Wrong seed again!
 

For the second year in a row, I have a problem with seed not being what I ordered. last year, a packet of green zebra did not produce a single GZ, but rather an assortment of tomatoes I didn't order. This year, I ordered most of my seed from different sources, but decided to give this same vendor another chance. They carried Goldman's Italian American, which I was keen to try, so I ordered that, and another variety. Last week, I was pleased to notice a nice green tomato about the size if a child's fist that was hippy and puckered, as a Goldman's should be. This week, I realized I hadn't seen any others, so began to check the labels. Sure enough, another tomato labeled Goldman's is producing a round, smooth tomato. So, that's it for me with this company, who shall remain nameless. I know errors happen, and I've lived long enough to know I could make a mistake, but I am meticulous in my planting, and label each seed cell as I plant a packet, and don't open another packet until the first is finished. The label follows the plant all the way to the garden.

I did let them know, and they've offered to replace the seed or give me my money back, but I don't care about that. No way I'm going to have all the Goldman's I wanted this year.

So, the reason for this thread is not just to complain, but note that this seems to be a common problem. I see threads here and on other forums all the time complaining about wrong seed. How does this happen so frequently? I know some of you are seed vendors, and I was wondering what quality control you use to prevent this, and why it seems so common?

So, the reason for this thread is not just to complain, but note that this seems to be a common problem. I see threads here and on other forums all the time complaining about wrong seed. How does this happen so frequently? I know some of you are seed vendors, and I was wondering what quality control you use to prevent this, and why it seems so common?

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Yes, it is very common and will continue to be so.

NO company selling OP varieties is immune to this problem.

Seeds offered can be produced by the company, or bought off the shelf from a wholesaler or seed production subcontracted out.

Some companies do one of the above or a combo of the above.

Quality control is a sticky issue. There are several companies that do NO growing at all on their own. They offer seeds received in one of the ways above. So they don't know if there's a problem until a client does what a client should do and that's contct the company to let them know there's a problem.

If a company is doing most of their own seed production, or getting their seed in ANY manner, then it would be optimal for them to grow out one year in advance what they plan to list. But is that reasonable? I don't think so b'c with just minor cross pollination in a seed batch hundreds of plants would have to be grown out to even find those x pollinated seeds.

This I know b'c I've been in that situation, either with seeds I offer in my free seed offer here or even with a few varieties I've listed in the SSE YEarbooks since 1990.

I don't expect ANY company to grow out hundreds of plants to detect minor cross pollination; they couldn't stay in business if they did.

I'm grateful that there are so many smaller family owned seed companies that do make available so many OP varieties. They can't bag blossoms, too many plants to do so and few have the acreage to do geographic isolation.

I understand why you're upset, I really do, but I can't envision a situation where OP seeds for every single variety offered commercially will be pure seed, I just can't.

I always read the seed posts in case they apply to my own purchases and I can plan around potential problems. I planted Goldmans too.............

I understand how it happens, but it seems to me to be happening way too often. With no more than I plant, I am really bugged at wrong seeds. Why I plant is to see what a particular plant does, because I have never seen it before. I am limited to 40 plants this year 4 of them are to compare seed from two wrong ones last year to new seed of what they are supposed to be.
If they are in the business, they should work at it to be the best possible. While I am at it; it sure would be nice if they did not just copy the description, some time wrong, from some one else. There are cases where they don't even have the det/indet correct.

Carolyn, thanks for your input. I hadn't really considered cross pollination, which of course can be a problem. I was rather thinking of handling and packaging problems, but I can see that cross pollination could be a major factor...

[quote=puzzley;172848]Carolyn, thanks for your input. I hadn't really considered cross pollination, which of course can be a problem. I was rather thinking of handling and packaging problems, but I can see that cross pollination could be a major factor...[/quote]

Several years in a row I did a WRONG VARIETIES thread at GW and I learned a number of things.

First, that many folks will not report back to a seed supplier when they get a wrong variety or a variety with stray seeds, etc., so I offered to do the reporting for those who wouldn't. But that met with resistance by some seed companmy owners b'c they wanted to check their records to be sure that the person reporting had indeed bought the seeds from them. More than once a person said they got the seeds from X company when indeed they were from Y company.

Second, that there are some seed companies that are much better than others at offering pure seeds. I've follwed this issue of seed purity with both purchased and traded seed since about 1990 at several different message sites and that's before many of the companies we have now were even in existance.

One company in that GW thread got bad comments on seed germination and indeed they were using much older seed and that problem was fixed and since then I've not heard one peep about seed viability.

Another company at that time had over 70 varieties that were reported as being wrong, etc., and many but not all of those varieties were deleted from their list. And when one person reported two bad varieties they were offered two new packs of the same seeds. Sigh.

Other companies change the names of varieties to make it look like they have something rare, exclusive, etc.

I haven't looked in a while but I think most of the companies listed in the seed list in the sticky at the top of this Forum are OK.

I've recieved some mix ups before from seed vendors as well. However, if it is wrong, I grow it out and see what I get. Kind of like not finding out the sex of the baby before it is born. I can also relate to the disappointment of not getting the maters you were hoping for. The few times this has happened, I just think I have the next greatest cross pollination. However, the few I've had, that were mix ups, weren't worth growing again.

I am still really, really new at growing seedlings from seeds so I can't say I have experienced any difficulty with mislabeled or cross pollinated seed. I have experienced a problem ordering a number of varieties from a single vendor and all but one of the varieties germinated fine. The exception would not germinate at all. My immediate response was to blame the vendor for selling sterile seed. Assuming all the conditions were the same for all the varieties (which they were). what are some other common conditions which would prevent one variety from germinating?

Ted

Puzzley, the main reason for this forum is to [B]Identify[/B] Seed vendors whether they be good or bad and if bad identify the problems the vendor has whether it be late shipping, payment issues or in your case varieties that do not grow true to name. Other people may have had the same problem with the same vendor but just blew it off. By posting the vendor's name others might jump in who had the same problem with the vendor and in your case two years in a row it might be better to name the vendor as a service to our other members. Ami

[quote=amideutch;181817]Puzzley, the main reason for this forum is to [B]Identify[/B] Seed vendors whether they be good or bad and if bad identify the problems the vendor has whether it be late shipping, payment issues or in your case varieties that do not grow true to name. Other people may have had the same problem with the same vendor but just blew it off. By posting the vendor's name others might jump in who had the same problem with the vendor and in your case two years in a row it might be better to name the vendor as a service to our other members. Ami[/quote]

Well put and my exact thoughts on this topic, as well. 8-)

The elephant in the room: Which seed vendor?

I'm guessing we're talking about Baker Creek?

[quote=puzzley;172818]
I did let them know, and they've offered to replace the seed or give me my money back, but I don't care about that. No way I'm going to have all the Goldman's I wanted this year.

So, the reason for this thread is not just to complain, but note that this seems to be a common problem. I see threads here and on other forums all the time complaining about wrong seed. How does this happen so frequently? I know some of you are seed vendors, and I was wondering what quality control you use to prevent this, and why it seems so common?[/quote]

Carolyn did cover many of the reasons why there are mistakes, and I agree with her. I do have to add that with many reputable companies thankfully the problems are far and few between. Also, it good that the company offered seeds or a refund. There are too many companies out there that do not respond back to customer complaints.
Now I do have a post where I say a company gave me the wrong seeds, but from that company, I ordered many packets over different years and that was the only mistake. So when people complain of an error, you might have to take into account a very small error rate over all.
It is possible to be the unlucky recipient of 2 errors from a company when their overall rate is very low. Working in customer related jobs for a long time, I've seen this. For example person wants product X and product X is out of stock. Product X is normally in stock, very unusual to be out of stock and will be in the next day. The customer does not return until oh 3 weeks later. Product X is once again out of stock that day. It of course has been in every day until that day! I've seen weird things like that happen many times.
Of course the company just might have a high error rate so it would be good I guess to actually let people know who the company was so they can confirm your problems or say it was fluke.

Coloken,
"it sure would be nice if they did not just copy the description, some time wrong, from some one else. There are cases where they don't even have the det/indet correct."
That bugs me also. Sometimes I search a variety and everyone has the same description, sometimes the same pic too!

Tedln,
" Assuming all the conditions were the same for all the varieties (which they were). what are some other common conditions which would prevent one variety from germinating?"
If the company is reputable and they test all their seeds, I would just say it was an odd occurrence. I've had very weird things happen with starting seeds over the years and I don't always know what went wrong. I've had it happen with customers where I know the seed has a high percentage rate of germination and they struggled with them.
A paper towel test if you have some leftover seed is always good to tell if the seed is viable.
Remy

[quote=feldon30;181838]The elephant in the room: Which seed vendor?

I'm guessing we're talking about Baker Creek?[/quote]

If we can lump non germinating seed with incorrect seed from vendors into the discussion of non performing seed from vendors, my vendor was Pinetree. I want to give them the benefit of doubt because a lot of people seemed to be having germination problems with Cuostralee seed at the time. I don't think all of those people would have been purchasing from Pinetree. I have ordered and received seed from a different vendor and will keep my fingers crossed next spring.

Ted

The one that gripes me is Sophie's Choice from Gary at tomatofest. He says " short determinate (24")". I bought it to grow in a container inside last winter. It is very defiantly indeterminate. Grew 6 foot high and hit the ceiling. Either wrong seed or wrong description. Wasted a whole winter and a window with a wrong plant. Planted it again this summer and all seeds are indeterminate, not just that one.

I know people are hesitant to mention the seed vendor, but if there is a pattern, it's worth looking into. Carolyn has never pulled punches about pointing out wrong seed or wrong descriptions before.

We're not on a witch hunt but as Feldon has said if there is a pattern, it can only be found if folks post their findings so we can be better informed.
A good example I came across today is Amishland that is selling "Stump of the World" aka "Big Ben". Problem is Stump is PL and the original Big Ben is RL. I grew Stump in 08 PL and am growing Big Ben this year which is RL. I did e-mail Amishland as to the leaf type of this "rare" Stump aka Big Ben variety. Ami

[quote=amideutch;181906]We're not on a witch hunt but as Feldon has said if there is a pattern, it can only be found if folks post their findings so we can be better informed.
A good example I came across today is Amishland that is selling "Stump of the World" aka "Big Ben". Problem is Stump is PL and the original Big Ben is RL. I grew Stump in 08 PL and am growing Big Ben this year which is RL. I did e-mail Amishland as to the leaf type of this "rare" Stump aka Big Ben variety. Ami[/quote]

[URL]http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=7544[/URL]

If folks are interested in the Stump of the World/Big Ben leaf forms the above is a great read about Ben Quisenberry and LQBerry, his grandson did post, which was a delight, and as to leaf form, take a look at what Craig said the leaf forms were early on and then take a look at post 21 where the grandson spoke to the leaf forms of both Big Ben and Stump of the World and their relationship as varieties.

I know there are many many new folks here at Tville who no doubt didn't spend too much time looking at some of the threads in the Legacy Forum, and this thread was a real winner for many of us.

How very interesting - I'll have to read through that forum when I have some time.

I looked up Big Ben on Tania's site, and it says "Ben Quisenberry said to have received the seed from his friend, Bob Dyke of Boonesboro, Kentucky, in 1967. According to Amy Goldman, the Bob Dyke's seed was labelled [URL="http://www.tomatoville.com/wiki/Stump_of_the_World"][COLOR=#0000ff]Stump of the World[/COLOR][/URL], and Ben Quisenberry, who did not like the name, renamed it to [B]Big Ben[/B]. "

So apparently Ben Quisenberry didn't name Stump of the World.

But ok, if he renamed "Stump of the World" to "Big Ben" - then where did the current potato-leaved Stump of the World come from?

[quote=tam91;181934]How very interesting - I'll have to read through that forum when I have some time.

I looked up Big Ben on Tania's site, and it says "Ben Quisenberry said to have received the seed from his friend, Bob Dyke of Boonesboro, Kentucky, in 1967. According to Amy Goldman, the Bob Dyke's seed was labelled [URL="http://www.tomatoville.com/wiki/Stump_of_the_World"][COLOR=#0000ff]Stump of the World[/COLOR][/URL], and Ben Quisenberry, who did not like the name, renamed it to [B]Big Ben[/B]. "

So apparently Ben Quisenberry didn't name Stump of the World.

But ok, if he renamed "Stump of the World" to "Big Ben" - then where did the current potato-leaved Stump of the World come from?[/quote]

The reason that some of us believe that Ben Q named the variety Stump of the World hinself is b'c he was a very religious man and pictures of some of his seedpacks are at the LI Seed Co, ken Ettlinger, as well as ones sent to my now departed good friend Kees Sahin who with is wife owned Sahin Seeds, in the Netherlands, that showed his writing of biblical references on those seed packs. Kees also had copies of his seed listings with biblical sayings that he had wrotten on those.

No e-mail, no internet back then. Everything was done by old fashioned writing of letters.

Stump of the World refers to the Root of Jesse and in the link I just gave that was discussed and I gave examples of bibilical references.

I don't think that he would turn to religion AFTER receiving a variety called Stump of the World since his grandson also spoke to that in the same thread and saiud that his grandfather had always been a very religious man.

Oh I understand - and I had read what you wrote about that issue. And perhaps I wrote incorrectly (so easy to goof up the written word) - I wasn't questioning his religiosity at all.

But it's interesting - the grandson said in that thread that Ben didn't like the name "Stump of the World", and therefore renamed it.

I don't know where Tania got her information, but she states that he did not name it, but that his friend did, and that Ben changed the name to Big Ben.

If that's true - and Big Ben is the original "Stump" - then what is the current Stump? Seems to be a contradiction.

It is such a different world now, with the internet and easy documentation of things - whereas in the past, there can be so many conflicting stories.

As an aside - I have thought - my grandparents generation, the great invention was the automobile. My parents - perhaps the television. My generation - definitely the internet. I worked on developing Boolean keyword searching for university libraries, and can remember when that was the "cats pajamas". Now, commonplace. Interesting how things change.

[quote=coloken;181856]The one that gripes me is Sophie's Choice from Gary at tomatofest. He says " short determinate (24")". I bought it to grow in a container inside last winter. It is very defiantly indeterminate. Grew 6 foot high and hit the ceiling. Either wrong seed or wrong description. Wasted a whole winter and a window with a wrong plant. Planted it again this summer and all seeds are indeterminate, not just that one.[/quote]
Definitely wrong seed. Sophie's Choice has never grown more than 2 feet for me if that much, and I've grown it many times.
Remy

OK, so since many of you asked and commented that it would be a service to the others on this board, the vendor for the wrong seed I've had two years in a row is Baker Creek.

Feldon, you're the winner.....

I have had many problems with incorrect seed from pinetree but they always honored there gaurantee and replaced the seed for me. Unfortunately mant times it is too late to start over when this happens!

Yes would you please dnt hesitate in telling the seeds vendor who happens to miss up seeds or give wrong directions ,,,

It would help others to know what to expect ,,,

Thanks, Amr

Funny I found thios article! I have been sitting on some Baker creek seed of Green Zebra and started 2 plants in Sept. for my winter crop and to my amazement I got no green Zebra coming up. I have no idea what they are and wasted my earhbox space on these 2 plants. I now have another reason to never order from baker creek again.

Just to set the record straight I have [SIZE=3][COLOR=Red]NEVER[/COLOR][/SIZE] had the wrong seed sent to me from Tomato Growers Supply. For a long time now I have consistently received the right seed from this outstanding company from peppers to tomatoes. I have ordered around 200 different varieties from them and always got the right thing every time.
Not that mistakes can and will be made, they have done great by me.

Hats Off to a real good seed supplier.:yes:

Worth.

Poor seed vendors
 

[quote=amideutch;181817]Puzzley, the main reason for this forum is to [B]Identify[/B] Seed vendors whether they be good or bad and if bad identify the problems the vendor has whether it be late shipping, payment issues or in your case varieties that do not grow true to name. Other people may have had the same problem with the same vendor but just blew it off. By posting the vendor's name others might jump in who had the same problem with the vendor and in your case two years in a row it might be better to name the vendor as a service to our other members. Ami[/quote]
I think many of us are reluctant to name vendors because of not wanting to give them a bad reputation if our problem is a 'one off'. I have had a bad experience with Tomatopedia. It is a UK company so this is probably only relevant to UK members. I placed an order on Sep 9th and finally after numerous e-mail enquiries and unanswered telephone calls my Paypal payment was refunded on December 21st. This only came after I had given them a deadline before I reported a dispute to PayPal.
They are offering about 800 varieties of tomato seed and plants. Apparently they send to the US for the seed to fulfil each individual order.
Has anyone else had experience of Tomatopedia? Maybe, as stated in the e-mail I did finally receive, that he(Nick Botting) had twice sent seeds(not the ones I had ordered!) to my address and I had not received them. If so why did he not reply to my e-mails enquiring about the whereabouts of the order, telling me that he had done so.
:( Gill

Gill, thanks for mentioning this. I only recently discovered the Tomatopedia site and was impressed by the number of varieties listed but a little suspicious of them because they seemed as if they might just be the middlemen in the transaction. Defo won't risk ordering from them now.

I tried going back to the site now and I got this message:
[QUOTE]Down for Maintenance ...
The site is currently down for maintenance. Please come back later.
We apologise to our customers but Tomatopedia is currently down for maintenance and to address security issues.[/QUOTE]

I did make an order with Tomatopedia when they initially came online and were offering a discount on your first order. Evidently they are getting their seeds from Tomatofest and repackaging them. If you look at what Tomatopedia is offering it is the same as Tomatofest. And one of the varieties I ordered "Gigantesque" is only sold by Tomatofest. Delivery was slow, due to them sourcing from the States and seed packs were paper with ziplock inside containing seeds. Slow delivery was my only problem with these folks. But you would be better served ordering directly from Tomatofest if that is the only source for the variety you seek. Ami

Tomatopedia also got some seeds from me to resell. I think they buy from many other seeds vendors.

Tania