Presto Pressure canner VS All American.
 

Presto Pressure canner VS All American.

I was about to pull the trigger and get a 23 quart Presto canner.
But for some reason I looked on the Presto web sight I think to see if it had a weight for 5 PSI.
To my surprise this canner doesn't have a weight gauge it is a over pressure weight set to go off at 15 PSI.
You still have to rely on the gauge to keep the pressure at 10 PSI.

I know good and well I saw a weight gauge for the canner, I just know I did, it had washers on it.
I now just read the one without the gauge uses the weight gauge with washers and it will fit the 23 quart canner.
But I dont want to buy the thing.

Really Presto, get your game on for crying out loud and drop the 15 pound weight all together.:evil:

The All American on the other hand has a dial gauge AND a weight gauge with 5-10-15 pound capability.

This is more of a public service announcement than anything else.
Just to let people know that the darn weight is not a weigh gauge.
If you use this weight as an indicator at 0 to 1000 feet above sea level you will be over processing your food at too high a temperature, I think at around 152 F or so.
But dont take my word for it.

Now back to scratching my head as to what I want to do.:?
By the Presto and order the other weights or get the All American.:dizzy:
Darn it all.:lol:

Worth

The bacterium Clostridium botulinum is completely annihilated at a temperature of 250F or 121C. This is achieved at a presure of 15 PSI. Any pressure lower does not achieve the necessary temperature. [B]All pressure canning should be done at 15 PSI.

[/B]Pressure canning at lower pressures are decidedly wrong and put the public at risk.

Your altitude is how you decide what your pressure should be at. You probably live way lower than me.
If you are 1000' above sea level then we do need to can at 15#'s. I am at 1100' but I don't always can at that... depends on what I am canning. Peaches? no way. They would be mush if I did.

Worth, I removed the old stem off of my old canner(s) and replaced them with a new stem from mirro. Then I bought a new rocker type weight gauge 5/10/15 one to can with. it works very well. I can watch the gauge IF it has one otherwise I just let it rock slowly for the duration of the time.

[QUOTE=clkeiper;499328]Your altitude is how you decide what your pressure should be at. You probably live way lower than me.
If you are 1000' above sea level then we do need to can at 15#'s. I am at 1100' but I don't always can at that... depends on what I am canning. Peaches? no way. They would be mush if I did.

Worth, I removed the old stem off of my old canner(s) and replaced them with a new stem from mirro. Then I bought a new rocker type weight gauge 5/10/15 one to can with. it works very well. I can watch the gauge IF it has one otherwise I just let it rock slowly for the duration of the time.[/QUOTE]

Look at these processing times and PSI from the national center for food preservation on green beans.

With a gauge it gives options below the 15 pound limit from 1000 to 2000 and so on.
[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEUQFjAEahUKEwjI_7rm1K7HAhUGiw0KHdenCCc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnchfp.uga.edu%2Fhow%2Fcan_04%2Fbeans_snap_italian.html&ei=KBDRVcjLIYaWNtfPorgC&usg=AFQjCNFsheMAeb_ncOrdcs02hGFW6RXXHg&sig2=Hb1uh1VvUqYhXLJQAHm6Fw&bvm=bv.99804247,d.eXY[/url]

As for me I live well below 1000 feet.:lol:

Worth

Someone getting away with doing something unorthodox at 800 feet elevation doesn't mean that someone doing the same thing at 6000 feet elevation can get away with it.

If someone is doing something here that is unorthodox please say they are.
People come here to get good honest, truthful, safe information.

My mother canned quart jars of green beans at 10 PSI for 25 minuets for years they weren't mush and they were what the rules said to do.
We never got sick.
It is the only processing time I can remember, we canned so many of them.

Worth

[QUOTE=Worth1;499336]Someone getting away with doing something unorthodox at 800 feet elevation doesn't mean that someone doing the same thing at 6000 feet elevation can get away with it.

If someone is doing something here that is unorthodox please say they are.
People come here to get good honest, truthful, safe information.

My mother canned quart jars of green beans at 10 PSI for 25 minuets for years they weren't mush and they were what the rules said to do.
We never got sick.
It is the only processing time I can remember, we canned so many of them.

Worth[/QUOTE]
[B]A pressure canner must reach a temperature of 250 degrees Fahrenheit in order to stop botulism. [I]This is an axiom.
[/I][/B]Fifteen (15) PSI reaches 250F[B][/B]Ten (10) PSI only reaches a temperature of 240F[B][I].[/I][/B][B][/B]Five (5) PSI only reaches 228F[B][I]
Do I miss somethng?
[/I][/B]

[QUOTE=Durgan;499338][B]A pressure canner must reach a temperature of 250 degrees Fahrenheit in order to stop botulism. [I]This is an axiom.
[/I][/B]Fifteen (15) PSI reaches 250FTen (10) PSI only reaches a temperature of 240F[B][I].[/I][/B]Five (5) PSI only reaches 228F[B][I]
Do I miss somethng?
[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

240F is sufficient for destroying botulism. 10 psi is sufficient. Add 1 additional minute for each 1000' of altitude.

Of course 11 psi is better (thinking about Spinal Tap) :)

Worth, I have the All American with the gauge (with no way to calibrate/test it), and 2 Presto canners with the 5-10-15 weight gauge. Frankly, I prefer the Prestos - they are lighter (and I'm getting older) and they can be monitored by ear rather than checking a gauge for 100 minutes if doing salmon for instance. I actually bought the weight gauge for the All American, but cannot get it installed as the original over pressure vent is immovable. The All American does seem to be more sturdily built and has a metal to metal seal so you'd never need to worry about replacing a gasket.

Our altitude is a bit over 1900, and I'm sure there are a lot of preservers a lot higher (? Denver) so I think the 15 psi weight needs to stay.

[QUOTE=salix;499351]Worth, I have the All American with the gauge (with no way to calibrate/test it), and 2 Presto canners with the 5-10-15 weight gauge. Frankly, I prefer the Prestos - they are lighter (and I'm getting older) and they can be monitored by ear rather than checking a gauge for 100 minutes if doing salmon for instance. I actually bought the weight gauge for the All American, but cannot get it installed as the original over pressure vent is immovable. The All American does seem to be more sturdily built and has a metal to metal seal so you'd never need to worry about replacing a gasket.

Our altitude is a bit over 1900, and I'm sure there are a lot of preservers a lot higher (? Denver) so I think the 15 psi weight needs to stay.[/QUOTE]

All of the new All Americans have a gauge and the 5 10 and 15 pound weight.

Are you sure it isn't able to be removed I have seen really old ones with the new weight installed.

But I agree the presto is half the weight for the same size canner.

Worth

I'm at 1030 feet (Having Norris Lake nearby makes knowing this easy). I have a Presto Dial Guage 16 quart model and I love it. I can see where the 5-10-15 weighted guage would add some peace of mind to the operation and maintaining a good constant pressure. However, I'm an old bench technician and I love my dial guages. I have an easy way of checking the dial guage for accuracy and so far it is performing perfectly. I check it about 3 times a season to make sure nothing has deteriorated.

I believe that if I had an older weighted guage model, I would put a dial guage on it for additional peace of mind for me. :)

To kill the spores of [I]Cl.botulinum [/I]a sterilization process equivalent to 121°C (250F) for 3 min is required.
[url]https://www.fsai.ie/faqs/botulism.html#botulism6[/url]

[QUOTE=ContainerTed;499356]I'm at 1030 feet (Having Norris Lake nearby makes knowing this easy). I have a Presto Dial Guage 16 quart model and I love it. I can see where the 5-10-15 weighted guage would add some peace of mind to the operation and maintaining a good constant pressure. However, I'm an old bench technician and I love my dial guages. I have an easy way of checking the dial guage for accuracy and so far it is performing perfectly. I check it about 3 times a season to make sure nothing has deteriorated.

I believe that if I had an older weighted guage model, I would put a dial guage on it for additional peace of mind for me. :)[/QUOTE]

I would never have a canner without a gauge and yes I check my own too.:)

Worth

Not arguing the point --- perhaps there is a class action lawsuit for Presto because their manual clearly states 240F.
I also know that the gauges on these devices are the cheapest possible so one should always add 2.5 psi at least (25 psi gauge max scale) to assume calibration to be +/-10% F.S. on the high side of error.

I had both until a couple of years ago when I sold the Presto canner at a garage sale. I like not buying gaskets! I had the old style All American with jiggler and no gauge which my friend rehabbed for me with the gauge and the weights. My canning consists of red salmon which is canned this time of year like coming up this next week!
Sue

<<The bacterium Clostridium botulinum is completely annihilated at a temperature of 250F or 121C. This is achieved at a presure of 15 PSI. Any pressure lower does not achieve the necessary temperature. All pressure canning should be done at 15 PSI.

Pressure canning at lower pressures are decidedly wrong and put the public at risk.>>

Durgan, you seriously do not know what you are talking about. The Univ of Georgia does extensive testing using a biomarker for botulism in the jars and thermocouplers to measure things such as temp and fluid circulation. They most certainly do know what is going on inside the jars and have most certainly determined at what point (time and/or pressure) that C. bot spores are destroyed. Your advice, otoh, puts the public at risk.

Worth, you are correct...if one wants to use the weights for canning with a Presto, you have to buy the weights. But really, they aren't that expensive...by far less than the difference in price of a Presto vs an All American.

Now, to read the rest of this thread.

Worth, I have the Presto 23-quart canner and at the advice of a number of posters on the GW Harvest forum use it at as weighted-gauge plus dial gauge canner through the addition of a pressure regulator that has rings for 5, 10, and 15 psi.

Mine looks like this (but it cost considerably less--look around a bit):

[URL]http://www.amazon.ca/Presto-Pressure-Canner-Regulator/dp/B000HMBVQ8/ref=pd_sim_79_3/188-9493779-7932212?ie=UTF8&refRID=10TB9QJJT84YF082VMCD[/URL]

bitterwort, yes that's what I have and I think they are even cheaper here at our local farm supply store. I was discussing pressure canners with someone on a facebook canning group and she had a mirro I think it was? It only had weights, no gauge. I'd rather have the gauge as well as the weights so I can know when the pressure comes down to zero before opening the lid. I know the little button goes down when it is ready, but I still like to see it at 0.

This is why you shouldn't guess at processing times or think one size fits all. There are many factors that go into determining how to safely can foods. This is an explanation by an expert in Australia;

The timing given for any particular recipe is based on how long it takes for the entire contents of the jar to be heated to the safe temperature (240F - 250F) all the way through, and then it has to stay there for long enough to sterilise it. When they are testing recipes, they put little testing thermocouples in the jars that show the testers how fast the jars heat, whether it's even, and even how the heat moves through the food. Some ingredients are only recommended to be cut in particular ways because the size and shape of the pieces affects how fast and well they heat.

Some foods are dense - meaning they contain less water and air than other foods the same size, and they take longer to heat through and need longer processing. The ratio of solids to liquids can affect the rate of heating. Heat transfers more easily and quickly through liquid than through solids and dense mixtures, so a new canning process time would have to be determined through product testing if you were to increase the solid to liquid ratio.

Some foods have higher risk of spoilage because they naturally carry more fungi or bacteria on their skins. These also need longer processing times. And once they work out the minimum processing time needed to make a food safe for storage, then they also have to figure out the maximum time that you can process it without the food losing quality, either in texture and palatability, or in loss of vitamins and nutrition. The final times are based between those two to allow for variations in preparation and in the produce itself, and are designed to give home canners the best possible results in the safest but also the easiest way.

More details and explanation here;
[url]http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/general/ensuring_safe_canned_foods.html[/url]

[QUOTE=coronabarb;499403]This is why you shouldn't guess at processing times or think one size fits all. There are many factors that go into determining how to safely can foods. This is an explanation by an expert in Australia;

The timing given for any particular recipe is based on how long it takes for the entire contents of the jar to be heated to the safe temperature (240F - 250F) all the way through, and then it has to stay there for long enough to sterilise it. When they are testing recipes, they put little testing thermocouples in the jars that show the testers how fast the jars heat, whether it's even, and even how the heat moves through the food. Some ingredients are only recommended to be cut in particular ways because the size and shape of the pieces affects how fast and well they heat.

Some foods are dense - meaning they contain less water and air than other foods the same size, and they take longer to heat through and need longer processing. The ratio of solids to liquids can affect the rate of heating. Heat transfers more easily and quickly through liquid than through solids and dense mixtures, so a new canning process time would have to be determined through product testing if you were to increase the solid to liquid ratio.

Some foods have higher risk of spoilage because they naturally carry more fungi or bacteria on their skins. These also need longer processing times. And once they work out the minimum processing time needed to make a food safe for storage, then they also have to figure out the maximum time that you can process it without the food losing quality, either in texture and palatability, or in loss of vitamins and nutrition. The final times are based between those two to allow for variations in preparation and in the produce itself, and are designed to give home canners the best possible results in the safest but also the easiest way.

More details and explanation here;
[URL]http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/general/ensuring_safe_canned_foods.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

There is a lot of assumptions, guess work if you like, in these recommendations. There are temperature sensing indicators available or that could be slightly modified for home canning that are not being used. It is time this area was re-addressed. In the meantime, my 15 minutes at 15 PSI on a slurry which means homogeneous material seems as logical and practical as any of the plagiarized findings produced on the internet.

I have the all american.
I can tell you like quality stuff.
You will like it too, and whoever gets it when you are gone, built like a tank.

And therein lies the truth, Durgan. Your method 'seems' logical to you (practical has less importance than scientific research?). Science proves you incorrect. What seems logical to you does not stack up against scientists who have years of training and experience in a laboratory. When you said 85 mins pressure canning corn would result in mush, it is not true in the real world. I know many people who do just that every summer with the great results that a reasonable person would expect from guidelines reached through testing that takes months.

I used Naomi's correspondence to me as an illustration on how testing works. She included part of NCHFP's info on the ratio of solids to liquids and the effect of changing it to make a point. There are no assumptions, no guess work, just scientists working in labs using actual science to determine how to safely and effectively can w/o destroying the food. They have spent much $$ doing so. Saying it needs to be readdressed is folly.

You are the reason we have the disclaimer at the top. You are welcome to can anyway you like. But don't tell the rest of us that the NCHFP/USDA has it wrong because science proves you wrong. And that's the last word on this.

[QUOTE=Durgan;499325]The bacterium Clostridium botulinum is completely annihilated at a temperature of 250F or 121C. This is achieved at a presure of 15 PSI. Any pressure lower does not achieve the necessary temperature. [B]All pressure canning should be done at 15 PSI.

[/B]Pressure canning at lower pressures are decidedly wrong and put the public at risk.[/QUOTE]

This is just not true. Botulism spores can be killed at lower temperatures, it just takes longer. I read one study which showed the spores were killed at boiling temperature (212F) but it took 20 hours of boiling. At 10 psi (240F) the spores were killed in about 12 minutes, and at 15 psi (250F) they were killed in 2.5 minutes. These times were for spores inoculated in neutral water, and the kill time is less in an acidic medium.

As Coronabarb said, the actual time for a given recipe depends on the rate of full heat penetration which is a function of many factors, such as density, viscosity, chunk size, etc. This can be difficult to predict using rules of thumb. While most people do can their own recipes, it is safer to follow proven recipes such as those given by the NCHFP, at least for low acid foods.

TomNJ/VA

Worth, I bought a 30 quart All American pressure canner nine years ago and absolutely love it. It is expensive and heavy, but built like a tank and will last your lifetime and that of your children and grandchildren as well. It doesn't need any gaskets and has a gauge and weight. I paid $240 for mine, but amortized over 20 years of canning it will cost only $12/year.

The 30 quart version will hold 19 pints jars or 14 quart jars (double stacked). I need this capacity for my canning needs, and along with the Victorio mill it makes canning a pleasure. I put up 87 pints of salsa in the past two weeks, and will start on tomato sauce this week.

TomNJ/VA

I have the 23 quart Presto Pressure Canner. I have no idea how to use it, but will use proven recipes when it is time to use it.

I guess getting a PHD of Culinary Arts would help. :dizzy:

But seriously, I had no idea sea level meant anything with using a pressure canner.

[QUOTE=Nematode;499425]I have the all american.
I can tell you like quality stuff.
You will like it too, and whoever gets it when you are gone, built like a tank.[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking about getting the 30 quart one so I can, process 14 quarts at one time.

Now I have came to another realization.
I am so glad I have taken my time buying a canner.
The main reason I was thinking about the Presto is I can use it in the glass top stove.
My stove says I can the the presto site says I can if the stove says I can.
(Yes my stove talks to me).:o
All American says not to because of the weight but they say that on their smallest canner.
The other thing is the indentation on the bottom of the canner they say or I read somewhere could cause a vacuum on the stove.
All of my large kettles and post have this same indentation and I have never had a vacuum.

Well anyway the deciding factor was something that was staring me in the face all along.
I feel like an idiot for not seeing it before.

My Microwave is mounted above the stove no matter which canner I get I will have to get a separate burner for the canner.
Neither one of the bigger canners will fit under the microwave. :lol:
The presto might maybe.
If any of you would like to could you measure your All American 25 or 30 quart or 23 quart Presto at the edge and say what it is.
So the 30 quart All American it is, I think.:?
For small batches I still have my little canner that will can 4 quarts.

Worth

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;499479]I have the 23 quart Presto Pressure Canner. I have no idea how to use it, but will use proven recipes when it is time to use it.

I guess getting a PHD of Culinary Arts would help. :dizzy:

But seriously, I had no idea sea level meant anything with using a pressure canner.[/QUOTE]

Salt this is why I cant watch some of the space movies, the things that go on in them break all the laws of physics.:lol:
Try as they may I still catch something.

And yes a gun would fire in outer space the propellant has everything it needs.
But in the extreme cold on the dark side of the moon it would shatter at -280F.

Worth

[QUOTE=TomNJ;499474]Worth, I bought a 30 quart All American pressure canner nine years ago and absolutely love it. It is expensive and heavy, but built like a tank and will last your lifetime and that of your children and grandchildren as well. It doesn't need any gaskets and has a gauge and weight. I paid $240 for mine, but amortized over 20 years of canning it will cost only $12/year.

The 30 quart version will hold 19 pints jars or 14 quart jars (double stacked). I need this capacity for my canning needs, and along with the Victorio mill it makes canning a pleasure. I put up 87 pints of salsa in the past two weeks, and will start on tomato sauce this week.

TomNJ/VA[/QUOTE]

Tom did the 30 quart come with an extra rack to stack the jars?
Not that it matters I could make one.
Worth

Worth YES! I remember hearing this and was thankful I had no microwave above the stove. I have the 23 qt Presto and haven't used it on my glass stove yet. Kind of hesitant even though my stove model says it is okay. I would love to have the heavy duty All American but I'm quite sure I could not lift it, esp when full.

[QUOTE=Worth1;499483]
The main reason I was thinking about the Presto is I can use it in the glass top stove.
My stove says I can the the presto site says I can if the stove says I can.
(Yes my stove talks to me).:o
All American says not to because of the weight but they say that on their smallest canner.
The other thing is the indentation on the bottom of the canner they say or I read somewhere could cause a vacuum on the stove.
All of my large kettles and post have this same indentation and I have never had a vacuum.



Worth[/QUOTE]

I didn't read the directions, DW said you can't use it on the glass stove, Looked at her and said if it breaks we can get gas, she said pressure can away!
Glass is still going strong. Just my experience.....

Ha, ha nematode. I hate electric stoves. Maybe I too should can away and not worry if it breaks. Btw, we are putting in a propane tank at the new house so I will have a gas stove top. Have I mentioned how much I hate cooking with an electric stove?