Grow Light System on Amazon
 

Does anyone have experience with this grow light system?
[URL]http://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLSETX400DHMWING-400-Watt-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B005DO30MI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1388499195&sr=8-4&keywords=metal+halide+grow+light[/URL]

I'm curious about how well this would work as a substitute for
my fluorescent shop light setup.
Also, any other general advice/comments on these type of lighting systems would be great!

Thanks,

Lee

For ornamental indoor plants many types of supplemental "plant lights" will suffice. But for production of fruit much more energy in a specific spectral range is required. To produce a crop of tomatoes:
• Light source must have color temperature of 6500 Kelvin.
• Add up the total Watts of the light source. Use actual Watts, not Lumen equivalent.
• Light source must be directed downward by a reflective hood.
• Position the light source 1 meter above the floor and measure the projected area of the light.
• The total watts divided by the projected area must be in the range of 50-75 Watts per square foot.
• During use, keep the light source 1 meter above foliage.

This works out to about 18 4-foot T5 HO 6500K bulbs mounted above the plants in a 4'x4' grid. For cucurbits, you can get away with half of this.

Hi Lee,

Doing some research on LED's vs. fluorescent, I came across this really useful article, particularly in regards to fluorescent vs HPS vs MH (and a few more - but not so much on LED's). There are some good comparison charts towards the end of the article.

[URL]http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/lighting.html[/URL]

BTW, I disagree somewhat with Hermitian's statements that one "must" have 6500 K lights (although they are desirable for seed starting and vegetative growth) or that the lights must be 1 meter above the plants (that might apply for his particular scenario, but I think that most of us have fluorescent lights MUCH closer to the plants - especially seedlings - than 1 meter!).

Anne

That is a very attractive price on that product. The digital ballasts do tend to eat bulbs fairly quickly, especially the cheaper brands. Maybe it would be ok. You wouldn't know until you tried it, and I'm guessing the people on Amazon leaving positive reviews have not used the ballast long enough to see how long their bulbs last. Their bulbs are labelled "Hortilife," which is obviously a cheap ripoff of Horti[I]lux[/I], which has the best reputation as a brand.

I would probably buy it because it is so cheap, but just not expect it to last long, especially the bulbs. And by the way, this doesn't happen with the HPS bulbs, but with the Halide bulbs you really need to make sure they don't get too hot; put a fan or cooling system on it. It's about 1800 degrees inside the MH bulb normally and 90 psi. Get it too hot, and they can explode and send 2,000+ degree pieces of glass everywhere. Most building products ignite easily at that temperature.

I purchased the air cooled version of this brand (same 400 watts ) as a lightening deal for $112.99 around the black friday sales. I tried it for less than a minute. It does get very hot and its very bright. I was going to mount it on a jump start frame and try to fool mother nature into giving my peppers a head start before setting out ( would I get a crop earlier ?)

Woot rotates through this brand too. I imagine the electric bill will skyrocket!

- Lisa

You guys have gotta try Sunblaster T-5 HO's with Nanoflect reflectors. I've got 5 (2 shining down and 3 shining horizontally) working on an 8' sq ft space and I'm growing snow peas by the dozen, and my Tommy Toe is flowering and producing green fruit in just about a month.

They are relatively cool and I have absolutely no complaints.

[URL]http://www.harrisseeds.com/storefront/s-1037-sun-blaster-t5-fixtures.aspx[/URL]

Charley

Sorry, I cut off my pics before the upload was complete.

Charley

[QUOTE=Salsacharley;385079]You guys have gotta try Sunblaster T-5 HO's with Nanoflect reflectors. I've got 5 (2 shining down and 3 shining horizontally) working on an 8' sq ft space and I'm growing snow peas by the dozen, and my Tommy Toe is flowering and producing green fruit in just about a month.

They are relatively cool and I have absolutely no complaints.

[URL]http://www.harrisseeds.com/storefront/s-1037-sun-blaster-t5-fixtures.aspx[/URL]

Charley[/QUOTE]

Great product.

[QUOTE=greenthumbomaha;385045]I imagine the electric bill will skyrocket!
[/QUOTE]

I don't think it would be that bad, especially not with just 400 watts. My plasma TV draws that much power.

On your electric bill, it will show the price you pay for a "kilowatt-hour" of electricity. That's 1,000 watts for one hour. Mine is about nine cents. I think the most expensive in the US is on the east coast, 20-25 cents.

Divide 1000 by 400, which is 2.5, and that's how many hours a kw hour will run that light. So if your electric rate is close to mine, it's probably about $1 a day if you never shut it off, and 75 cents for an 18-hour day of light.

Thanks all for the constructive feedback. I had planned to use this
in place of my shop lights inside a walk in closet. However, I'm now
a little concerned about the heat issue.
Perhaps the added heat would allow me to move my setup to the garage instead.....

Thanks again!

Lee

I've been looking into LED growlights, but I have found little reliable or useful information beyond pot growers speculations. Does anyone have any experience or insight on affordable units? I like that it appears that the lights can be hung further away from the plants than fluorescent lights, and that they use tiny amounts if electricity, and that they don't waste energy on parts of the spectrum that plants don't or can't use.


There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

[QUOTE=FarmerShawn;385498]I've been looking into LED growlights, but I have found little reliable or useful information beyond pot growers speculations. Does anyone have any experience or insight on affordable units? I like that it appears that the lights can be hung further away from the plants than fluorescent lights, and that they use tiny amounts if electricity, and that they don't waste energy on parts of the spectrum that plants don't or can't use.


There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.[/QUOTE]

LED plant lights are ok for indoor ornamentals that have low light requirements. For photosynthesis, plants require photo energy which we typically measure in Watts. Lumens is not a unit of energy but rather a measure of human perception of brightness. A label on a plant light or bulb that says "equivalent to XXX Watts" is referring to the lumen output of an incandescent bulb of XXX Watts -- not actual Watts consumed or delivered. It requires a significant amount of energy to produce fruit on a plant; e.g., tomatoes. The guideline is 50 W/sq.ft. to 75 W/sq.ft. with a spectral measure of 6400K to 6500K. You can obtain this with the SunBlaster by ganging together 16 to 24 4' long T5HO bulbs per 4' x 4' area.

[QUOTE=FarmerShawn;385498]I've been looking into LED growlights, but I have found little reliable or useful information beyond pot growers speculations. [/quote]
What I have found after a lot of digging is that 95%+ of all LED information out there is at best a misunderstanding and at worst outright fraud. Most of it is just parroting some crap that's floating around. If you go searching at places like this. [url]http://www.lrc.rpi.edu[/url] then you can find some actual information.
[quote]
Does anyone have any experience or insight on affordable units?[/quote] I don't think they exist. [quote]I like that it appears that the lights can be hung further away from the plants than fluorescent lights, and that they use tiny amounts if electricity, and that they don't waste energy on parts of the spectrum that plants don't or can't use.[/quote] Current LEDs have about the same efficiency as fluorescent tubes and thus produce the same amount of heat and use about the same amount of electricity. Where the LED gains is that it's easier to aim the light where you want it. As far a spectrum there are fluorescent tubes that in theory match a plants light needs better than a general purpose lamp.

As far as longevity LEDS still suffer from depreciation of light output worse than fluorescents and even more to the point the design, manufacture and therefore life and efficiency of the ballast in a LED is going to be identical to that of a fluorescent. The only significant difference is that you don't need someway to provide a voltage spike to start them. Other than that both light sources are supplied by constant-current, pulse-width-modulated power supplies.

Short answer fluorescent fixtures are what win when the cost is figured in.

Thanks to Doug for shedding some light on the subject! I for one am confused by it all, especially when I read some of the sites by those pot-growers! I think I'll get some fluorescent shop lights from Home Depot.

Linda

[QUOTE=Labradors2;385698]Thanks to Doug for shedding some light on the subject! I for one am confused by it all, especially when I read some of the sites by those pot-growers! I think I'll get some fluorescent shop lights from Home Depot.

Linda[/QUOTE]

For the same cost, get some fluorescent light tubes that are rated 6400K (Kelvin) or 6500K. Your plants will thank you.

Just curious, what is the benefit of the more expensive T5 fluorescent lighting systems vs the cheap T8 shop lights at Lowes/HD?

I've got the MH system up and running in the garage. Seemed a better
place than my closet where the fluorescent fixtures are. Boy is it bright!

Lee

[QUOTE=Lee;386881]Just curious, what is the benefit of the more expensive T5 fluorescent lighting systems vs the cheap T8 shop lights at Lowes/HD?

I've got the MH system up and running in the garage. Seemed a better
place than my closet where the fluorescent fixtures are. Boy is it bright!

Lee[/QUOTE]

The T5 lights are also available inexpensively at Lowes/HD. I purchased 10 of them there for my garage a few months ago.

The MH light is bright to your eyes but not so for the plants. They are looking for the spectrum of light produced by bulbs rated 6400 or 6500 Kelvin. Your plants will benefit from the warmth of the MH bulb but only a small portion of the light. When comparing the cost of the MH bulbs to the cost of the 6500K fluorescent bulbs on the basis of plant utilization, the 6500K bulbs are far less expensive.

[QUOTE=Labradors2;385698]Thanks to Doug for shedding some light on the subject! I for one am confused by it all, especially when I read some of the sites by those pot-growers! I think I'll get some fluorescent shop lights from Home Depot.

Linda[/QUOTE]


It is confusing for those of us who aren't up to speed on things like lumens and kilowatts! I was always told that the type of lights boiled down to what you wanted to do with them. If it's just start seedlings that will be transplanted out later, then the cheap fluorescents will do the job. If you actually want to grow crops indoors, then you need an actual "grow light" of some type.

I have a chrome shelf unit with a bunch of suspended Home Depot 48" T8 shop lights, and they keep my seedlings perfectly content until it's time for them to go outside.

[QUOTE=Father'sDaughter;386907]I have a chrome shelf unit with a bunch of suspended Home Depot 48" T8 shop lights, and they keep my seedlings perfectly content until it's time for them to go outside.[/QUOTE]

At the Home Depot near my home, the T8 shop light bulbs and the T5 6500K bulbs differ in price by about 20 cents.

[QUOTE=Father'sDaughter;386907]It is confusing for those of us who aren't up to speed on things like lumens and kilowatts![/QUOTE]

Lumens are a measure of human perception of brightness. Watts are a measure of power.

When I was in the photography business we used to have a problem with the colour of the viewing light used to look at colour photos we printed. We ended up using two 4 foot cool white fluorescent tubes plus a 60 watt incandescent lamp. This combination is the closest to daylight we could find.
Apart from the 'volume' of light required I believe the colour is just as important.
Just my 2 cents worth.

I use LEDs and I really don't notice that much difference compared to t5s the LEDs are 190w I think they need more work they donor compare to GPS or mh[IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/11/ezesy3an.jpg[/IMG]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm growing with trulite led ([URL]https://www.truliteled.com/[/URL]).

I'm having somewhat odd results. My plant isn't getting taller but it is growing more and more fruit constantly. I have an approx 10" tall plant with 40+ set tomatoes. It's an indeterminate variety (Abraham Lincoln).

old pic

[URL]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-k3qj5GCZktA/U1J00B3FhaI/AAAAAAAAAD8/psOrrEyNRVg/w426-h589/20140419.JPG[/URL]

One weird thing I noticed is that the plant is putting out 2 fruit sites at each node instead of 1 and it is almost never putting out suckers. Also, the fruit seems to be developing pretty slowly which I presume is because it is trying to develop too many fruits without enough foleage. I probably should have pulled some of the blooms off.

The vendor of this grow light claims that having your light spectrum off by 1% results in 50% reduced yield. Judging by how many flowers this plant is producing; I think they're right.

I think a large majority of LED grow lights do not get good results.

I'm not even doing it right. I screwed up my nutrients and had a significant Ca and Mg deficiency and the plant is still doing its thing.

Time will tell if I get full term fruit. So far it looks like the results will be good.

A little update. I'm not sure if I'm going to get proper fruit with the LED grow light. So far I have some small tomatoes forming but I'm not sure they're going to turn into proper sized tomatoes.

I'm not sure if I screwed up my nutrient solution or if it's a light problem. I just know my tomatoes aren't growing as rapidly as I had expected.

I have never been a fan of LEDs. They sound great on paper, but always seem to fail to deliver.

If you want to experiment with new lights in the future, I would suggest trying both an HPS and a halide at the same time; they don't have to be big. By having both at once, it compensates for each light's deficiencies in spectrum.

i can vouch for the kessil H350 as a grow light, it's staggering the light it puts out for such a small package. i've used the kessil and one of those dark star types and the kessil blows the other away. the black box one was 240w and the kessil was 90w and has a radiator built in to the design to keep it cool. i think before long they will be able to bridge the gap with LED if they keep at it

I think I have too many plants growing under my light. The light doesn't seem to penetrate the canopy and I think I have too many plants shading each other out.

When the plants were small, the ones growing under the light were growing faster than the ones growing outside. Now they're larger plants and I'm having shading issues.

I'm going to move a bunch of them outdoors to see if I can recover but I've had 2 solid weeks of no spare time to maintain my garden. Maybe I'll just be too busy and enough plants will die that I don't have to worry about it.

I was just looking at the same system on amazon the other day. Right now I just have a mirage of an old t5, an old 150 halide and a China import 55-3watt LED. I am ordering bulbs for the halide and t5 next week. Then one day I will either take the LED apart to see if I can change the spectrums on the diodes or what. All my bulbs are 10,000k and above. So after new bulbs, I'll look into a 400-1000watter like the one your looking at. I would just say check with the seller, to be sure the ballast is digital and efficient. Pretty sure a tight(fast) PWM will give the best consistant current. I think the slower PWMs are what knock bulbs out prematurely. Not 100% possitive though.

When you get a halide bulb, Optilume makes a good balanced spectrum grow bulb. Hortilux does too, but they are pricier.

I know digital ballasts perform better on paper, but I have had durability issues with them, especially in a greenhouse environment that can be harsh on sensitive electronics. I don't think they are as tough as the old style heavy magnetic ballasts.

Did you ever decide on a light system? The t5s put out more light than a t8. Where a t8 might be a 40 watt in a 4'. A 4' t5 will be more common as a 54 watt. Also t5s seem to have more precise spectrums, par ratings and nm measurments. To get the exact what your looking for. In my many reef aquariums over the years. I have used halides, t5s and LEDs. Best results being with t5s. So far gardening, My halide seems to have out performed my LED. One is growing tomatoes and one peppers though. My replacement t5 and halide bulbs get here tomorrow. To compare all three. I am thinking a 400 watt halide would do 6-9 flats easily. Even if you had to move a couple here and there. My 150 watt halide maxes out at 2 flats if I turn them, but it can crank out a 6" tomatoe in 3-4 weeks easily. I am still experimenting with my 55x3watt LED fixture.

Eye Hortilux developed a new T5 bulb that has a PAR that is off the chart, its really an amazing bulb. But they also run at around $30 each, and are just now becoming more available.

The Ipower setup is a low quality brand, sure its cheap, but everyone I know that has used ipower has replaced it within a few months claiming the ballast shorts out. if you want to go with HPS or MH I would recommend Nanolux ballasts, with eye hortilux bulbs, and depending on the area you need to light, I would recommend anything from small area's (2x2 to 3x3) an simple wing reflector like the one in the picture, but if you start getting larger area then that, go with something like the sunburst, radiant, or raptor hoods.

LED lights are a hard one, most you find on amazon wont work for squat, only about 2% of all the LED's on the market will actually promote growth. The good ones I have tested personally so far is California Lightworks "Solar Flare (tm)", Kind LED, Envirolux Rail LED systems, and a china made system we are currently testing works great to. (that is less then 1/4 of all the LED's I have tried so far) we are looking at trying the PowerPar LED bulbs in the next month also.

another great alternative for lighting is CFL's but not just any CFL's, most people think the kelvin temp. is what you want to look for with lights, although the kelvin temp does point out the base spectrum's of the bulb, it doesn't tell you what colors it actually produces, (You want to look at the PAR Chart) many CFL's only produce the PAR value to make it easier for the human eye to see. We do use CFL's alot, they are cheaper to maintain, last along time, and work great. our favorites are the Flourowing CFL bulbs (Hydrofarm sponsored brand)