[quote=rnewste;122859]

Now, the challenge is to figure out a "reverse-heater" unit to REMOVE heat from the water reservoir in July onward and chill the water to keep it then at 78 degrees, or so. Any ideas???

Ray:D:D[/quote]

I have this image of a tomato plant growing out of the top of a dorm fridge in my head now.

Please make it stop. :))

Luckily for me, I don't have one laying around anywhere.


------------------------------------------------------------

More seriously, I was looking at aquarium heaters on Amazon and the Tetra ones had pretty dismal user reviews. Also, I was sort of wondering if more power might be useful since the temps outside will be well below any room temperature that an aquarium might be expected to deal with.

Assuming that one doesn't go crazy with spray foam insulation, which might not be a very good assumption.

Anyway. I'm thinking of picking up one or two of [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-THEO-Submersible-Aquarium-Heater/dp/B0006JLPFY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1289348557&sr=8-3"]these[/URL] (150W) or even [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-THEO-Submersible-Aquarium-Heater/dp/B00061UQG6/ref=sr_1_27?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1289350091&sr=1-27#productPromotions"]these (300W)[/URL] (they are about the same price after shipping). Fully submersible, shatterproof and not damaged by running dry all sound good to me.

Any thoughts?

llc,

Yes, I would go with the higher power ones. The ones I experimented with did indeed keep the water elevated vs. ambient temps, but not at a constant 78 degrees. A more powerful one would certainly solve that problem.:yes:

Have fun!!!

Raybo

Ordered two 300W heaters.

This should be interesting.

llc,

Just be sure that it does not come in contact with the walls of the container, or a 300W heater might melt a hole through it. I would have thought a 150W unit would have been good enough. Remember, you are heating only about 6 to 8 gallons of water, vs much more in an aquarium.

Question: Does the 300W heater dial it back down once the water reaches 78 degrees? I guess it would...

Raybo

This is going back a ways in the post but someone asked if there might be a way to heat the top portion as well if temps dipped too much in their area if the were using the cold frame type set up and when I read it I thought maybe a Ceramic Infrared Heat Emitter like used in reptile setup might work in the top portion might could be used with the water heating you mentioned. This might could give even an earlier start. You can also buy thermostatic devices to be used with them that will turn them on and off based on a set temp.

So between the water heat and the top heat in a SWC cold frame set up it would be like having an ultra mini green house that is climate controlled.

That is an excellent idea, to heat the upper "air" in the IncuTainer when you get a cold snap. Do you have any links to devices that would work?

Raybo

Sure something like this would probably work if used with a Repti Temp Thermostat or a Rheostats

Zoo Med ReptiCare Ceramic Heat Emitter they have them in different watts

[url]http://www.amazon.com/ReptiCare-Ceramic-Heat-Emitter-100w/dp/B0002AQCPU/ref=pd_sim_k_2[/url]

Raybo, aquarium heaters should all have thermostats so I figured more watts could only help. My main concern was that the difference between, 40 degrees and 78 degrees was a lot more than between, say, 65 degrees and 78 so more heat would be needed to raise the temperature of the water. Maybe EarthTainers will hold the heat better (glass vs plastic) but maybe not.

Now I did read a decent number of complaints about heaters malfunctioning and cooking off fish so it's something to keep an eye on. But the line of heaters I linked to seemed to get good reviews. One complained about losing hundreds of dollars of coral to a failed $10, 300W heater. I could only shake my head at the lack of common sense displayed.

I'll have plenty of time to do experiments before I need to install the heaters. In particular I'm interested to see how they behave when no longer submerged.

I'm not experienced with products of this type, but it does look very promising. The 150W (with the free Amazon shipping) seems like a pretty good deal:

[URL]http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiCare-Ceramic-Infrared/dp/B0002AQCQO/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t[/URL]

Question: do these emitters put out a constant 150W, or is there some temp sensor built in that regulates the temp to a prescribed setting?

EDIT: Looks like this socket would sense the temp:

[URL]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006U2HD2/ref=pd_luc_cps_01_02[/URL]

Oops, It turns "on" at 35 degrees, which is too low a temperature. I would want to see a unit that turns on at 45 or maybe higher temps.

Raybo

[QUOTE=rnewste;188745]I'm not experienced with products of this type, but it does look very promising. The 150W (with the free Amazon shipping) seems like a pretty good deal:

[URL]http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiCare-Ceramic-Infrared/dp/B0002AQCQO/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t[/URL]

Question: do these emitters put out a constant 150W, or is there some temp sensor built in that regulates the temp to a prescribed setting?

EDIT: Looks like this socket would sense the temp:

[URL]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006U2HD2/ref=pd_luc_cps_01_02[/URL]

Oops, It turns on at 35 degrees, which is too low a temperature. I would want to see a unit that turns on at 45 or maybe higher temps.

Raybo[/QUOTE]

You can ask at a pet store or on a reptile forum but as far as I know they operate as on meaning they stay on and have no built in temp control that is why you would need a device like the one you posted.

Not sure how many degrees they would change the space they are in but as long as they would come on and stay on long enough to prevent freezing I would think that they would work well.

So, what do you guys think of this heater for the air chamber?

[url]http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiTherm%C2%AE-Under-Heater/dp/B0002AQCKA/ref=pd_sim__15[/url]

Raybo

Heating the water is more efficient. Water drops in temperature much slower than air does.

I think you are dealing with 2 eco-systems here. First, keeping the water in the reservoir at a constant 78 degrees will accelerate root and upper plant development. Here, the aquarium heater is pretty effective.

Now to the upper portion of the IncuTainer. This is where wild fluctuations due to ambient temperature changes from day to night need to be addressed. The aquarium heater will have minor effect on the air temperature around the plant's stem and leaves. So a second heat source like the reptile cage warmer would come into play. Protecting the plant's foliage to maintain a minimum temperature at night to no less than 45 degrees is essential, if you are going to put out your plants early for development in cooler weather.

In summary, I think it best to provide a dual "lower" and "upper" warming solution.

Raybo;)

Even if this rather herculean effort works, is there sufficient sun light to result in good tasting and textured tomatoes? I've wondered if it were the temps or the lesser number of hours and less direct sunlight that causes tomatoes to become flavorless and mealy over the winter months? I hope this makes the list of your many experiments Ray "the tomato mad scientist" Newste!

I was thinking across slightly different lines.

Basically, you can't use the full IncuTainer to grow Tomatoes in the winter since there isn't enough room for the plants to grow.

I'm thinking that you will be more limited as far as how early you can plant your tomatoes by not wanting to remove the greenhouse tops before the threat of a hard frost is gone than by worries that the warmed base and greenhouse effect won't keep the air chamber warm enough. Especially if you cover up the whole thing with a tarp on any particularly cold night. I could be wrong though.

As for the quality of tomatoes, I remember watching a video of a Michigan farmer who grew in hoophouses and also used cold frames inside them to get early heirloom tomatoes to sell at a good price. He claimed that the early tomatoes were fine (I guess the sunlight was increased by the time the plants were pumping energy into fruits) but that the tomatoes he got late in the season suffered due to the lack of sun.