How Can I Improve the Taste of Container Grown Tomatoes?
 

Without generalizing too much, I have found over the years that in-the-dirt tomato plants have yielded the better tasting tomatoes as compared with those at the other end of the spectrum, grown hydroponically. Container grown tomatoes fall in somewhere between, but closer to in-the-ground ones, in my past experience.

This season I want to "experiment" with some additional additives to try to get as close as I can in EarthTainer growing, to the "in-the-ground" taste parity. In addition to the Tomato-tone fertilizer with the additional micro-nutrients they add, I will be using Actinovate, which the package claims: "Enhances plant vitality; Encourages larger root systems". While I am always skeptical of package claims, I have personally verified that Actinovate did give me much larger and more vigorous Oregon Snow Pea plants vs. no additive.:yes:

In reading a Thread on another forum, it is claimed that addition of Sea Salt improves the flavor and BRIX level of the tomatoes. While I don't want to dump some seawater into the 'Tainer and "wing it", possibly killing off all my plants, I have been thinking about adding some Greensand into the Potting Mix as a better substitute.

Again, I would like to make these additive decisions based on scientific reasoning rather than old wives tales, so if there is some solid basis on what additives I could experiment with (and not clog up the wicking action of the EarthTainer medium), I would appreciate any suggestions - - either what DID work, and just as valuable, what DID NOT work for you.

Thanks,

Ray:D

I have heard that in Japan one very famous tomato grower adds nigari to his water mix. [URL="http://www.simply-natural.biz/Nigari.php"]Nigari[/URL] is derived from seawater.
Nigari is a natural coagulant to turn soy milk into tofu.

From Wikipedia:
Culinary use
Magnesium chloride is an important coagulant used in the preparation of tofu from soy milk. In Japan it is sold as nigari (にがり, derived from the Japanese word for "bitter"), a white powder produced from seawater after the sodium chloride has been removed, and the water evaporated. In China it is called "lushui" (卤水 in Chinese). Nigari or Lushui consists mostly of magnesium chloride, with some magnesium sulfate and other trace elements. It is also an ingredient in baby formula milk.

Jeff

Ray. Go to the following site and check out their "High Brix Gardening Kit". This is Thomas Giannou's site "T&J Enterprises. It includes their BioVam mycorrhiza, biosol 7-2-3 organic fertilizer, Planters II trace mineral fertilizer, Calcium kit, Microbe tea and Yucca. The kit is good for seven 2 cubic foot containers or 14 square feet of soil. Might be a good test for "Ray Buster's" Tainer farm. And it's Organic. Here's the link.

[URL]http://www.tandjenterprises.com/index.html[/URL]

Thanks Ami, this site truly amazes me for the collective knowledge that TV members possess (kind of scary though - - Dr. Strangelove personalities)??:twisted::twisted:

Ray:D

Peaceful Valley has a 2-part product called "Brix Mix", a bit
pricy (need to buy a 60-lb bag of the powder and 5 gallons
of the liquid for $120US each):

The dry part:
[url]http://www.groworganic.com/item_F237_Brix_Mix_Powder_60_lb.html[/url]

The liquid part:
[url]http://www.groworganic.com/item_F242_Brix_Mix_Liquid_5_Gallon.html[/url]

It is a foliar/fertigation type product (mixed with water and
applied as a liquid). At those quantities, it may be more suitable
for people with an acre of tomatoes than for a few Earthtainers
in your backyard.

Whatever you use, how are you going to tell if it worked?

Salt and seawater are kind of a double-edged sword (brix may
go up but production go down, assuming that you don't kill
the plant outright by using too much).

Edit:
I see that Peaceful Valley has smaller quantities of the Brix Mix
products available, too (I missed the links to them when looking
it up initially):
Dry:
[url]http://www.groworganic.com/item_F235_Brix_Mix_Powder_3_Lb.html[/url]
Liquid:
[url]http://www.groworganic.com/item_F240_Brix_Mix_Liquid_Quart.html[/url]

Thanks dice for the links.

I guess what I am looking for is a more "in-the-dirt" kind of flavor result that my current (soiless) potting mix doesn't provide. Hard to describe exactly, but I am trying to replicate in a container, a similar taste profile that I used to get from my raised bed tomatoes.:love:

I know achieving 100% of that goal is impossible - - but I thought an amendment like GreenSand or something similar would help get me toward my quest.:?!?:

Ray

Besides the greensand, one could try mixing earthworm
castings into your container mix. That usually contains
a wealth of beneficial microfauna, besides the modest
levels of N-P-K, etc.

You probably do not want to overdo that if you plan on reusing
most of the mix (loss of air space), just a couple of handfuls
to inoculate the container.

dice,

Yes, I need to strike a careful "balance" in not screwing up the vital wicking action of the potting mix itself - - or all would be lost! The earthworm castings might be a prudent approach used, as you say, sparingly.

Any other earthy "flavor enhancement" soil ideas that you all may have to add to the potting mix??

Ray

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What about molasses? I would think that a little put in with the water might increase the Brix. Just a thought. Do you have one of those things that tests Brix? You could try one Earth Tainer without Molasses or some other container additive and actually test the Brix to see if it is different. That way you actually have numbers to it. :?!?:
Kat

Ray,

My container grown tomatoes always have better, more intense/concentrated flavor than the ones I grow in the main garden. I always thought the reason for it was uneven watering and container mix drying up completely in hot days. Not sure if I am correct in my assumption, but I had no other reasonable explanation.

Another thing is that I do not grow my container tomatoes in a soiless mix. I mix manure, compost, some soil, and peat moss to make my own container mix.

I water my main garden tomatoes with a mix of molasses, liquid fish and seaweed every two weeks. I do the same for container-grown tomatoes, only without molasses (as I never remember to bring it back from the main garden :) ).

Tania

Hi Tania,

I guess my challenge is a bit more difficult than "normal" container growing, as my 'Tainers need to wick up moisture from a water reservoir to work properly. So adding manure, for example, would likely break the capillary wicking properties that the SWC 'Tainer needs.

So while I am limited to a soiless potting mix due to the physics of the wicking action, I still would like to come up with an additive blend of additional elements to more closely replicate the taste of good ole in-ground tomatoes. Dice has some interesting ideas that I may experiment with. The 'Tainer environment is a pretty uniform "clinical" platform to conduct "A/B" comparisons, as Kat suggested.

Ray;)

I see your challenge Ray...

Sorry I cannot help, as I am a 'normal' container grower, and a very 'sloppy' one when it comes to watering my tomatoes ;)
That's why I always admired your 'Tainers'. :)

Tania

I've also not really found a problem with flavors of containers grown tomatoes vs those in the soil. Not that I can really generalize - two years ago my Cherokee Purples were amongst the best I ever tasted, last year they were bland. I had nearly 100 in containers - some were great, some not so great, but the same with those in the soil. I just think that the variety and the particular season are very significant factors. And I use mostly soilless mix with some composted cow manure, and only minimally feed.

Ray

I understand what you are driving at. I grow in containers and wonder if I am missing something not going "au natural" so to speak.

But the one assumption i would be making is that the difference in taste is due to the soil. I would think I would have to eliminate or control all other variables to reach that conclusion.

Same variety, same stage of ripeness, same feeding, same amount of water, same part of season, same sunshine, etc would have to be controlled before one could say the differences would be soil. And then of course I would have to control the tasting. Do I do it blind? Gather other opinions?

I decided it was way too much work. I decided to slice a big slab of ripe tomato, salt and pepper and mayo between 2 slices of squishy white bread and enjoy.

Duane

Ray.....

I might suggest you try seaweed extract as I plan to do this season. Have read quite a lot on the subject & have decided it's worth trying. Seaweed extract inhances the benefits of mycorrhiza & other soil microbes in making the soil nutrients more available for uptake by rootlets. There are several other benefits attributed to seaweed extract and you may wish to google it for yourself. Good luck!

I'm always amazed at the way most of us look for the panacea of taste, fruit size, and other factors. I'm convinced that we could all grow the same varieties each year and some would rate one above the other in any given category of taste, production, etc...

So, I will continue to grow as many varieties as I can each year and decide (eventually) that my setup gets me some good tomatoes from certain varieties. There are too many variables in the formula to make concrete statements.

But, I think that we can gather a list of a few that will produce for us (individually) each year in an "acceptable" harvest of flavor and quantity.

Of course, I could be wrong.:P :P :P

Ted

Its funny because I grew a half dozen well known varieties in 18 gallon homemade SWC's. They all got the exact same soil, fertilizer strip, inconsistant watering schedule and sun. One variety stood out that had that "wow" factor and the rest were spitters. So all in all my inground tomatoes were [U]much[/U] better than my containered ones last year. Go figure!

Damon

As I am very happy with my liquid ferts I use (BioBizz Bio-Grow) which is organic I'm thinking of tweaking my aggregate I'm using (rhododendron mix), with a couple products I found at "Planet Natural". One is "Kelp Meal" and the other is "Shellfish Fertilizer". Also some new one's for my foliar which I have already mentioned in that thread. Ami

I've read in a couple of places that Miracle Grow like products and soil mixes can negatively affect the flavor of your tomatoes. . . that's why I've been hesitant in the past to grow in containers.

Don't know if it's true though!;)

A touch of Boron, a dap of Pacific Sea water with rain water and your nocturnal sprinkling mixed with some kelp will assist you in your quest, Ray.

George

I just thought of something....the single best tomatoes I've had in recent years - Green Giant and Lucky Cross - were both grown in containers. Just incredible flavor. And Sungold grows in a container each year and the flavor is identical to when grown in the ground.

[quote=geeboss;121373]A touch of Boron, a dap of Pacific Sea water with rain water and your nocturnal sprinkling mixed with some kelp will assist you in your quest, Ray.

George[/quote]

George,

Could you be a bit more specific on the Boron additive? Is it in a commercial product form where I could purchase it at Lowes? As I live about 25 miles from the Pacific Ocean, I certainly could fetch a couple gallon jugs of seawater, and I think I've got the [I]"nocturnal sprinkling"[/I] well in hand...:twisted:

Boron = Borax = Boraxo

Many parts of the country are low in Boron, especially the mid-west. I forget just what it does for tomatoes, but for broccoli and cauliflower if you get "hollow stem", especially if it's rusty or brownish inside, you are low in Boron.

You need to be careful tho as too much can be toxic to the plants. That can be used to your advantage tho if you grow beets. Beets are 1 of the few plants very tolerant to Boron. After seeding, you can sprinkle a narrow strip of Borax on the ground above the beet seed. It won't hurt the beets but will serve as a "herbicide" to keep the weeds down in the beets.

I don't know the exact amount to use tho as that is something a neighbor market grower friend of mine does. I would think you could find it somewhere in the internet tho. I have seen it in some university bulletin years ago.

Carol

Tomato-tone contains Boron. So do a lot of other pre-mixed
organic fertilizers. I think even Miracle-Gro has some.

There was a thread last year or the year before on kelp and
flavor on the GW tomato forum. A few people expressed the
opinion that kelp enhances flavor (micronutrients), while
one grower said that he had grown the same cultivar side
by side with and without it and that he could not taste any
difference in flavor. He did notice that it seemed to have a
positive effect on seedling vigor and health, though.

My impression is that brix comes down to minerals and
microbes, mostly, and a reasonable pH. The farther you get
below 6.0 or above 7.0, the worse your brix readings, because
mineral nutrients that the plant needs quickly become insoluble
at those pH levels. If your soil is actually deficient in something
vital, you get the same brix downgrade even if the pH is right
on at 6.5. If your soil lacks soil microbes (killed by sterilization
or chemicals), a lot of the minerals that are there are not made
available to the plant. (This is where compost and manure teas
and earthworm castings can help a container mix, repopulating
it with beneficial microbes that were killed off in the process
of making it disease-free from the factory.)

Notice on the fertilizer labels where it splits nitrogen and other
elements into "soluble" and "insoluble" proportions? Without
the soil microbes that can break down those insoluble
compounds into water soluble components, the plant never
gets the benefit of that part of the fertilizer.

For those interested in more information on Brix here's a link.

[url]http://www.tandjenterprises.com/brix_equals_quality.htm[/url]

Here's a link to the forum at Yahoo where they discuss brix and ways to increase the qualities of produce grown thus increasing the brix as well. Ami

[email]BrixTalk@yahoogroups.com[/email]

Good Morning Ami - - I am ready to go to bed here tonight (Saturday evening)!

As always, great information to read up on. Thanks,

Ray;)

Yes, when I come online in the AM most of you colonials are getting ready to hit the rack. A big world we live in. Ami

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Or you get us night owls! Off tonight and am hoping I can get a nap soon
Kat

Kat, I new that was comming.;) That's why I said most. I worked shift up till 2001. Then I became a "Day Bagger". At least now I get every weekend off but still miss shift work. Problem is the older you get the longer it takes the body to recuperate, especially when you flip flop between days and nights. Ami

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Yes it does! Have to go to days for next 1-2 weeks for some intense computer training. Of course I have seen the program and no way it will take two weeks unless there is more than I have had a glimps of
Kat