother grows fully organic in containers quite successfully and writes about it in books and magazines. I think Ray grows organically in his Earthtainers so I know its possible. But to me, growing organically, in an Earthbox seems like an oximoron. The wicking depends on the peat or other sterile potting mix and the organics depend on a living mini herd that would die off in a sterile enviornment. To the extent that you start adding compost or manures, you encourage a soggy, non wicking situation.:?!?:[/QUOTE]

I disagree Linda, there's no such thing as a sterile potting mix, no matter how carefully sterilized, when exposed to the environment any life that can will move in and survive just fine. All they need is food, water, and a place to live. Peat is only mostly sterile organic matter in a bog where most bacteria and fungi can't live in the acidic, anaerobic environment. Take it out of the bog in an aerobic environment and then will become alive with life and will decay further because there is food in there. Most potting mixes contain tough wood, bark and maybe coco fiber components too, cellulose and lignins are natural food sources for fungi.

I think Super Bloom is 15-30-15, and 20-20-20 always works for me-

RayR- if you want to work hard enough at it, and spend enough money innoculating the "wanna be" soil, I'm sure it can work in a SWC. I just dont think it works well, or for that matter quickly. Too many variables. My fall crop was late due to late 100 degree temps so most of it froze out but production with the new synthetic blend far outpaced anything I have seen to date with various organics and supplements in my EBs. Made a believer out of me :yes:

I use the 10-10-10 synthetic from Lowe's in my Earthbox's and I have great success.

There is a huge difference between organic and synthetic fertilizers in the amount you can put on. With an organic...you can not burn the plant. With a synthetic it doesn't take much to ruin/kill the entire plant/row you are fertilizing. That being said. Organic growing is a healthier option for the environment and the plant is more resistant to insects than with synthetic fertilizing ( I wonder if it has more nutrient dense per fruit, too. Just a thought, that is all). I can't grow and get good enough production using organic methods. I need the plant to produce a heavy crop, otherwise I am wasting the space in my field/garden to get enough to take to market.

You will never see the same NPK ratios with organic fertilizers as you see with synthetics, either. It just isn't possible. For example 11-48-8.. 20-20-20....not formulas you can get in organics. The high NPK ratios are always synthetic formulas

[QUOTE=clkeiper;327587]
You will never see the same NPK ratios with organic fertilizers as you see with synthetics, either. It just isn't possible. For example 11-48-8.. 20-20-20....not formulas you can get in organics. The high NPK ratios are always synthetic formulas[/QUOTE]

The high NPK doesn't matter, you can't mainline plant roots a chemical salt at an effective concentration of 20-20-20 or whatever, you'd kill the plant. That's why they have to be diluted or in a slow release form.
There are some high NPK organic ferts, but they generally only have a smaller percentage that is immediately plant available, regardless the bulk of organic nutrients have to be converted to plant available ions by soil life, that's why soil life is so critical to making organic production successful.

[QUOTE=clkeiper;327587]I can't grow and get good enough production using organic methods. I need the plant to produce a heavy crop, otherwise I am wasting the space in my field/garden to get enough to take to market.
[/QUOTE]

If you can't then time to rethink your methods. ;) Because there are many people that have cracked that problem. I routinely outproduce my neighbor who uses all the best conventional products. He basically has an unlimited budget compared to mine and he spends a LOT on his garden. Me and my no budget garden out produce him by double most years. If I had his budget, I am sure I could double it again.