Supporting Hundreds of Tomato Plants
 

This is a slight twist on threads that have been posted already. Lots has been written about how gardeners support 5 of 10, perhaps up to 50 plants. I'm interested in whether there are any economically viable techniques used by growers to support hundreds of tomato plants. Have heard of a "bar" technique where the plants are allowed to drape downward over a horizontal bar set a few feet off the ground, but nothing else. I guess sprawling is the best option, because maintaining the ties on staked plants takes tons of time and buying hundreds of cages, even the concrete reinforcement mesh approach, is quite costly. Looking forward to hearing what ideas people may have on this!!:)

Well, I'm not really sure myself, and this is a great question to ask. However, in my research in the past, I've seen where people were using string dangling from above. This seems to be mostly in greenhouses and honestly I have no clue how it works. I guess I just can't grasp the concept. Now I have also seen where many people use the Florida Weave and are quite happy with the results. It would seem to me that the weave would be much more economical in the long run versus staking or caging.

This was asked last year and I might need some help here but it was the way they do it in Florida. Florida weave maybe.

I've thought of this and I am sure that it is done - you drive two sturdy posts at each end of a row. Run very strong cable between the two (anchor it down to the top of the posts well - I suppose you could use a strong chain and nail it in). Every 3 feet or so, or wherever you will be planting the tomatoes in the row, drop down another sturdy cable or chain, reaching down to where the tomato is - secure the growing tomato to the dropped lines.

Go down to your local recycle place. Find a salvageable swing set or arbor. That ought to do it.

Why do people buy arbors for? To hang heavy vines on of course!

You could also just get the wood from the recycle place and make your own Arbor!

~* Robin

We use 2-4 welded wire, 5' high with T-posts, cut the width of our "small garden" for cherry tomatoes. As they grow we tie them to the wire with bread ties, planted thick, with soaker hoses, some mulch. sell all we can grow by the QT. Roll the wire up at the end of the season--we have 80 large tomato cages (CRW) that are a pain to store and move when mowing. dave

I have about 120 CRW cages which are a pain to store, but they really work. For the rest of the tomatoes I use cattle panel on t-posts - two rows spaced about 30 inches apart, and then weave between the panels with twine. Sounds like what Dave is doing. This system works great for cucumbers, too.

I grow all our cucumbers verticle, in large crw cages at the end of the tomato rows, where I circle the soaker hose in the cucmber mound. The cukes never touch soil, easy to pick, uniform and blemish free. I only plant "Slicemaster Select" from Willhite Seed. Dave

[quote=nctomatoman;127256]I've thought of this and I am sure that it is done - you drive two sturdy posts at each end of a row. Run very strong cable between the two (anchor it down to the top of the posts well - I suppose you could use a strong chain and nail it in). Every 3 feet or so, or wherever you will be planting the tomatoes in the row, drop down another sturdy cable or chain, reaching down to where the tomato is - secure the growing tomato to the dropped lines.[/quote]

Sounds like it could be less expensive than cages, but I'm not clear on whether it would save time over staking. You still have to keep addint ties to secure the growing plant to the hanging cables/chains, right? Also, I have 100 foot rows, so there would have to be some intermediate support for the overhead cable, I guess. If anyone has a picture of this, it would be great to see. Thanks!

I don't know exactly how it is done, but grape growers have systems to support their vines. Maybe that would be a way.

All I've ever seen in large operations was sprawling. My first thought was to use tubular cattle gates and you could weave the tomatoes thru there instead of tying. But that would require a permanent set up and not sure a commercial grower would want that.
So I'm back to sprawling :)

Well for Info purposes see this Photo. I had saved it in my pics, but I had to try to find where it was located at for the Link. I don't know how long it will be there after I post this, sometimes people erase things: [URL]http://www.hdpf.org/photos/Karlen1.jpg[/URL]

Jim Kennard, does the Mittleider Method, This is a link to one of his Tomato Arbor Towers! I do hope the link works for you: [URL]http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=720250[/URL]

~* Robin

Ok, thanks for letting me know this. I'll try to find another link for that particular photo, he has them all over the web, I'll search under the name I saw there.

~* Robin

This picture: [URL]http://sustainable-gardening.subto.us/pics/t-frames-for-growing-tomatoes-vertically.gif[/URL]

This Page, scroll down and read the page: [URL]http://sustainable-gardening.subto.us/tip/tomatoes.html[/URL]

Better View: [URL]http://www.growingtomatoes.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/zoo-toms-beef-sw100-7-15-04.jpg[/URL]

Food for Every One Foundation, Jim Kennard, does the Mittleider Method. Please scroll down and read the page:
[URL]http://www.growingtomatoes.info/[/URL]

~* Robin

[quote=Polar_Lace;127377]Well for Info purposes see this Photo. I had saved it in my pics, but I had to try to find where it was located at for the Link. I don't know how long it will be there after I post this, sometimes people erase things: [URL]http://www.hdpf.org/photos/Karlen1.jpg[/URL]

Jim Kennard, does the Mittleider Method, This is a link to one of his Tomato Arbor Towers! I do hope the link works for you: [URL]http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=720250[/URL]

~* Robin[/quote]

Thanks, Robin. Viewed the first link, very interesting. Still need to tie the tomatoes to the hanging strings as they grow, right? It is a nice setup, would be great for cucumbers or beans, as the tendrils would grab the strings and climb...would tomatoes do the same?

Could not view the second link, because I'm not a paid subscriber on that forum...tempting to join, though. Thanks again for your responses (and everyone else, also!)

Jim

[quote=Polar_Lace;127396]This picture: [URL]http://sustainable-gardening.subto.us/pics/t-frames-for-growing-tomatoes-vertically.gif[/URL]

This Page, scroll down and read the page: [URL]http://sustainable-gardening.subto.us/tip/tomatoes.html[/URL]

Better View: [URL]http://www.growingtomatoes.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/zoo-toms-beef-sw100-7-15-04.jpg[/URL]

Food for Every One Foundation, Jim Kennard, does the Mittleider Method. Please scroll down and read the page:
[URL]http://www.growingtomatoes.info/[/URL]

~* Robin[/quote]


Robin, I like those T Frames. Going vertical allows about twice as many plants in an area. Some work needed up front, but you only get what you put in. Thanks again for the great references. Jim

For a lot of plants + cost efficient, things that come to mind include [URL="http://www.foogod.com/%7Etorquill/barefoot/weave.html"]Florida Weave[/URL], or maybe Cattle Panel or [URL="http://www.nodeer.com/homegarden/hortonova.php4"]hortonova[/URL] mesh supported every few feet with stakes.

A 300ft roll of livestock fencing costs about $100 here, and you can make long trellises (trelli?) (think many many cattle panels end to end). I sink in T posts and then cable tie on wooden 2x2s for added height so the bottom of the fence is about 1.5 ft up and the top is at around 6'. The small plants usually don't need support until they are high enough to tie onto the trellis, but if they do a drop string can be used. The fence does not need to be under tension the way it would if it were a "fence", it just needs to be hung up on the row of posts.

Probably not an option for a large operation, but might be good for a large garden. I have this setup running alongside the house and barn.

[URL]http://www.perrysgreenhouse.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=544[/URL]

I know folks are suggesting all sorts of ways to grow them, but for many years I grew 500-800 plants each summer just by sprawling them, with no problems at all. No way could I have had the time to do otherwise and it sure is a cheap way to go but you have to have the space.

My rows were about 250 ft long and plants within the rows were 3-4 ft apart and there was 5 ft between rows.

Most years a commercial friend would cultivate between the rows and that helped a lot.

No, I had no significant problems that I wouldn't have seen otherwise in terms of diseases, mainly foliage diseases, and I had grown plants in cages before.

And no, I had no significant loss due to fruits touching the ground and rotting. Until someone actually grows plants by sprawling they don't realize that the majority of fruits nestle in the low foliage.

And no I didn't have any slug problems either.

You're in NJ and should be able to do what I and many others do when growing hundreds of plants. Actually all of the commercial growers here in my part of the country, that I know, only grow their tomatoes by sprawling.:)

Check this out:

[URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=127449#post127449[/URL]

dcarch

[quote=robin303;127433][URL]http://www.perrysgreenhouse.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=544[/URL][/quote]

I know this is off topic and I apologize for that, so here goes.

Great! Another gardening forum to indulge in! Woot! My wife says "gee thanks".

Robin,

You have to be a member there to read that post!

~* Robin

Yes, I signed up. hahaha

Here is a leaning trellis system:

[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/avllesarah/2118108107/[/url]

The mesh is supported on horizontal wires that run between
the posts, and pairs of posts are attached at the top with
bailing wire.

[quote=dcarch;127450]Check this out:

[URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=127449#post127449[/URL]

dcarch[/quote]

I did see that, dcharch, and it looks interesting. Thanks for the good idea. I'm looking for the impossible, I guess. No effort, little cost, great results. As the engineers say, Better, Faster, Cheaper...Pick Two. I want all three, but may not get it ;)

[quote=dice;127571]Here is a leaning trellises:

[URL]http://www.flickr.com/photos/avllesarah/2118108107/[/URL]

The mesh is supported on horizontal wires that run between
the posts, and pairs of posts are attached at the top with
bailing wire.[/quote]

Thanks, Dice. As I think you noted on the other message thread, you'd need a little person to harvest the tomatoes under the A frame.:)

Carolyn,

Thanks for your insights...economic reasons suggest sprawling, but I've been against it for the reasons you debunked in your message. This is our first year growing lots of plants (about 500). Previously we did about 30-50, and so could keep up with tying and re-tying to the stakes as they grew. Probably will have to abandon that this year, as this is still a hobby and there won't be enough time. So sprawling may be our best option.

I did notice in your very nice book, that your plants are allowed to sprawl. Though you note here that there is no sun scald with sprawling, what about when the tomatoes contact plastic mulch (perhaps that is what you were referring to)? Also, is there likely to be any difference in yield between sprawling and staking and cages as employed by most people (not the multi-stage cage towers)?

Regards,

Jim

[quote=carolyn137;127437]I know folks are suggesting all sorts of ways to grow them, but for many years I grew 500-800 plants each summer just by sprawling them, with no problems at all. No way could I have had the time to do otherwise and it sure is a cheap way to go but you have to have the space.

My rows were about 250 ft long and plants within the rows were 3-4 ft apart and there was 5 ft between rows.

Most years a commercial friend would cultivate between the rows and that helped a lot.

No, I had no significant problems that I wouldn't have seen otherwise in terms of diseases, mainly foliage diseases, and I had grown plants in cages before.

And no, I had no significant loss due to fruits touching the ground and rotting. Until someone actually grows plants by sprawling they don't realize that the majority of fruits nestle in the low foliage.

And no I didn't have any slug problems either.

You're in NJ and should be able to do what I and many others do when growing hundreds of plants. Actually all of the commercial growers here in my part of the country, that I know, only grow their tomatoes by sprawling.:)[/quote]

I'm pretty sure "the strings from above" technique is the final technique for supporting my plants, it is at least the easiest I've used so far (and I went through most of them : spirals, tie and sticks, tie and cages,...). There is no knotting involved here you just sweep the growing plant around the string (inverse spiral). The tomato is 'hanging in the rope' (like a bad boxer) but since the rope is spiraling it doesn't harm the plant. I tend to use a double string per plant starting from bottom of plant, over the top support down again ending the string in a knot on the other half below; this way you can lower the plant somewhat when it outgrows your greenhouse for instance (you just slide the knot up, lengthening the string - the tomato keeps hanging on to the string, hardly knows it is moved).

Really, "throwing" the top growth around the string is the easiest of techniques I've seen ...