My saved seeds from last years best Brandy Boy plant are blowing away the last of my F1's. I will hold judgement until I have fruit, but the plant is looking real good.

[QUOTE=Hudson_WY;649253]That's great to know - thanks for making the call. That is also constant with the F2 I planted this year. We do not yet have a ripe one to check the taste - but the plant and fruit look identical to the F1(s)!!
Thanks![/QUOTE]

No problem! I plan to save seeds, too.

[QUOTE=Gardeneer;649274]yes .

STABILIZED hybrid. == Open Pollinated : IT IS NOT TECHNICALLY A HYBRID F1 ANYMORE.[/QUOTE]

Yay! And just out of curiosity, I looked on the Burpee website to see if they used the term "F1" for any of their hybrid tomatoes They don't; I only saw "F1" attached to the names of strawberries and hibiscus flowers. Now I'm wondering if other Burpee "hybrids" really aren't, not that I've tried them. But I imagine it's a lot cheaper to produce seeds from "stabilized hybrids"/open-pollinated varieties than continually produce F1s...

[QUOTE=HudsonValley;649325]Yay! And just out of curiosity, I looked on the Burpee website to see if they used the term "F1" for any of their hybrid tomatoes They don't; I only saw "F1" attached to the names of strawberries and hibiscus flowers. Now I'm wondering if other Burpee "hybrids" really aren't, not that I've tried them. But I imagine it's a lot cheaper to produce seeds from "stabilized hybrids"/open-pollinated varieties than continually produce F1s...[/QUOTE]

"Hybrid" is a tricky word.Most recennt OPs have been hybrid at some point, either by design or by accident. Thus "Hybrid" Should only be reserved for F1 version. OR it should be specified what "F" version is it ? F3, Fn ??

BTW: My seeds from my best Brandy Boy is fermenting already.

Brandu Boy shines in my garden. Almost no spoilage due to cracking, splitting .. no green or woody shoulders. Those are beside being productive and having good taste. [I]In my opinion, no garden should be without it. [/I]

[QUOTE=HudsonValley;649325]Yay! And just out of curiosity, I looked on the Burpee website to see if they used the term "F1" for any of their hybrid tomatoes They don't; I only saw "F1" attached to the names of strawberries and hibiscus flowers. Now I'm wondering if other Burpee "hybrids" really aren't, not that I've tried them. But I imagine it's a lot cheaper to produce seeds from "stabilized hybrids"/open-pollinated varieties than continually produce F1s...[/QUOTE]

I do believe so, but not just Burpees. Have you ever grown Yummy peppers? they used to be heirloom or OP... from Hungary I do believe.... they are now listed as hybrid seeds in EVERY catalog I get. they are not hybrid seeds. I think the seed companies are preying on our trust. This is a very small seed producing (and sometimes zero) pepper so in order to make money on a great pepper the only way to get the $$$ out of them is to charge as if they are a hybrid that took a lot of effort.

Producing "hybrid" seeds is labor intensive. You need a kind of laboratory environment, have trained people to do the job ONE FLOWER AT A TIME. Then tag it, bag it, harvest it, ferment it, dry it, pack it....
So for the smart seed company it is more economical to stabilize it an then save/sell seeds.

Another reason for the seeds companies to call something "hybrid" is to discourage the average Joe The Gardener from saving his own seeds.

[QUOTE=Gardeneer;649350]Producing "hybrid" seeds is labor intensive. You need a kind of laboratory environment, have trained people to do the job ONE FLOWER AT A TIME. Then tag it, bag it, harvest it, ferment it, dry it, pack it....
So for the smart seed company it is more economical to stabilize it an then save/sell seeds.

Another reason for the seeds companies to call something "hybrid" is to discourage the average Joe The Gardener from saving his own seeds.[/QUOTE]

I think you are "spot-on" Gardeneer !!

[QUOTE=Gardeneer;649350]Another reason for the seeds companies to call something "hybrid" is to discourage the average Joe The Gardener from saving his own seeds.[/QUOTE]

I don't know how many times I've been told that 'seeds you save yourself just won't grow'. Not won't produce something you want, but simply won't even grow!

Most folks have no clue.

The other thing that really grinds my gears, that goes right along with this whole 'hybrid infinitum' is PVPs that expired still being sold as if the PVP were still valid...some being expired for nearly 10 yrs and still demanding a premium price! (Anyone else notice that PVP protection has jumped up to 20 yrs now?)

I was suspecting that it may be the case, when I brought it up...because, after a few years of researching, mostly beans but several other Burpee varieties, I noticed that if it's a Burpee F1, they will state it. I didn't notice anything about that in any of the official Burpee literature, they just called it a hybrid. In 'Burpee speak', that can mean any later generation, really. Some of their beans were as high as F9 and as low as F4 and both were being called 'hybrid'.

[QUOTE=clkeiper;649343]I do believe so, but not just Burpees. Have you ever grown Yummy peppers? they used to be heirloom or OP... from Hungary I do believe.... they are now listed as hybrid seeds in EVERY catalog I get. they are not hybrid seeds. I think the seed companies are preying on our trust. This is a very small seed producing (and sometimes zero) pepper so in order to make money on a great pepper the only way to get the $$$ out of them is to charge as if they are a hybrid that took a lot of effort.[/QUOTE]

I haven't grown Yummy peppers, but it looks like Burpee sells seed -- and it's not described as a hybrid on their website: [url]http://www.burpee.com/vegetables/peppers/pepper-sweet-yummy-prod099721.html[/url]
Perhaps another call to the Customer Service dept. is in order! :lol:
On a more serious note, I didn't know that this sort of misrepresentation was such a widespread practice. I'm not terribly surprised, though. :evil:

Great to know. BUt even then, it seems to have the 'hybrid vigor'.. (although plenty of vigorous OPs as well)

I'll save seeds for sure, my plant is finally blooming and making the first little knobs.

wow oh wow... 4.95 for 20 seeds? who would not think it wasn't Op at that price, though. I honestly haven't looked at their web site for them but I could not find them in their catalog either.... on all of the different pages they have peppers on. they aren't listed together, they are all over the catalog and listed just as pages that peppers are on. stupid.

[url]https://www.totallytomato.com/P/03240/Yummy+Orange+Hybrid+Pepper[/url]
[url]https://www.hpsseed.com/P/03247/Yummy+Mix+Hybrid+Pepper[/url]

Brandy Boy looks like a sure winner and one that I will try in my garden next year. Thank you Hudson and Gardeneer for the feedback!

But isn't it illegal to sell an OP as hybrid F1?

[QUOTE=NarnianGarden;649779]But isn't it illegal to sell an OP as hybrid F1?[/QUOTE]

No where in the official Burpee literature does it say that BrandyBoy is an F1 hybrid.

No where do they give the generation number that is being sold.

We have found out in this thread that it's stabilized, so it is likely to be able to have savable seed.

I'm not sure if it's under a PVP/patent or other protection.

As to calling it a 'hybrid', I know of no LEGAL restriction to that..OP is NOT a legal definition, either.

SunGold is described as a hybrid on Burpee web site too, no mention of F1 either, but one assumes it's the F1 that is well known and loved by so many people.
Very misleading marketing...and confusing.