Fluorescent Lighting For Seedlings - No Longer In "DENIAL" (pics)
 

For years (actually Decades), I have always started seeds, then when about 4 weeks old, potted them up and sat them in the kitchen window, then transplanted them outside a few weeks later. They were always spindly, but struggled through.

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_1034-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_5180.jpg[/IMG]

But, after seeing Worth's photos in his "25 Days" thread, I finally bit the bullet and bought a T5 light. As I was limited to a grow table measuring 24" by 44", my options were restricted. I settled on one Hydrofarm "Jump-Start" 24 inch light. These were the seedlings when I set up the light on Jan 21:

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_1013.jpg[/IMG]

But, the plants developed a sharp "lean" toward the single 23W fluorescent bulb:

I then adapted a second Jump-Start onto the base unit:

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_1024-1.jpg[/IMG]

But again, the seedlings were quite distorted in their growth habit (Jan 28):

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_1027-1.jpg[/IMG]

So, I then ganged 3 of the JumpStart lights together now totaling 72W at 6400 degrees Kelvin on Feb 4:

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_1138.jpg[/IMG]

Today (Feb 11), the plants are between 10" to 12" tall, and doing pretty well:

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_1211.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa322/raybo2/IMG_1214.jpg[/IMG]

The "moral" of the saga is that years (no, Decades) ago, I should have taken the advice of others and used fluorescent lighting on my seedlings.:shock:

Raybo:oops:

i used to use the window sill and the results were lousy, spindly plants, few leaves. i made a grow light stand, 2 shop lights side by side, 2 shelves (could use a 3rd at floor level but never needed to) and the results were amazing. i raise almost everything i grow under these lights and even pole beans this year vs direct seeding for a jump start on the season.

i've posted this before but here it is again.

[URL]http://www.tsflowers.com/plantstand.html[/URL]

tom

Looking good Ray! Now if you get them in a cooler room like a garage where they would grow taller slower and become more stalky.

Damon

Great setup! Any reason you don't just get them outside? Is it still too cold where you are?

Damon,

I have now cut back the "On-time" from the original 12 hours - - to now 8 hours per day. The 3 lamps provide a pretty even lighting pattern over the 2 trays.

Pyrrho,

I normally put the plants outside in mid-March - - but this year with our temps running 5 to 15 degrees above historical normals, I am now aiming to plant out on March 1. I have two sets of back-up plants growing now, in case we get hit with a hard freeze. [I]"Belt and Suspenders"[/I], so to speak...:))

Raybo:D

Raybo I have been using the the same setup for about 3 years now and have had good success. I agree 1 per flat is not enough I line them up and space them as needed I have about 10 now but not sure how many will be in use this year due to the upcoming adoption I will not be starting as may this year. Here is a link to my setup from years past for anyone that is interested. I had a couple of the older T12 lights in this post but now have all T5 lights.

[URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=14155&highlight=gobigs[/URL]

Craig

It's called "Watt Power" My setup has a total of 264 watts. 6ea 26 watt CFL's and 3 ea 36 inch 36 watt power twists. Looking good Ray. When are you going to open up your Tomato-R-Us store. And don't forget that book your writing called "Tomatoes, Doing it in the Spare Bedroom".:shock: Ami

[url]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10818[/url]

Well, Raybo, if you're giving in, so am I. Just since I read this thread yesterday, someone offered me 2 - 4-footers with grow lights, and 2 - 2-footers. Time for some pvc and a few joints.
:yes:
j

Jane, what type of joints are you contemplating - for your 'grow room'?

:)):lol::twisted::))/puke:dizzy::panic::?::P:yes:

I ran the numbers several times and just could not justify purchasing T-5's or even T-8's over the old T-12's. The T-5 bulbs were 8 times and the fixtures 3 times the price. It would take over six years to make up the difference in energy savings. And that's assuming the bulbs never need to be replaced.

I use the T-12 bulbs in tight over young seedlings. When it's time to transplant, the larger seedlings go under metal halide lights (I lucked out and got these fixtures for free - rescued from the trash).

I keep the window open at night to try to get the temperature under 60°. I also try to give all seedlings at least 30 minutes per day of fan time to stimulate stalks to strengthen.

I'm new to this lighting thing. Are the MH lamps making it so hot in there that you have to '[I]keep the window open at night to try to get the temperature under 60°.'[/I]?
j

I've met several people who assume that metal halide lights are very hot. Halogen bulbs are hot, while MH's are not. I've measured the temperature several times - 4" under the bulbs is a steady 80° F, very nice for tomato plants which are kept at least 12" away.

In my "nursery" room, I run up to five 400-watt bulbs simultaneously. Yes, if I kept the windows and doors closed all day long, the heat might build up to 90°, but it's not a good idea to stop air circulation anyway, especially for tomatoes.

I keep the lights on timers, 16 hrs. on, 8 hrs. off. The lights are off at night so there would be no accumulation of heat anyhow. It's my understanding and experience that tomato plants really benefit from cooler night time temperatures in the 50-60° range. This helps prepare them for outdoor conditions and (I'm assuming) helps prevent spindly growth.

Ah, good. It's lighting, but not the MH. Thanks for the clarification.
8)
j

I move/turn the trays, and shake them every day my setup is is a south window gets really hot and sunny in the afternoon here even now in dead of winter. A huge 150 year tree was cut down last week right across the street from this window. I use 2 shelves with lights and a top shelve with no lights. I rotate them under light i got the Pepsi containers the stores use to hold 8 tall bottles made of stronge plastic. The store throw them out. so i grabbed 5 perfect for carrying plants in final pots as they grow. And moving out side for a few hours in spring. I think we all have had to many plants in our hands and the box would break the plants would survive but no more name in each. This happened a few years ago i was using those long plastic cheap ones junk.

I recently realized that I need more light fixtures, after running out of room for my transplants, and back up seedlings that I just started. I don't see how Craig has so many flats of plants with only two shop lights, and how they don't suffer from insufficient light.

Rotate evertime you walk beside then it shakes them also i just put mine in a different room on the floor which is cooler they slow down then and get fatter stems. Always water from the bottom i just put water in the tubs he uses on the floor put my pepsi container of 6-8 plants inside to drink. Lift up drain and the onto shelves i also have clear plastic on my shelves because there is light under each shelf. No more reaching under lights to water for me. Perfect set up every year i am starting later now this works great I can speed up or slow down. Gregg uses a garage i see and his trees are they I did not see any sun in his garage and the floor is cold?

I'm always interested in other light/grow setups people come up with, share some photos with us Filmnet........

I use two 4ft Jump Start lights sides by side like Craig has shown. I've kept them in my living room, never thought about trying a cooler area. How cool is too cool? How big do the seedlings need to be before they can handle the cooler temps? I have a finished insulated basement- it has electric heat, but I never turn it on.

I use regular 40W flourecent shop lights from home depot for my seed starting setup and they worked great last year!

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/attml/3711_3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/attml/32611_2.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=rnewste;254544]Damon,

I have now cut back the "On-time" from the original 12 hours - - to now 8 hours per day. The 3 lamps provide a pretty even lighting pattern over the 2 trays.

Pyrrho,

I normally put the plants outside in mid-March - - but this year with our temps running 5 to 15 degrees above historical normals, I am now aiming to plant out on March 1. I have two sets of back-up plants growing now, in case we get hit with a hard freeze. [I]"Belt and Suspenders"[/I], so to speak...:))

Raybo:D[/QUOTE]

Raybo,

I'm with you on the 'Belt and Suspenders' approach -- I always have back-ups as well. In my case, I get my seedlings hardened off as soon as weather permits, and keep them outside as much as possible. I'm usually able to accomplish this around the time the plants are ready for their first potting up (first or second set of true leaves).

I figure hardening off is one of the few steps where something can really go wrong, and if it does, I'd rather have it happen sooner rather than later. This also avoids the need for anything beyond a shop light or two to get things started.

With your relatively mild climate, I thought you'd be able to do the same. On the other hand, you've got about twice as many plants as me (not counting things other than tomatoes), so it would be that much more of a pain to haul everything in and out each day. It's quality time spent with them, though! ;)

my setup
 

Here it is what i do went the seeds start growing i just use 1 sheet which holds 2-3 seeds in each tiny 2" by 2". Also Gregg uses when the 2nd leafs are open I put 1 plant in the same pots he uses 4"4" pots . This blue tray will have 8 plants and will be under the lights, 2 of them under 1 light, So 4 trays under these lights. 32 plants , as they grow i put them under the shelf with a 8ft light higher. I do not move the lights use boxes under the trays to get the plants closer to the lights, as they grow i move the boxes out. It so nice to pick up each , if 1 plants is growing slower i move it to the same tray. To water i put each tray with 8 plants in large tray on the floor with 1inch of water , then put it back , never water form the top. Also the plants on top here are moved out The plants on top get sun for a few days then on the floor to slow down, I will only do 3 with 8 in each of tomatoes 24 plants and, 2 for peppers 16 plants. Peppers under the lights were so slow growing.

I raise my seedlings in five stages:

1. Seedling heat mat - two trays, thermostatically controlled, temperature set according to what's sprouting, humidity domes, topped with blankets to conserve heat, trays or insert sections removed immediately when emergence is observed.

[IMG]http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/SEAMSFASTER/Seedlings/SeedlingsStage1A.jpg[/IMG]


2. Fluorescent lights - five shelves, 10 fixtures, homemade cranks, old metal display rack with scrap wood (both rescued from trash), holds 10 trays + partials, total cost <$120.

[IMG]http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/SEAMSFASTER/Seedlings/SeedlingsStage2A.jpg[/IMG]

3. Metal Halide lights - one bulb covers 16 sf, about 12 trays, seedlings can manage ok under these for several weeks, lights can be raised as needed.

[IMG]http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/SEAMSFASTER/Seedlings/SeedlingsStage3A.jpg[/IMG]

4. Hoop house - 16'X7', cheap plastic, double layer, holds about 50 trays, small heater, cost for materials (excluding lumber for raised bed) around $80.

[IMG]http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/SEAMSFASTER/Seedlings/HighTunnel4-01-2011.jpg[/IMG]

5. Outdoor - to garage as needed to escape cold wet conditions, trays kept on carts made from old doors and castors (only significant expense, about $10 per cart), garage can hold about 150 trays.

[IMG]http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/SEAMSFASTER/Seedlings/Plantsingarage5-18-11B.jpg[/IMG]

I'm planning to crank out over 5,000 starts this year. Obviously this is all on a very tight budget. Perhaps someday I'll be able to afford a real greenhouse...

Seamsfaster, it looks as if your system is working out well for you...very well. :yes:

Seamus, same as my system - only yours is x10 more so! A lot of shuffling, but worth it.

When you say "T5", are you talking about standard 28 watt, or 54 watt High Output?
Just wondering. The old 40 watt T12 lamps would be fine if you are mixing a diversity of color temps.
I like to mix 3000K and 5000K (available in T5, T8 and T12). Long time lighting salesman, Mike

I bought the "economy" shop fixtures they sell at Walmart, each fixture taking two T8 elements. I initially purchased both the bright and the warm lights, but found the seedlings were attracted mainly to the bright. I'm now using mainly bright lights and the seedlings are thriving! ...Well...actually, now I have the seedlings all on the front porch, abnd I intend to keep them there for the next week! Our weather here seems to think it is late May or early June!!!

I use one T12 40watt fixture with warm bulbs and one T8 fixture with cool bulbs. Both fixtures per shelf have worked out well for me.

Just a thought but if your handy and have a drill (or a husband who is) you can make a pretty easy hood for those light fixtures. I went to home depot and found some of the 3" diameter ducting they sell in 1/2 pieces that you connect, so it was somewhat like a half of a circle and I reshaped it into more of a parabolic shape. I drilled 3 sets of 2 holes 1/4" in diameter through the ducting and bottem portion of the balast evenly spaced out. Then I used spray adhesive and glued mylar to the inside surface of the ducting and mounted them. Just by looking it seems to have not only increased the light intensity by about 50%, but it also gets better coverage on the outskirts of where you would normally not want your plants (leaning). Total cost is maybe $4 per fixture. It makes good use of all that light that is being directed upwards and outwards. I need to get my camera out and take a few pictures soon and I'll update.

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