RL or PL?
 

First and second images, Are they RL or PL?

They are both PL. Different phenos. Let me know.

Thanks for the reply,
I was pretty sure about the lower leaf, but the top confused me.
Both leaves are from the same plant, purchased as "Indian Stripe" from TGS in 2016.
I guess they don't distinguish IS from ISPL there.

I would have said RL for both...? Curious as to why they would be defined as PL.

[QUOTE=Father'sDaughter;654552]I would have said RL for both...? Curious as to why they would be defined as PL.[/QUOTE]
Same here.

Ok we do not have a consensus.
Image 1 does not have deep indents in the leaf margin, which would indicate to my amateur eyes PL, but image 2 is different, I can't say if they are deep or shallow.

Hopefully more will chime in.

Any experts, here? I not only look at leaf shape, but also how many leaves on a branch. My PL plants usually (always?) have fewer leaves per branch.

I wish I had a pic of my oddest plant this year. The best way I can describe it would be Talon Leaf.:?:

RL me thinks. PL has a variant that has what I call, or have read called, the mitten
shape. A thumb of sorts but still smooth edges.

Though I am often wrong...

No expert here by any stretch, at first glance I thought 1st pic pl, 2nd pic rl. Now I am very curious!

[QUOTE=oakley;654578]RL me thinks. PL has a variant that has what I call, or have read called, the mitten
shape. A thumb of sorts but still smooth edges.

Though I am often wrong...[/QUOTE]

First pic is mittenesque, maybe doesn't show it the best.

It is becoming clearer.
Stump of the world
Kbx
Bloody butcher
All look like this
That must be PL
Older leaves may get a little bit of a "thumb" but no serration or indents in the leaf margin.

Like Tormato said there are fewer leaves per compound leaf also.

So looks like first pics are of Indian Stripe RL (which is what was purchased) , with a potatoee older leaf?
After comparing I can see serrations in first pic, and it looks less potato like to me.

Here's an example of "mittenesque" on one of my dwarf plants

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170714/3707fd8805a34b8375182b74fcab4a2e.jpg[/IMG]

I'm growing PL plants Green Giant, Galina's, and Japanese Black Trifele this year, and all have the "mitten" terminal leaflet as mature plants. I think that's actually the norm? The secondary leaflets are often completely smooth, i.e., no "thumbs". And when they were seedlings, the leaves had no "thumbs".

I've never looked that closely, but it sounds right. I have stump of the world and aunt ginny's purple, both PL, that I can check if I remember. Remote garden.

I think both pics in the original post are RL. For the first plant, more pics would be helpful, but that really looks like RL to me.

May be there is a version that has leaves that look P like and some L like.
The first picture in the first post looks like PL and the second one Rl.
And the ones in the last picture look more lik PL too
If a varity mutate to PL , it can mutate to something in between RL and PL. Me thinks

[QUOTE=gorbelly;656215]I'm growing PL plants Green Giant, Galina's, and Japanese Black Trifele this year, and all have the "mitten" terminal leaflet as mature plants. I think that's actually the norm? The secondary leaflets are often completely smooth, i.e., no "thumbs". And when they were seedlings, the leaves had no "thumbs".[/QUOTE]

I checked stump of the world and aunt ginny's purple today. They both had mostly smooth leaves with the terminal mittens. Aunt ginnys "smoothness" was greater than the stump, but I they are both clearly PL when compared to RL next to them.

The PL do seem to last a bit longer than RL against early blight/septoria. I was honestly skeptical about that in previous years, but this time those PL heirlooms are next to RL heirlooms. Whereas most years I have had them next to RL hybrids and it seemed like PL vs RL was a wash.

Nematode, I've been waiting for others to reply. I think that leaf type is called rugose. Last year, I asked what that leaf shape is and several people told me it is rugose. Mine looked just like your second picture.

I don't remember which thread it was on?

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;657305]Nematode, I've been waiting for others to reply. I think that leaf type is called rugose. Last year, I asked what that leaf shape is and several people told me it is rugose. Mine looked just like your second picture.

I don't remember which thread it was on?[/QUOTE]

Both regular leaves and potato leaves can be rugose. It means the leaves are thick and crinkled/puckered. Many dwarf varieties have this trait. It think rugose leaves are also very dark green--all the rugose leaved varieties I've grown have been. Not sure whether rugose leaves with lighter coloration exist.

EDIT: I did find this blog entry of a person growing out a cross in which some of the plants are rugose and variegated, which is kind of cool. [url]https://mostlytomatomania.blogspot.com/2014/03/little-big-chocolate-yum-update.html[/url]

[QUOTE=jillian;654580]No expert here by any stretch, at first glance I thought 1st pic pl, 2nd pic rl. Now I am very curious![/QUOTE]

This ^^^

I've said this before.
Why do we think leaf form can only be classified as PL or RL? Especially now with all the crossing of every kind of leaf type, there are going to be gradations of in between types that show up with characteristics that may lean toward one end of the spectrum or the other. I guess you can call anything with a bit of a serration as RL. In reality, genetics will spread looks all over the place, just like in humans. :lol:

I used to have a wonderful link in my faves from Germany where 6 different PL leaf forms were shown and described in German, that's OK, but the last time I tried to pull it up it was a dead link,and that was several,well,many years ago.

I got that link from Spudleaf Willie,aka Bill Malin,many years ago.

I don't get hung up that much on leaf form,since it's the fruits that interest me the most,what they taste like,etc.

And if given a choice between the same variety,one that's RL and the other PL,I will always go with the PL one.

Carolyn