Worst Ever Fall Bean Crop
 

I have grown Rattlesnake Pole, Fortex Cross Pole and Jade II Bush beans for a while now with what I thought was quite a bit of success. I garden in Central FL and grow a Spring Crop and Fall Crop. My Fall Crop this year is awful. I will include a picture of Rattlesnakes followed by Fortex Cross and last Jade II bush. I am harvesting about 1/4 of the beans that I did last Fall. I am not doing anything different and am at a bit of a loss for the huge change for the worse. I grow the Rattlesnakes in native sandy soil and the Fortex Cross and Jade II beans in Raised Beds filled with compost. The one thing that all have in common is the season was preceded by a long period of above average rainfall. We had the rainiest Spring right into early August that I can remember. I'm wondering if this could have washed something out of the soil and caused the problem. However, other vegetables Broccoli, Tomatoes, Kale and Peppers are preforming as usual. I would like very much to hear some suggestions. Thanks Larry

Saw the reply in the Florida thread about beans.I gave up here in south Fl trying bean production.I tried Favas,Gigandes and a assortment of the Chinese Long beans.After reading up through countless sites the culprit was pollen clumping for high humidity periods.Then when I changed germination/growth to a later dryer time,then when I finally got some pods the higher humidity invited a fungus/ mold and I basically gave up at that point.

Eye-opening the difficulties in regions I'd thought to be climate perfect for growing things. Perfect weather and then you get things like nematodes and pollen clumping, or like fruit flies so bad in Hawaii you can hardly grow full size tomatoes.

[QUOTE=kurt;511267]Saw the reply in the Florida thread about beans.I gave up here in south Fl trying bean production.I tried Favas,Gigandes and a assortment of the Chinese Long beans.After reading up through countless sites the culprit was pollen clumping for high humidity periods.Then when I changed germination/growth to a later dryer time,then when I finally got some pods the higher humidity invited a fungus/ mold and I basically gave up at that point.[/QUOTE]

The easiest snap bean I have grown is Rattlesnake Pole beans, which generally do fairly well in the heat. However, in July and August about the only beans that work here in Central Florida are Limas and Cowpeas. I grew Zipper Creme cowpeas this summer successfully in native soil. Next summer I hope to give Limas a try.
Larry

I wonder if the varieties of beans planted in the fall should be different varieties than those planted in the spring?

[QUOTE=Ricky Shaw;511270]Eye-opening the difficulties in regions I'd thought to be climate perfect for growing things. Perfect weather and then you get things like nematodes and pollen clumping, or like fruit flies so bad in Hawaii you can hardly grow full size tomatoes.[/QUOTE]

Plus, add to that soil which is primarily sand and the heat, growing vegetables in Central Florida can be a bit challenging. Most give up on the soil and grow is some sort of container. Many do quite well with soil-less growing media in self watering containers.
Larry

[QUOTE=joseph;511300]I wonder if the varieties of beans planted in the fall should be different varieties than those planted in the spring?[/QUOTE]
I had to think about that a bit, but I think the answer is no. Most short to medium maturing vegetables that do well here in the spring also do well in fall. The seasons are though somewhat different. Spring season starts cool and ends hot with most of the rain coming late in the season. While the Fall season is opposite, starting hot and ending cool with most of the rain coming early in the season. For the past few seasons I have had very good success growing Rattlesnake Pole beans in native soil. The native soil here is primarily sand, said to be 70% sand and 30% silt. A mineral soil with very little organic matter. Other varieties such as Blue Lake do very poorly in it but normally Rattlesnake thrives.
In my raised beds containing compost I have tried several varieties of bush beans but Jade II, which I have now grown for several seasons, does better than others, such as Contender, Provider and Blue Lake.
But this year after rains more typical of the tropics than Central Florida everything seems to have changed for the worse.
After a bit of research a came across an article stating: "Nutrient leaching.
The soils of Florida are generally sandy with low cation exchange capacity (CEC)
values. This means that the soil does not have the ability to hold on to many of the
nutrients, allowing them to be easily leached out. ... six inches of water can leach 80 % of applied nitrogen, 100 % of applied potassium, 100 % of sulfate-sulfur and 79 % of applied boron. Calcium (48% loss), magnesium (32%) and manganese (40 %)"
I plan to get complete soil tests in both native soil and raised beds and hope that provides some guidance on how to proceed.
I take interest in reading your posts related to growing varieties in short seasons and a cold environment. I especially am interested the work you and Fusion_power are doing related to frost tolerant tomatoes. With a greater degree of frost tolerance I could potentially grow more successfully Fall tomatoes into December and January.
Keep up the good work and Thanks for your interest. Larry

My response to your original question: your beans are diseased.

[QUOTE=dustdevil;511378]My response to your original question: your beans are diseased.[/QUOTE]

Right.:)

My opinion is it is the wet weather and beans have their own demons to deal with.
Mine were doing it and then the rain stopped.
I cut out the bad leaves and the darn things came out of it.
Worth

[QUOTE=dustdevil;511378]My response to your original question: your beans are diseased.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Worth1;511386]Right.:)
My opinion is it is the wet weather and beans have their own demons to deal with.
Mine were doing it and then the rain stopped.
I cut out the bad leaves and the darn things came out of it.
Worth[/QUOTE]

Diseased Beans:? I don't really have much experience with plant diseases. Fungal disease such as early blight are common here in Central Florida. I have some Agri-Fos systemic fungicide. Do you suppose spraying that would be a good place to start? I have 1/2 a bed of Jade II beans just now starting to form there first tiny beans and they are probably worth trying to save.
Thanks, Larry

Hello again. I suggest you send a copy of these photos to your county ag agent with your questions. The agent will be best qualified to give you advice for your area. There is no charge unless testing is done.

This site is better than the Florida site.
Worth
[URL="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwi3mKCJ9e_IAhWDGT4KHYz8Bqk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.extension.umn.edu%2Fgarden%2Fyard-garden%2Fvegetables%2Fedible-bean-disease-and-disorder-identification%2F&usg=AFQjCNGavaFkvxKYI4q8h-6_4_afDa4e4Q"]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwi3mKCJ9e_IAhWDGT4KHYz8Bqk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.extension.umn.edu%2Fgarden%2Fyard-garden%2Fvegetables%2Fedible-bean-disease-and-disorder-identification%2F&usg=AFQjCNGavaFkvxKYI4q8h-6_4_afDa4e4Q[/URL]

I'm going for the Antheacnose at the bottom of the page maybe.
[B]
[/B]

This may be a controversial statement, but I never would treat edibles with systemic chemicals. :no:

The way those work is by reaching all parts of the plant, including the ones you intend to eat. :dizzy:

[QUOTE=Worth1;511494]This site is better than the Florida site.
Worth
I'm going for the Antheacnose at the bottom of the page maybe.
[B]
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link and the suggestion. I read all these bacterial and fungus diseases and nothing really seems to match up.
Many talk about water soaked spots on the bean that collapse. I don't see that on my beans. The rattlesnake and jade ii beans look more or less as normal, probably a bit smaller and vastly fewer of them.
Only the Provider has a strange mark on the pod. On both sides of the pods, but not around the seem on top or bottom, there is a long solid almost purple area. But it doesn't look sunken or water soaked.
And for the plants them selves, the bush beans, jade ii and provider germinated fine, grew fine and looked great, blossomed fine but that is when the problem begins. They produce far fewer beans. The jade manages to produce beans for 2 pickings first picking bad but second awful. Buy the time of the second picking the jade vines look like they normally would on the seventh picking. Old, turning brown and dying.
the Providers pretty much the same except they appear to be dying the time of the first picking and the beans pods have the large purplish/brown patch on both sides of the pod.
Rattlesnake pole beans are a bit different story. They start off on the weak side and never grown exactly as normal. I've picked them twice and the number of beans is hugely sub par. Many of the vines are now dead, dying or just weak. At this time they should be doing great and have 3 or 4 more pickings left. Also the few beans that I get look pretty much as normal.
The picture of the Jade II bush beans didn't look bad when I took it, but 2 or 3 days when I was ready to pick for the second time the plants looked awful, some yellowing and lot of brown leave or large brown spots. What they would normally look like early December.
Based on above what do you think?
I will probably do as Dustdevil says and try to get a response from the county extension service.
Thanks a bunch, Larry :?

[QUOTE=PhilaGardener;511507]This may be a controversial statement, but I never would treat edibles with systemic chemicals. :no:
The way those work is by reaching all parts of the plant, including the ones you intend to eat. :dizzy:[/QUOTE]
I am interested in what you have to say. Agri-Fos
Label says: Active Ingrediantes: Mono and d-potasium salts of Phosphorous Acid
I read where it was said to be organic but I am not sure.
Any ideas? Larry

A little more info on my bean problem. First I would like to comment to the root condition of two of the varieties. I pulled some Provider plants and they didn't really have many roots. Then I pulled some Jade II and there roots were in fine condition. I had inoculated all the bean seeds I planted.
The Jade II roots were full of the nodules one would hope to see. I guessing what ever my problem is it isn't affecting the roots.
However, one of the things that all the varieties have in common is very poor bean production.
The first 2 pictures are from my Rattlesnake pole beans.
The next picture is of Rattlesnake beans which look more or less normal.
The final picture is of Provider beans which have a large purple/brownish spot on the
sides.

I think your problem may be gray mold. I had it a couple of years ago in my bush beans when we had a lot of rain. Since then I have gone ahead and sprayed my beans with a copper fungicide whenever I am spraying my tomatoes and I also spray them with the dilute bleach spray whenever I see early symptoms of gray mold. Maybe it is something else but I would give it a try. You might also want to start using a liquid fertilizer like Texas Tomato Food every few weeks since your soil is even more sandy than mine. I have found it increases production greatly.

I have had the most success with fall beans using Maxibel.

Bill

[QUOTE=joseph;511300]I wonder if the varieties of beans planted in the fall should be different varieties than those planted in the spring?[/QUOTE]
Different varieties may have some merit. After our short winter nematode population is said to be in decline and therefore varieties of beans with no resistance to nematodes are less risky in the spring but after the heat of summer the nematodes are said to be numerous in the fall and therefore a nematode resistant variety may be a better bet in the fall.
Larry

[QUOTE=b54red;511684]I think your problem may be gray mold. I had it a couple of years ago in my bush beans when we had a lot of rain. Since then I have gone ahead and sprayed my beans with a copper fungicide whenever I am spraying my tomatoes and I also spray them with the dilute bleach spray whenever I see early symptoms of gray mold. Maybe it is something else but I would give it a try. You might also want to start using a liquid fertilizer like Texas Tomato Food every few weeks since your soil is even more sandy than mine. I have found it increases production greatly.
I have had the most success with fall beans using Maxibel.
Bill[/QUOTE]
I went to the extension agency today with bags of leaves, bags of plants and bags of bean pods. Their investigation was that yes there was mold on the leaves, there was rust on the provider beans pods but not so much on the jades which are said to be resistant to rust and there was no rust of the rattlesnake pods indicating that they may be resistant to rust. They thought a fungicide should be used on my next bean crop. Also, what I thought was nitrogen nodules on the jades roots they said were a result of nematodes. While the Providers hardly had any roots, so they obviously have no resistance to root knot nematodes. They also said there were aphids on the leaves.
So I guess I need to have a program to spray a fungicide, spray for aphids and pay better attention to selection of bean varieties which offer some resistance to nematodes, especially in the fall. Unfortunately there doesn't seem much up to date information of beans which are resistant to nematodes.
Thanks to all for your help, I truly appreciate it.
Larry

[QUOTE=Zone9b;511515]I am interested in what you have to say. Agri-Fos
Label says: Active Ingrediantes: Mono and d-potasium salts of Phosphorous Acid
I read where it was said to be organic but I am not sure.
Any ideas? Larry[/QUOTE]

Organic pesticides are not necessarily less toxic to the farmer than non-organic ones. The active ingredient you mention, however, is a mildly acidic salt and is pretty innocuous to mammals like us.

[QUOTE=Darren Abbey;511817]Organic pesticides are not necessarily less toxic to the farmer than non-organic ones. The active ingredient you mention, however, is a mildly acidic salt and is pretty innocuous to mammals like us.[/QUOTE]

The [URL="http://www.agbio-inc.com/agri-fos-label.html"]label[/URL] for the product does note that use on Legumes and most other vegetables is not permitted in California, which has some of the more cautious regulations on agrichemical use. I am not sure about the basis for that listing.

That said, I agree that there are plenty of more toxic alternatives.

[QUOTE=Darren Abbey;511817]Organic pesticides are not necessarily less toxic to the farmer than non-organic ones. The active ingredient you mention, however, is a mildly acidic salt and is pretty innocuous to mammals like us.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PhilaGardener;511836]The [URL="http://www.agbio-inc.com/agri-fos-label.html"]label[/URL] for the product does note that use on Legumes and most other vegetables is not permitted in California, which has some of the more cautious regulations on agrichemical use. I am not sure about the basis for that listing.
That said, I agree that there are plenty of more toxic alternatives.[/QUOTE]
Thanks much for the information. Many gardeners here in Florida use some form of Copper for a fungicide. I was looking at Copper Sulfate. What do you think?
Thanks, Larry

When you said you had nitrogen nodules on your bean roots I was skeptical but didn't want to say anything not wanting to insult.
I suspected nematodes and you said you were going to take them to the experts I knew the truth would come out one way or the other.

If you google nematodes on bean roots you will get pictures of nitrogen nodules and nematodes.
If you do the same for nitrogen nodules you will get the same results.:lol:

A little info about those nitrogen fixing plants they do it for themselves not other plants.
If one is allowed to go to full maturity and produce seed the nitrogen is greatly used up.

If crimson clover is sown on an acre of land and tilled under or mowed right before it goes to seed it will produce 100 pounds of nitrogen.
If you let it go to seed it will not do this.

Worth

[QUOTE=joseph;511300]I wonder if the varieties of beans planted in the fall should be different varieties than those planted in the spring?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Worth1;511874]When you said you had nitrogen nodules on your bean roots I was skeptical but didn't want to say anything not wanting to insult.
I suspected nematodes and you said you were going to take them to the experts I knew the truth would come out one way or the other.
If you google nematodes on bean roots you will get pictures of nitrogen nodules and nematodes.
If you do the same for nitrogen nodules you will get the same results.:lol:
A little info about those nitrogen fixing plants they do it for themselves not other plants.
If one is allowed to go to full maturity and produce seed the nitrogen is greatly used up.
If crimson clover is sown on an acre of land and tilled under or mowed right before it goes to seed it will produce 100 pounds of nitrogen.
If you let it go to seed it will not do this.
Worth[/QUOTE]

To make matters worse, it seems not apparent if any varieties of Green Beans are capable of resistance to nematodes in the fall season when soil temperatures are still high. I take the liberty to quote from a University of Florida article for whicI provide a link after the quote.
"Many nematode-resistant snap bean cultivars have been developed, but the only resistance incorporated into these beans is for the nematode Meloidogyne incognita. The nature of the resistance is a delay in nematode development rather than reduced ability of the nematode to penetrate the plant root. For many resistant cultivars (including Nemasnap, Kabanima, P.I. 313709, Alabama no. 1, Carioc, Manoa Wonder, BAT 1297, A55, A56, A322, A439 and AB 136), resistance is lost when soil temperatures exceed 80–85°F (27–29°C). Use of these resistant varieties may be limited to the spring crop, when soil temperatures are lower. Resistant cultivars for which heat instability is unknown include Tendergreen, Tenderpod, Saginaw, Wingard Wonder, Rico 23, P.I. 165435, and Alabama 2, 8 and 19, many of which are old varieties, or breeding lines that may be low yielding, horticulturally unacceptable (i.e., developed for home garden), and/or commercially unavailable.56, 60"
[URL="http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pi032"]http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pi032[/URL]
Unlike F1 tomato varieties, where there are numerous varieties with resistance to nematodes and many other pathogens, it appears that bean varieties with this resistance are much fewer. I'm guessing that the tomato market is a much more lucrative market than the bean market, thus the bean area attracts fewer breeders to the area or maybe creating pathogen resistant bean varieties is just more difficult.
Maybe Joseph or one of the other many very knowledgeable plant breeders, growers or gardeners here on Tomatoville could comment of this?
Thanks, Larry

[QUOTE=Zone9b;511864]Thanks much for the information. Many gardeners here in Florida use some form of Copper for a fungicide. I was looking at Copper Sulfate. What do you think?
Thanks, Larry[/QUOTE]

Copper Sulfate is used to poison tree stumps in order to prevent shoots. I would be careful about dosage and cumulative buildup in the soil.

My story is similar but I didn't take any samples in to be evaluated. My bean crop was a complete failure much to my dismay as I love green beans as a side dish. I requested easy to grow beans in last years swap and Gary sent a generous assortment. I didn't get a single bean except for one pole bean late in the season. Everything was slow to come up and none of the bushes or vines looked healthy and green. I had just started planting in a new raised bed with sandy native soil topped in bagged organic cow manure. I attributed the poor performance to the bed being too hot, but the leaves looked like the second photo with the grey mold. Out of maybe 20 varieties, the only producer was a store bought package of Fordhook Lima Beans and it was very late to produce.

The tomatoes in the next raised bed did fine in the same soil mix. I'll be rotating tomatoes into this bed next season. I put lots of leaf mulch on top and some grass too just before the weather tanked. I would like to avoid any chemicals. I hope the bed will improve over the winter.

- Lisa

[QUOTE=greenthumbomaha;514243]My story is similar but I didn't take any samples in to be evaluated. My bean crop was a complete failure much to my dismay as I love green beans as a side dish. I requested easy to grow beans in last years swap and Gary sent a generous assortment. I didn't get a single bean except for one pole bean late in the season. Everything was slow to come up and none of the bushes or vines looked healthy and green. I had just started planting in a new raised bed with sandy native soil topped in bagged organic cow manure. I attributed the poor performance to the bed being too hot, but the leaves looked like the second photo with the grey mold. Out of maybe 20 varieties, the only producer was a store bought package of Fordhook Lima Beans and it was very late to produce.
The tomatoes in the next raised bed did fine in the same soil mix. I'll be rotating tomatoes into this bed next season. I put lots of leaf mulch on top and some grass too just before the weather tanked. I would like to avoid any chemicals. I hope the bed will improve over the winter.
- Lisa[/QUOTE]
Enjoyed reading your post. Normally as the summer warms up here in Central Florida Lima beans do better than snap beans. Limas here are often referred to as Butter Beans or Butter Peas. They also do much better here in the native soil than most snap beans, meaning they are more tolerant of poor sandy soil.
At this time, I would normally still be harvesting fall pole and bush snap beans but this year I just put them out of their misery and pulled them.
I have somewhat of a plan for the coming spring season. I hope to begin by getting a soil test for my native soil garden and one from one of my compost raised beds. Depending on that I will either add lime or use an acidifier. I intend on adding cow manure compost and kelp meal to my native soil and kelp meal and more new compost to my raised beds. I will use agri-fos fungicide early and possibly a mild pesticide if it appears necessary.
Also, I hope to try some new bush bean varieties.. I will try Boone bush beans and Lewis bush beans which appear to be about as disease resistant as any variety. I will also plant instead of my usual Jade II bush bean, the original Jade bush bean. It appears that the original Jade is more disease resistant than Jade II. For a pole bean I will continue to use Rattlesnake in the native soil and I will try for the first time Kentucky Wonder pole beans in compost raised beds.
I also love eating garden snap beans but for now I will have to be happy with Costco organic green beans.
Thanks for your interest and good luck next season,
Larry

My spring bean crop is finished. Overall the results were OK. I picked enough beans to consume and freeze 52 quarts. Most of my beans were produced in a single raised bed 4 1/2' x 13’10 ½” x 10” high. I planted 2 snap bean bush varieties both which appeared to be highly disease resistant. Espada: F1, 56 days, 6” pod, medium green, sieve size 75% 4 25% 3, white seeds
Crockett : OP, 58-60 days, very dark green, sieve size 2-3, pod 4 1/2-5 1/2”, white seeds
I picked Espada 6 times and Crockett 5 times. I considered both productive but Espada a bit more productive than Crockett. For me I didn't notice a great deal of difference in the taste, both
being good but not in the league with Jade II or Fortex-Cross. When I pulled the plants I noticed that both had adequate roots but both also showed some nematode activity but apparently not significant enough to seriously reduce bean production.
I plan to grow both varieties again in the fall, which could be a serious test of their disease resistance. This being that disease pressure on beans, tomatoes and peppers seems much greater in the fall than in the spring, here in Central Florida.
This spring I also grew the following pole bean varieties. Grandma Roberts TriColor, Grandma Roberts Purple pole, Blue Marbut, Tobacco Worm, and Rattlesnake.
Of these Rattlesnake and Grandma Roberts Purple Pole did fairly well and I will grow again. Blue Marbut also did ok but I am looking for a bit more productive pole bean.
I hope to give Alabama #1 a try in the fall and possibly a couple of other varieties.
Sometimes I wonder whether I should grow significantly less pole beans and concentrate more on bush beans because of what appears to be greater availability of disease resistant bush varieties than pole varieties. Also, I am faced with a fair amount of pole maintenance. A few weeks back I had 2 days of significant winds when the poles were loaded with bean plants. To say the least it didn't do my pole structures much good.
Larry

Glad this year was better!

My beans did better here in hot, humid Delaware when I sprayed them with a dilute Neem solution everyday, either morning or evening.