Planting medium strategies?
 

I'm going to get my containers ready for the season and trying to decide what mediums I should use. I used pine bark fines andProMix in the past and I had good results. Im trying to be cheap now. Could I get just plain peat at the box store and then add mychorizae purchased off of Amazon. I plan on adding some perlite and vermiculite as well. I heard Azomite might be worth adding as well. any suggestions?

Chef Bert

Boca Raton isn't all that rainy, so no need for a super-draining mix like 5-1-1 or permutations thereon. I'd just use Miracle-Gro Potting Mix, which needs no amendment and is relatively cheap.

The compromises are cost, yield, space, and they can be prioritized in a number of ways.

My costs including ferts on a 15gal pot are about $15. And for that money, I'm pretty sure I can average 25lbs of tomatoes per plant or 60 cents a pound.

I believe I could lower my costs, but I also think efficiency would suffer. So say I lower my costs to $5 a pot and my production is now 15lbs or 33 cents a pound.

I have lowered my cost of tomatoes, but I have fewer pounds in the same amount of space using approximately as much fertilizer.

There are a few do-it-yourself recipes on this site for making your own mix. I believe one is supposed to adjust for the PH of the peat when doing so. I don't think it is a big cost-saver for me. Pro Mix in the bale that expands to four cubic feet is about $15 for me at Menard's. I add mycogrow and osmocote, and that's all.

[QUOTE=Ricky Shaw;599591]So say I lower my costs to $5 a pot and my production is now 15lbs or 33 cents a pound.[/QUOTE]

Your point is good, but...

$15 / 25 lb = 60¢ /lb
$10 / 15 lb = [B]67[/B]¢ /lb


:panic:

[QUOTE=dmforcier;599558]Boca Raton isn't all that rainy, so no need for a super-draining mix like 5-1-1 or permutations thereon. I'd just use Miracle-Gro Potting Mix, which needs no amendment and is relatively cheap.[/QUOTE]

I used a 3-1-1 recipe. Since i"m using SIP's rain is a non factor. Thanks for your help

I believe everything checks, but I'm wrong plenty and it's only a theoretical.

The example was, lower my cost [B]to[/B] $5, not [B]by[/B] $5.

15lbs costing $5 = .33 lb

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;599592]There are a few do-it-yourself recipes on this site for making your own mix. I believe one is supposed to adjust for the PH of the peat when doing so. I don't think it is a big cost-saver for me. Pro Mix in the bale that expands to four cubic feet is about $15 for me at Menard's. I add mycogrow and osmocote, and that's all.[/QUOTE]

I wish I knew where you got your ProMix. it is very hard to find around here. My ProMix HP 2.8 cf bale cost $28 I think. If I buy peat and add mycorhhizae it might be a whole lot cheaper, no?

[QUOTE=Ricky Shaw;599615]
The example was, lower my cost [B]to[/B] $5, not [B]by[/B] $5.[/QUOTE]
Ah! This is what happens when one goes right for the numbers. Sorry.

[QUOTE=ChefBertMor;599621]I wish I knew where you got your ProMix. it is very hard to find around here. My ProMix HP 2.8 cf bale cost $28 I think. If I buy peat and add mycorhhizae it might be a whole lot cheaper, no?[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen it anywhere near that cheap. And peat itself isn't far off the cost of a pre-mix.

I take it you've had good results with mycorhhizae? I've long understood that it isn't particularly effective in containers, so haven't used it.

[QUOTE=ChefBertMor;599621]I wish I knew where you got your ProMix. it is very hard to find around here. My ProMix HP 2.8 cf bale cost $28 I think. If I buy peat and add mycorhhizae it might be a whole lot cheaper, no?[/QUOTE]


Here's the link. It's $13.99 for the bale that expands to 4 cubic feet:
[url]http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/gardening/lawn-plant-care/compost-soils-amendments/all-purpose-professional-growers-mix-2-cu-ft/p-1444451345687-c-1463608034794.htm?tid=176356555217217074[/url]

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;599634]Here's the link. It's $13.99 for the bale that expands to 4 cubic feet:
[URL]http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/gardening/lawn-plant-care/compost-soils-amendments/all-purpose-professional-growers-mix-2-cu-ft/p-1444451345687-c-1463608034794.htm?tid=176356555217217074[/URL][/QUOTE]

Thats not the package I got. Mine was the white with orange and black

This stuff [URL="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GP7TR2O/ref=pd_day0_86_3?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GP7TR2O&pd_rd_r=CVYDWE1SJHX9YM1Z25JR&pd_rd_w=zplq6&pd_rd_wg=t0xSk&psc=1&refRID=CVYDWE1SJHX9YM1Z25JR"]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GP7TR2O/ref=pd_day0_86_3?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GP7TR2O&pd_rd_r=CVYDWE1SJHX9YM1Z25JR&pd_rd_w=zplq6&pd_rd_wg=t0xSk&psc=1&refRID=CVYDWE1SJHX9YM1Z25JR [/URL]

A lot more expensive
[URL="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GP7TR2O/ref=pd_day0_86_3?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GP7TR2O&pd_rd_r=CVYDWE1SJHX9YM1Z25JR&pd_rd_w=zplq6&pd_rd_wg=t0xSk&psc=1&refRID=CVYDWE1SJHX9YM1Z25JR"][/URL]

Bert - I'm in the same boat as you re: ProMix. There is one supplier close to where I live. I faithfully use it and it was $41 for a 3.x Compressed bale but since the election when growing medical marijuana was passed, it is now $48.

Miracle Grow was $14-$15 so was no cheaper; just worse mix.

I have a ton of perlite so bought a bale of peat moss from Lowes for $11. I have one empty EB so am going to try it.

----
BTW - I solarize the mix at the end of the season so do get multiple seasons with it.

[QUOTE=dmforcier;599628]Ah! This is what happens when one goes right for the numbers. Sorry.



I haven't seen it anywhere near that cheap. And peat itself isn't far off the cost of a pre-mix.

I take it you've had good results with mycorhhizae? I've long understood that it isn't particularly effective in containers, so haven't used it.[/QUOTE]

The ProMix has mycorhhizae in it. Worked for me. As I understand as long as there are roots the symbiotic relationship would be unaffected if it was in the ground or in the container. YMMV

[QUOTE=Barb_FL;599639]Bert - I'm in the same boat as you re: ProMix. There is one supplier close to where I live. I faithfully use it and it was $41 for a 3.x Compressed bale but since the election when growing medical marijuana was passed, it is now $48.

Miracle Grow was $14-$15 so was no cheaper; just worse mix.

I have a ton of perlite so bought a bale of peat moss from Lowes for $11. I have one empty EB so am going to try it.

----
BTW - I solarize the mix at the end of the season so do get multiple seasons with it.[/QUOTE]

You mean since Wed morning they bumped the price because of Amendment #2 Legalizing Medicl Marijauna? There is going to be months and months of hearings to get the regulations in place. No real reason for such a proice increase.

Miracle Grow @$15 is no cheaper than Pro Mix? Or do you mean straight peat moss?

Im basically trying to make my own home made ProMix at a much cheaper price.

Im not counting price per pound or any of that. Just trying to minimize and do for myself instead of buying pre made.

Heck Im a chef I cook everything from scratch if I can, I even bake the Marvelous Magical Monty the Wonder Lab's doggie treats, easy peasy

[QUOTE=ChefBertMor;599644]You mean since Wed morning they bumped the price because of Amendment #2 Legalizing Medicl Marijauna? There is going to be months and months of hearings to get the regulations in place. No real reason for such a proice increase.

Miracle Grow @$15 is no cheaper than Pro Mix? Or do you mean straight peat moss?

Im basically trying to make my own home made ProMix at a much cheaper price.

Im not counting price per pound or any of that. Just trying to minimize and do for myself instead of buying pre made.

Heck Im a chef I cook everything from scratch if I can, I even bake the Marvelous Magical Monty the Wonder Lab's doggie treats, easy peasy[/QUOTE]

The ProMix uncompressed makes 7 Cubic Feet of mix (or fills 3.5 Earthboxes)
EB need 2 CU feet of mix.

A 50 quart bag of Miracle Grow doesn't even fill 1 Earthbox; cost $13 (HomeDepot)

So it would take over 3.5 bags to fill 3 EB = $45.5

Even at Walmart, Miracle Grow cost $7.42 for 1 Cubic Ft, so 7 Cu Ft is $51.94

----
I haven't bought Miracle Grow Mix in years but I remember it was really crappy with chunks of wood in it.

I bought 3 CU Ft compressed Peat Moss for $11.48, by the time I add a ton of Perlite, it will make over 7 CU ft of mix.

I did the $12 bale of Sunshine Sphagnum from Lowes and 10% perlite for 10gal pots of cukes and squash and in planters for flowers and it worked fine. The lack of mycorhhizae was some concern and the mix was a bit more reluctant to wet. However, I wouldn't hesitate to use it for tomatoes myself, but would add the microbes.

[QUOTE=Barb_FL;599648]The ProMix uncompressed makes 7 Cubic Feet of mix (or fills 3.5 Earthboxes)
EB need 2 CU feet of mix.

A 50 quart bag of Miracle Grow doesn't even fill 1 Earthbox; cost $13 (HomeDepot)

So it would take over 3.5 bags to fill 3 EB = $45.5

Even at Walmart, Miracle Grow cost $7.42 for 1 Cubic Ft, so 7 Cu Ft is $51.94

----
I haven't bought ProMix in years but I remember it was really crappy with chunks of wood in it.

I think we are talking about different stuff. The ProMix Im talking about was really good stuff. No chunks of wood or other crud, just good planting material.
I bought 3 CU Ft compressed Peat Moss for $11.48, by the time I add a ton of Perlite, it will make over 7 CU ft of mix.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Barb_FL;599648]The ProMix uncompressed makes 7 Cubic Feet of mix (or fills 3.5 Earthboxes)
EB need 2 CU feet of mix.

A 50 quart bag of Miracle Grow doesn't even fill 1 Earthbox; cost $13 (HomeDepot)

So it would take over 3.5 bags to fill 3 EB = $45.5

Even at Walmart, Miracle Grow cost $7.42 for 1 Cubic Ft, so 7 Cu Ft is $51.94

----
I haven't bought ProMix in years but I remember it was really crappy with chunks of wood in it.


I bought 3 CU Ft compressed Peat Moss for $11.48, by the time I add a ton of Perlite, it will make over 7 CU ft of mix.[/QUOTE]


I think we are talking about different stuff. The ProMix Im talking about was really good stuff. No chunks of wood or other crud, just good planting material.

[QUOTE=ChefBertMor;599621]I wish I knew where you got your ProMix. it is very hard to find around here. My ProMix HP 2.8 cf bale cost $28 I think. If I buy peat and add mycorhhizae it might be a whole lot cheaper, no?[/QUOTE]

You can buy Promix BX 3.8 cu ft bale for $30 at Universal Enterprises Supply just off Blount Road. Use the Coconut Creek Parkway exit off the turnpike, go east, first light us Blount Road.
That bale fluffs to about 7 cu ft.
The BX already has tons of Perlite, and mycorrhizae.

I never saw chunks of wood in it.
I wouldn't dream of using anything else.

[QUOTE=ChefBertMor;599663]I think we are talking about different stuff. The ProMix Im talking about was really good stuff. No chunks of wood or other crud, just good planting material.[/QUOTE]

DUHHH.... I meant Miracle Grow...I hadn't purchased MG in years. I buy at least 5 bales of ProMix a year.

The last few times it has been this one:
[URL]http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-hp-biofungicide-plus-mycorrhizae/[/URL]


If I attempt to make my own, I will use 30% perlite. I like Chunky Perlite.

[I]*If I attempt to make my own, I will use 30% perlite. I like Chunky Perlite.

[/I]This helped me, made me dig and find out what promixHP was, because I assumed it was around 15%-20%, and you're dead-on Barb, 25%-35% perlite

Which explains why my 10% perlite pots for flowers were so much more difficult to take water, less perlite to break up a mat of crusting peat.

Nice thread for facts and tidbits, thanks villians.

Crusting peat is the worst. It blocks seeds from coming up. In older seedlings, it blocks the water when top-watering. Dry peat floats like a boat when trying to bottom-water.

The Fafard mix that uses pine bark fines instead of peat is far superior, in my opinion. But I still buy the peat-based pro mix because it is cheaper.

[QUOTE=ginger2778;599665]You can buy Promix BX 3.8 cu ft bale for $30 at Universal Enterprises Supply just off Blount Road. Use the Coconut Creek Parkway exit off the turnpike, go east, first light us Blount Road.
That bale fluffs to about 7 cu ft.
The BX already has tons of Perlite, and mycorrhizae.

I never saw chunks of wood in it.
I wouldn't dream of using anything else.[/QUOTE]

Thats where I got ot. I think they also have pine fines which I intend to investigate/buy.

I will be honest I dont remember exactly how much I paid for it, but I keep seeing $50 prices online and I wonder what the deal is.

KIm glad I have a local pick up, gardening would be a bit more difficult.

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;599671]Crusting peat is the worst. It blocks seeds from coming up. In older seedlings, it blocks the water when top-watering. Dry peat floats like a boat when trying to bottom-water.

The Fafard mix that uses pine bark fines instead of peat is far superior, in my opinion. But I still buy the peat-based pro mix because it is cheaper.[/QUOTE]

I debated using the Farfard,but I was unsure what was in it exactly. Maybe I will test my ProMix based 3-1-1 versus the Farfard.

BTW which Farfard product did you use. There are a few that might fit into 'uses pine bark fines.'

I joined the coco coir crowd for my larger container grows.Pro Mix I still use for the delicates(erbs,flowers etc.)The prices are decent for a commodity(inexpensive)medium for production.A local hydro store sells bales(3.8cu.ft)at $18.00.I do not have any connection, but see below for some value engineering for larger growing regimens.

[url]http://www.earthscapeusa.com/online-store-1[/url]

[QUOTE=kurt;599693]I joined the coco coir crowd for my larger container grows.Pro Mix I still use for the delicates(erbs,flowers etc.)The prices are decent for a commodity(inexpensive)medium for production.A local hydro store sells bales(3.8cu.ft)at $18.00.I do not have any connection, but see below for some value engineering for larger growing regimens.

[url]http://www.earthscapeusa.com/online-store-1[/url][/QUOTE]

Speaking of Promix, down near you, Kurt, is Diamond Fertilizer, and they sell the 3.8 cu. ft bales of PromixBX for $24. I get some every time I get down that way.

Here ProMixHP runs $45 for the 3.8cu ft bale, and this year I'm planning to do a few tomato pots with the coco coir. The Hydro-Gardens/ChemGro that I presently use works well with that media and the projected cost of coir is less than half.

Tell me on the coir. Anyone. Do you amend with perlite or vermiculite? And, are plastic, poly, or fabric pots preferred? And any reasoning? Thank you

.

The bag was black, so I think it was the 51 or 52:
[url]https://www.hummert.com/product-details/9040/fafard-growing-media[/url]

A guy not too far from me owns a flower-growing greenhouse. He is listed as a dealer for Fafard. He has the components of the mix delivered by semi-trucks, and mixes it himself. He has the conveyor apparatus that feeds mix into bags. It's all quite impressive. He sold me a few bags the first year I had my greenhouse, which he was doing just to be nice.

Hummert will deliver that mix to me by the pallet for like $12-14 a bag I think (the prices listed on their web site are not the real prices). I can get a pallet delivered for only a $35 shipping fee if I wait for the bi-monthly truck delivery. But I never have the money to buy a season's worth of mix all at once, and end up using the peat mix from Menard's.

Shipping weights of these products and our distance from manufacturing point add to the cost tremendously here. These are prices from HTG Supply, the biggest hydro-grow chain in the Denver area. I've checked at garden centers and they were no cheaper on ProMixHP. I go through my local hydroponics store and he's cheapest on a cash deal and got it for $42 last year and quoted me $45 tax included and I pick it up. The store is literally 1 minute away, 2 blocks, so no big deal.

Growing media was at least 70% of my gardening costs last year. Not complaining, I get my share of tomatoes, but I am going to experiment on clean lower cost media options.

The cheapest media I can buy from Hummert is rice hulls, the last time I looked.

If I were experimenting with low-budget hydro, I would try gravel, straw bales, and maybe sawdust if I could get that for free. Cost is the limitation with hydro. It's easy to spend $300 to grow $30 worth of tomatoes. Doing it to make even a small profit is the real challenge.