should I mow?
 

Hi All! I'm back with a couple of questions...still consider myself as a newbie since last year was my first garden ever.

I've attached a picture of my garden in its current state. Last year when I finished harvesting, I planted rye grass for my winter cover. I literally haven't touched it since then. As I understand it, I should now turn this grass over into the soil and then I'll be setting out my summer plants around mid May. Because of how tall this grass is, should I mow it first? then turn it over? Will it be okay if I till it under with my tiller or do I have to manually fork it under? (that seems like it will be really hard to do). And lastly, I started my first ever compost pile last year, and I now have some compost that I think is ready to be used. Should I attempt to till some of the compost in at the same time or wait a few weeks to add that?

Sorry if these questions sound stupid.....I'm trying!!!:?!?:

I would mow it first as mowing will stop the grass from winding around your tiller shaft.

I would definitely mow it first to make it easier to turn under.

Some people are no-till and do not like to disturb the soil so they just let the clippings and roots lay on the surface.

Others (like me) till under all of the organic material to mix it with the soil.

There are pros and cons to each method. It's personal preference.

I agree I would mow too.

One vote for mowing it as low as you can and leaving the clippings on top.
The amount of biomass you are gonna get from mixing the clippings in is not worth ripping up the web of life that is building under that soil. Not to mention that as soon as you do this, air is introduced into the soil and oxidizes the humus/organic matter you already have.
But do not fear! The massive root systems that your rye produced are already in your soil and will add plenty of carbon and organic matter to the soil right where they will decompose after you mow (kill) your rye.

There is a big caveat. You may have a challenge down the road when you try to plant into the brown stubble and rootmass below.
It takes time for this stuff to decompose. Don't let the area dry out if it stops raining.
Now would also be a good time to spread your compost on top which will give a shot of microbes to the area to break things down.
If you can get an inch or two down that should completely smother the area and in a few weeks you should be good to plant. The compost will mix in the soil when you dig your planting holes. When all your plants are in, mulch everthing with straw or brown leaves.

Mow it so short that it doesn't thrive, or use a string trimmer. You may not need to till it at all.

You didn't mention what the soil is like under the grass. Have you been soil-building for very long? If your soil is soft, a handful of grass should come right out of the ground when you tug on it. If it doesn't then it has roots in clay. In most of my garden, when I have grass or weeds, I can just pull it up and leave it lay in the spot it was growing, where it will then act as mulch. But if your ground is hard. I'd just mow it, and build up raised beds of good soil or compost over the soil.

Second year garden so i would whipper-snip, (string trimmer) or mow. I no longer till as my till baby is long dead. My beds are raised so not knowing how you plant i would guess your soil may be a bit compacted from walking on it...and being second year.

I did the same my second/third year and really worked on building my soil and compost (20yrs ago). Definitely the right thing to do.

Next thing is to work on your layout and try and keep your planting areas free of compacting and establish a path. Or raise/mound up those planting rows.

Many methods and ways to get to good soil building.

A string trimmer will get right down to the soil level easily.

Thanks for all the great replies! The soil I started with last year I had brought in and was really great soil. I had had it tested right before planting and it was ideal for the garden. All my plants did very well, so I'm confident that I started out with a very good base. Before I planted the rye, I just took a hoe and loosened up everything. I threw the rye out and covered it with straw so the birds wouldn't eat the seed. It grew really fast. Now I am just trying not to mess things up.

So based on yawls' responses, I can and will weed whack the grass down to the lowest level possible. The ground is pretty soft out there, and I could probably just pull it all up by the roots if necessary, but that seems like it would be a lot of work. I'll leave the grass laying on the ground and I'm pretty sure that I have enough mulch to cover everything with at least an inch...maybe two inches. Then I'll plan on planting mid May or so. I'll keep it damp until then.

If I've missed anything, let me know. Otherwise, thanks again! I really appreciate all the great advice here!

Id mow it, then plant into it, then top dress with manure/organic matter. Rye dies in heat so i wouldnt bother tilling it unless you enjoy that sorta thing.

My cover crop looks much like yours except it was wheat, vetch, and crimson clover mixed. I cut it with a string trimmer about 3 weeks ago. Just chopped and dropped the clippings. I put composted manure and compost i made over the winter like you diid on top of it. I plan to dig holes and transplant right into the compost. I have walkways layed out with wooden boards and i stay off of the growing beds. I believe i can go ahead and plant my tomatoes and peppers out soon. Maybe by the first or second week in april.

One thing you'll find is it has a THICH root system.Mow or try to kill it back 4 to 6 weeks before planting so you can break the soil loose.Rye is a great cover crop and I have used it many times.Now it's hairy vetch(90%) and rye(10%).This was my only complaint.:D

Another Mow vote!

Hey tarheelchick, is your cover crop Rye or Ryegrass (Lolium sp.)? If it is ryegrass, you may not kill it by mowing just once. I would either scalp it, mow it more than once, and/or smother it as well. I have seen it be somewhat persistent in my zone 7b/8a area.

Mow it

Is this annual rye or perennial rye grass?
One or the other I sure as heck wouldn't till it in.
The roots broke up the soil for you and the worms will come up and bring the dead plant matter into the soil.
Tomato roots can go through some pretty hard soil anyway.
They dont need loose potting soil to grow in.
Worth

[QUOTE=Worth1;544963]Is this annual rye or perennial rye grass?
One or the other I sure as heck wouldn't till it in.
The roots broke up the soil for you and the worms will come up and bring the dead plant matter into the soil.
Tomato roots can go through some pretty hard soil anyway.
They dont need loose potting soil to grow in.
Worth[/QUOTE]

I agree with just chopping it down and letting it lay. I have have cover cropped for several years, and have never tilled it in. A few things you may want to consider:

1.). Use a string line trimmer (weed eater) if you have one, you can cut it lower to the soil line.

2.). Rake back all the trimmings and spread your compost, then cover with the grass clippings. If you can, cover with mulch of shredded leaves or shredded tree trimming.

3.). I read somewhere to wait until the rye has seed heads on it before you cut it. Theory is that you will get the most biomass of roots and leaves etc. this way.

4.). Next year consider mixing in hairy vetch or Austrian winter pea to up the nitrogen in the soil.

All that being said, there are many ways too do this, experiment as that is how you will discover what works best for you. A lot of great answers in this thread.

I don't till for the reasons Worth and others mentioned, but in my garden, tilling seems to increase the amount of weeds. It will put all the wind blown seeds down into the soil allowing them to germinate.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=creister;545045]I agree with just chopping it down and letting it lay. I have have cover cropped for several years, and have never tilled it in. A few things you may want to consider:

1.). Use a string line trimmer (weed eater) if you have one, you can cut it lower to the soil line.

2.). Rake back all the trimmings and spread your compost, then cover with the grass clippings. If you can, cover with mulch of shredded leaves or shredded tree trimming.

3.). I read somewhere to wait until the rye has seed heads on it before you cut it. Theory is that you will get the most biomass of roots and leaves etc. this way.

4.). Next year consider mixing in hairy vetch or Austrian winter pea to up the nitrogen in the soil.

All that being said, there are many ways too do this, experiment as that is how you will discover what works best for you. A lot of great answers in this thread.

I don't till for the reasons Worth and others mentioned, but in my garden, tilling seems to increase the amount of weeds. It will put all the wind blown seeds down into the soil allowing them to germinate.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]
That's why I went to hairy vetch and even yellow clover.10 years ago when I started to use a cover crop it was winter rye.The root system was a pain to till in.I found anther feed store that carries different type of cover crops.Gave them the size of my garden and they gave me a blend of different crops.Rye was always a small percentage of it.Might go just hairy vetch next fall.I have been told you could use a living mulch of clover white or yellow during the summer and mow between the rows.;)So many choices.

[QUOTE=kchd..;544880]Hey tarheelchick, is your cover crop Rye or Ryegrass (Lolium sp.)? If it is ryegrass, you may not kill it by mowing just once. I would either scalp it, mow it more than once, and/or smother it as well. I have seen it be somewhat persistent in my zone 7b/8a area.[/QUOTE]

It was called "Gulf Annual Ryegrass"
pure seed 97.08%
crop seed 2.00%
Inert matter .80%
weed seed .12%
Noxious weeds: none found

can someone explain to me what that means? And was this the correct thing to plant or no?

[QUOTE=tarheelchick;545080]It was called "Gulf Annual Ryegrass"
pure seed 97.08%
crop seed 2.00%
Inert matter .80%
weed seed .12%
Noxious weeds: none found

can someone explain to me what that means? And was this the correct thing to plant or no?[/QUOTE]

You're cover crop of annual ryegrass is fine. Annual ryegrass (Lolium multiflorum) is often recommended as a cover crop. I'm not sure exactly what hardiness zone you are in, but I suspect it is similar to mine because your ryegrass survived the winter. In colder zones, you'll get winter kill. I think you should definitely cut the grass before any seed heads develop. If you use a weedeater / line trimmer, like others have suggested, you can cut it really close to the soil which will help kill it. Then you can smother it with mulch. I agree with others about not tilling; I'm a no-till believer myself. You will want to kill it, though, because annual ryegrass can sometimes be allelopathic.

[QUOTE=tarheelchick;545080]It was called "Gulf Annual Ryegrass"
pure seed 97.08%
crop seed 2.00%
Inert matter .80%
weed seed .12%
Noxious weeds: none found

can someone explain to me what that means? And was this the correct thing to plant or no?[/QUOTE]


Yes it is the correct grass.
What this means is it is 97.8 rye grass.
some other crop seed was found in it and a wee bit of weed seed.
The inert matter is chaff dust or what ever.
My cousins grow something like 99. something % pure wheat seed.
Worth

Here is what rye grass will do here in where I live.
Sow in the fall let it sprout and mow it in the winter.
If you keep mowing it this delays the seed heads from forming and soon it will git so hot it will die back.
I think I planted closes to 100 pounds of it on 1 acre of land.
Now the stuff is everywhere.
It really has done a good job of smothering out bad weeds.

Here is some more helpful information.
If you are going no till you need to get a good Eye hoe or grape hoe.
I cannot express to you all how much better these are compared to the light weight junk they call a hoe.
This is the best way I can compare them.
Drinking muddy fish water and spring water.
Going no till means you will have to invest in good old school garden tools and it wont be a chore anymore.
Even the little garden space can be shaved down with it in no time without a line trimmer.
Worth

[QUOTE=Worth1;545100]Yes it is the correct grass.
What this means is it is 97.8 rye grass.
some other crop seed was found in it and a wee bit of weed seed.
The inert matter is chaff dust or what ever.
My cousins grow something like 99. something % pure wheat seed.
Worth

Here is what rye grass will do here in where I live.
Sow in the fall let it sprout and mow it in the winter.
If you keep mowing it this delays the seed heads from forming and soon it will git so hot it will die back.
I think I planted closes to 100 pounds of it on 1 acre of land.
Now the stuff is everywhere.
It really has done a good job of smothering out bad weeds.

Here is some more helpful information.
If you are going no till you need to get a good Eye hoe or grape hoe.
I cannot express to you all how much better these are compared to the light weight junk they call a hoe.
This is the best way I can compare them.
Drinking muddy fish water and spring water.
Going no till means you will have to invest in good old school garden tools and it wont be a chore anymore.
Even the little garden space can be shaved down with it in no time without a line trimmer.
Worth[/QUOTE]

Thanks Worth! I'm off to find a new hoe! Any particular name brands you can recommend?

[QUOTE=tarheelchick;545102]Thanks Worth! I'm off to find a new hoe! Any particular name brands you can recommend?[/QUOTE]


Lots of luck finding one they are expensive and therefor not available in most stores.
look on line for one or if you get lucky you can fine one at a good hardware store.
Then you will have to fit the handle or find someone to do it.
Seymour makes them they are now made in china but they are still good.

Here is another company that makes them.
[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjag6OWytnLAhUHNiYKHbFzCzAQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easydigging.com%2Ftools%2Fbellotto.html&usg=AFQjCNEUTKRrxjKwPbVNWWAQeT78VlfAJQ[/url]

Lehmans sells them also.

[url]http://non-electric.lehmans.com/search?p=R&srid=S1-4SEAP&lbc=lehmans&w=Grape%20Hoe&url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.lehmans.com%2fp-2571.aspx&rk=1&uid=317164675&sid=2&ts=custom&champclick=1&rsc=8ip6MHzcdsMJCmWj&method=and&isort=score&view=list[/url]

Here is yet another video.
[url]https://youtu.be/Du01MMy8S4E[/url]

[QUOTE=Worth1;545115]Lehmans sells them also.

[url]http://non-electric.lehmans.com/search?p=R&srid=S1-4SEAP&lbc=lehmans&w=Grape%20Hoe&url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.lehmans.com%2fp-2571.aspx&rk=1&uid=317164675&sid=2&ts=custom&champclick=1&rsc=8ip6MHzcdsMJCmWj&method=and&isort=score&view=list[/url][/QUOTE]

My favorite hardware store in the middle of Amish country Worth.Love to go there about 50 miles from my house.:D

Tarheel chick... don't hesitate to use the lehmans site. I live fairly close (like maybe 20 minues) and I have never bought anything that was [I]un[/I]quality ( i know this isn't a real word, but it is the truth) from them. There is nothing in their store that is junk.

I first learned about Lehman's looking for old kerosene lamps to go on a boat.
I wanted everything to be to period.
I dont know if it was them or another site that had gimbaled lamps for ships.

A gimbal is a device that makes something stay upright no matter the tilt the it is attached to.

I think it was Vermont lanterns that sold them and I know a guy the bought some and put them in his house along the walls encase the power went out.
Which is quite often in New Hampshire in the winter and for a week or so sometimes.
Here is a gimbal lantern and what was on ships of old off topic but a nice recess so the speak.:)
Worth.

[IMG]http://www.vermontlanterns.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/prod-images/vl_9947_mounted-SB.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Worth1;545425]I first learned about Lehman's looking for old kerosene lamps to go on a boat.
I wanted everything to be to period.
I dont know if it was them or another site that had gimbaled lamps for ships.

A gimbal is a device that makes something stay upright no matter the tilt the it is attached to.

I think it was Vermont lanterns that sold them and I know a guy the bought some and put them in his house along the walls encase the power went out.
Which is quite often in New Hampshire in the winter and for a week or so sometimes.
Here is a gimbal lantern and what was on ships of old off topic but a nice recess so the speak.:)
Worth.

[IMG]http://www.vermontlanterns.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/prod-images/vl_9947_mounted-SB.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I get down there a couple times a summer.They have old style appliances but are rather pricey.They do carry high end things.We have the largest Amish community in the country.Kidron is in the middle of Holmes county where this community is.Very hilly but beautiful part of Ohio.

We have a hardware store in Austin I go to for some things and it is where I bought my eye hoe.
A true Italian grape hoe has a curved handle like a single bitted axe or a hatchet.
What I did when I was looking at the selection of handles was to find one with a curve and had the grain running the right direction.
Some lady about my age told me I sure was being picky so I explained to her what I was doing and why.
Here is an example of proper grain direction for an ax.
If you will look at the end the axe will be laying flat and the end grain on the handle is running the same way as the impact of the load on the handle.
When setting any handle this should be done in the same direction or the handle will soon break.

Okay so in the pictuer left is proper and right isn't proper and this handle was made wrong and is weak.
The first thing you want to do is get rid of the cheap varnish they put on the wood handle if is has it and oil it instead several times.

Worth.
[IMG]https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/recreational_trails/publications/fs_publications/99232823/fig037.jpg[/IMG]