Pomodorino del Piennolo del Vesuvio (Spongillo)
 

As promised:
The Piennolo (sometimes called Piennelo or Spongillo) is since 2009 a [B]protected designation of origin[/B] ([B]PDO[/B]), which is the best recognition that can happen to a tomato in Europe. It is a small red oval-shaped tomato, with side wrinkles and a characteristic pointy top. It is grown in Campania in the municipalities part of the [B]Vesuvius National Park, on the slopes of the vulcano on dark sandy terrain. [/B]between150 and 450 m of altitude: growing tomatoes is an activity fit for a wonderful protected area like this one, since it needs little irrigation and only manual labour.It is one of the most ancient prdoucts of Campania's agriculture, loved by Neapolitan people so much that they honored it by including it in their traditional Christmas creche.
Piennolo is sold both [B]fresh[/B] and [I]conservato al piennolo [/I]("preserved by the pendulum"): it is an ancient way of preserving tomatoes and it consists in binding different bunches of tomatoes together to form a larger bunch (the [I]piennolo[/I]), which is bung in ventilated rooms, thus preserving it for the whole winter. As time goes by, the tomatoes lose part of their moist and gain an exceptional flavour. This preservation method is made possible by the peculiar features of the [I]Pomodorino del Piennolo del Vesuvio DOP[/I]: a thick skin, a fruit well bound to its stalk, a high concentration of sugar and acids which maintain its taste through the long preservation period. These features are tightly linked to the volcanic land it is grown on.
If you grow them home, you must be conscious that they will never taste as the ones grown on the vulcano, but you still get a fairly good tomato.
Great for cooking it is definitely a keeper, meaning if harvested in august you will be able to use it well until jan or feb.

Although not a f1 hybrid, i found it to be very resistant to diseases, very prolific and bears fruit until the first week of october (in florence).
It must be grown vertically up to 80cm (stake it), the fruits must not touch the ground. Even if not common, i grow them in pots where i try to use the finest type of earth i can get. All my other tomatoes go directly into the soil. I'll post some pics later on during the season.
I attach a pic of very young plants. Notice the Piennolo, above growing standard tomato leaves, as compared to the all-american potato leafed Brandyboy below.

Make sure to check the youtube video i embed to get an idea of how it looks alive.
Malabar Circle



[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9JtwSqxTaA[/url]

Very interesting and a beautiful video.
Are these tomatoes nearly solid with no or very little gel?
KarenO

Hi Karen, not sure what you mean by gel, but they are quite solid.

I would like to see one cut across the middle to see the interior. By gel I mean the wet gel that usually surrounds seeds in the locules of a tomato.
KarenO

Thanks for the great write-up and video!

I'm growing Piennolo this year, even though I don't live near a volcano :( I notice that the soil where they are growing Piennolo del Vesuvio is incredibly dry and I assume that the flavor is very condensed as a result.

Nicky, a fellow Ontario grower here on TV, recommended Piennolo to me, so I am excited to try it :)

Linda

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPotXrqf9JY[/URL]
forward to 1:44 to see the interior part split in half ....and if you are interested that is a simple recipe...if you have all the ingredients :-)

[QUOTE=Labradors2;626571]Thanks for the great write-up and video!

I'm growing Piennolo this year, even though I don't live near a volcano :( I notice that the soil where they are growing Piennolo del Vesuvio is incredibly dry and I assume that the flavor is very condensed as a result.

Nicky, a fellow Ontario grower here on TV, recommended Piennolo to me, so I am excited to try it :)

Linda[/QUOTE]
Absolutely correct Labradors. Taste actually develops during the months following the harvest into something very peculiar, but very very good. I wish you best of luck with it.

[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;626577]Absolutely correct Labradors. Taste actually develops during the months following the harvest into something very peculiar, but very very good. I wish you best of luck with it.[/QUOTE]

Interesting to me since it sounds like a de Colgar type,aka winter variety, when you say that taste develops during the months after harvest.

The two countries where de Colgar types were and still are most prevalent are Spain and several Spanish islands near Spain, and also Italy. And I've grown many de Colgar varieties, well,passed them along to my now 7 seed producers that I get from someone in Spain,and expecting a new shipment any day now.

Carolyn

[QUOTE=carolyn137;626592]Interesting to me since it sounds like a de Colgar type,aka winter variety, when you say that taste develops during the months after harvest.

The two countries where de Colgar types were and still are most prevalent are Spain and several Spanish islands near Spain, and also Italy. And I've grown many de Colgar varieties, well,passed them along to my now 7 seed producers that I get from someone in Spain,and expecting a new shipment any day now.

Carolyn[/QUOTE]
De colgar is a general spanish term that means " to be hanged", referring in this case to tomatoes species that can be hanged to dry. Piennolo means pendolum or to be hanged in oscillation. I've lived in spain fo 2 years and i know what you are referring to. However in terms of quality they cannot be compared to Piennolo which is infact a european [B]protected designation of origin[/B] ([B]PDO[/B]). This title is not so easily granted and is strictly regional.
The Piennolo can be eaten fresh from harvest however due to a thick skin (which allows for the long coservation) is better to have it stored in clusters (as per my avatar) and used to cook later during the year. The taste that it develops is quite unique and makes a tomato sauce of unparalleled taste and overall quality. I am referring to the ones grown there, in that region. Anywhere else taste and quality will be different, possibly inferior. it is still worth a solid try though.

Suppose that you sent some of these seeds to Carolyn, and she then grew tomatoes and offered those seeds to other Tomatoville members.
Since Pomodorino del Piennolo del Vesuvio (Spongillo) is a protected designation of origin variety name, would you expect the seeds to be given a new, different name? I know that this has happened to many food products- wines, cheeses, etc.
I can appreciate the desire to preserve the designation, but it can also make things very confusing.

Jim

[QUOTE=Douglas_OW;626615]Suppose that you sent some of these seeds to Carolyn, and she then grew tomatoes and offered those seeds to other Tomatoville members.
Since Pomodorino del Piennolo del Vesuvio (Spongillo) is a protected designation of origin variety name, would you expect the seeds to be given a new, different name? I know that this has happened to many food products- wines, cheeses, etc.
I can appreciate the desire to preserve the designation, but it can also make things very confusing.

Jim[/QUOTE]
Hi Douglas!
I see where you are driving. It is a good point indeed, and a confusing one.
The recognition given to the spongillo is derived not only from the type of tomato plant but to the particular conditions where it is grown: vulcanic location & terrain, climate, wind.
Now, not all years are the same and not all Piennolo come out each season with the same organolectic properties as the climate changes and regional conditions do as well. Yet it remains a [B]DPO[/B] product.
My answer to you is this: If you are getting seeds directly from the protected area of the Vesuvio national park where the Piennolo is grown, and you plant them in the US i see no reason to change a name. We will agree though on the fact that the Piennolo produced there will have different characteristics from the original one and will be at best a surrogate of the original one. [B]Not a DPO[/B]
If you get seeds from other fellows tomatovilles who have been getting their seeds from other local friends etc...etc... then the original plant even if maintaining certain characteristics has been somehow "polluted". Then as generations pass possibly it wouldnt be fair to maintain the same name as the plant is not the same.
The reason for the existence of the DPO certificate is very simple. You can get original vesuvio seeds and then grow the product in the US but you cant claim and SELL it as a [B]Pomodorino del Piennolo del Vesuvio (Spongillo) DPO.
[/B]You would have to specify that it is a Pomodorino Piennolo but not DPO, not grown on the vesuvio and does nto reflect same taste and properties[B], [/B]else you would damage people who sell the real one in Italy. You would try to exploit a name whose general characteristics yor product does not possess.
Same thing happened to our Parmigiano cheese...chinese made...When we grow tomatoes for passion in an amatorial fashion the way the members of this forum do, i don't think we have such problems. If you are trying to make money out of it claiming you have a DPO spongillo grown in cheyenne, wyoming then...well, i don't think it would be fair, now would it ?! [B]
Malabar
[/B]

The "Tomato Piennolo Vesuvius PDO" includes old varieties and local biotypes united by morphological and qualitative characteristics more or less similar, the selection of which has been carefully decades by farmers themselves. The names of these ecotypes are popular attributed by the local producers, such as "Fiaschella", "bulb", "Patanara", "Principe Borghese" and "Re Umberto", traditionally cultivated for centuries in the same territory of origin
Vladimír

Beautiful video... Looks like a tomato I like to grow but mine is a hybrid, Juliet. I imagine this one, being a heirloom, would have a better taste.

[QUOTE=MrBig46;626680]The "Tomato Piennolo Vesuvius PDO" includes old varieties and local biotypes united by morphological and qualitative characteristics more or less similar, the selection of which has been carefully decades by farmers themselves. The names of these ecotypes are popular attributed by the local producers, such as "Fiaschella", "bulb", "Patanara", "Principe Borghese" and "Re Umberto", traditionally cultivated for centuries in the same territory of origin
Vladimír[/QUOTE]
Absolutely correct Vladimir. Although i planted a few years ago some seed of Principe Borghese. The resulting plant is not quite the same as the Piennolo that has evolved now, but very very similar, also it is a winter type to be hanged...de colgar :-)

[QUOTE=rhoder551;626690]Beautiful video... Looks like a tomato I like to grow but mine is a hybrid, Juliet. I imagine this one, being a heirloom, would have a better taste.[/QUOTE]
Hi rhoder, if you intend to eat it fresh it's ok, but there are probably better alternatives that come to my mind right away. If you keep it for winter...in my modest opinion, has no equal.

[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;626602]De colgar is a general spanish term that means " to be hanged", referring in this case to tomatoes species that can be hanged to dry. [/QUOTE]

No, de colgar tomatoes are not dried, nor intended for drying. They are used fresh or cooked, not dried. They are hanged, because that's how they store longer, but can be stored in other ways.

[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;626602]Piennolo means pendolum or to be hanged in oscillation. I've lived in spain fo 2 years and i know what you are referring to. However in terms of quality they cannot be compared to Piennolo which is infact a european [B]protected designation of origin[/B] ([B]PDO[/B]). This title is not so easily granted and is strictly regional.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I tried the right thing. What I grew as Piennolo was not that good, and it didn't store for long. Everybody says otherwise and that's why I'm not sure I grew the real thing. What I do know very well is that "de colgar" tomatoes can be extremely tasty with amazing quality right from the plant.

You don't know all the "de colgar" varieties, nobody does. Their diversity is overwhelming with many many hundreds of varieties.

[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;626602]The Piennolo can be eaten fresh from harvest however due to a thick skin (which allows for the long coservation) is better to have it stored in clusters (as per my avatar) and used to cook later during the year. The taste that it develops is quite unique and makes a tomato sauce of unparalleled taste and overall quality. I am referring to the ones grown there, in that region. Anywhere else taste and quality will be different, possibly inferior. it is still worth a solid try though.[/QUOTE]

There should be more than thick skin to make it a long storage tomato. As I wrote above, many de colgar varieties can be eaten fresh from harvest.

I've heard a lot of stories telling that a certain variety will only taste well in a certain place. Obviously conditions affect flavour, but the only way to compare things properly is under the same conditions.
Good varieties, when grown under good conditions, tend to be good tasting, and better tasting than bad varieties. I'm not so sure that a special adaptation will prevent great flavour when grown in places were tomatoes in general develop great flavour.

This the first I've heard of any type of tomato that can be saved and used fresh over winter. I'm intrigued... off to look for some seeds.

[QUOTE=ilex;626765]No, de colgar tomatoes are not dried, nor intended for drying. They are used fresh or cooked, not dried. They are hanged, because that's how they store longer, but can be stored in other ways.



I'm not sure I tried the right thing. What I grew as Piennolo was not that good, and it didn't store for long. Everybody says otherwise and that's why I'm not sure I grew the real thing. What I do know very well is that "de colgar" tomatoes can be extremely tasty with amazing quality right from the plant.

You don't know all the "de colgar" varieties, nobody does. Their diversity is overwhelming with many many hundreds of varieties.



There should be more than thick skin to make it a long storage tomato. As I wrote above, many de colgar varieties can be eaten fresh from harvest.

I've heard a lot of stories telling that a certain variety will only taste well in a certain place. Obviously conditions affect flavour, but the only way to compare things properly is under the same conditions.
Good varieties, when grown under good conditions, tend to be good tasting, and better tasting than bad varieties. I'm not so sure that a special adaptation will prevent great flavour when grown in places were tomatoes in general develop great flavour.[/QUOTE]
Hi there,
I beg to differ. "to dry" was not the best word i could choose. We have many dry tomatoes and it is a different thing. Maybe seasoned..not sure, but the point is they are used a few months after harvesting them.
In one of the videos i embedded, the guy is cooking spaghetti with Piennolo, when he cuts them you will see that inside they are not dry at all.

I've lived in Spain 2 years, 1 in Sevilla. While in marbella i' ve seen many women utilizing tomatoes de colgar in a similar fashion to the Piennolo, when they had already been harvested for a while. They were consumed fresh as well, but trust me...not only.
If you speak Spanish, this is a video that will clarify this for you. And she says that they consume them in winter as they last long time...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXqXtivaTOw[/url]

No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.

(No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.)

Allow me to tell you something about Ilex, since I know him well. He is one of the major sources of many varieties from Spain, just one other in Spain, from Mallorca, also sources new Spanish ones.

And yes,I have been to both Portugal and Spain myself,and of course Seville and Madrid and so many more places and also Morocco on the 3 week trip.

Due to EU regulations in Spain, not all countries have the same EU regs, he cannot sell seeds in Spain, so he joined SSE in the US as a listed member and can sell them from there and at last look was listing, let me check, 133 varieties of tomatoes, along with peppers and squash and eggplant.

He recently listed what he was growing this summer and I didn't know any of them. I deal with him directly in Spain,he knows what I prefer and then sends the new ones , about 22,should arrive any day now,then they get listed in a spreadsheet and my now 7 seed producers make their selections, and his request price is very low and also includes shipping.

I am amazed at the biological diversity of ones grown in Spain, but it makes sense when one considers that after the Spanish overcame the Aztecs, they bought back seeds from S America and at that time Portugal and Spain were one country.

So nothing bogus about Ilex at all as you wrote above, whether his many de colgar ones or beefsteaks, or hearts, or striped ones or whatever..

Carolyn

I think he said the seeds may have been bogus, not the man, at least that's how I read it :)

[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;626834]Hi there,
I beg to differ. "to dry" was not the best word i could choose. We have many dry tomatoes and it is a different thing. Maybe seasoned..not sure, but the point is they are used a few months after harvesting them.
[/QUOTE]

Well, usually, when you select a tomato for its long keeping qualities, you, well ... store it for a while. That's what you are selecting for, and that's why you grow it. It's more a decision than a need.

Here, drying tomatoes are not rare, I only have 1 drying tomato variety in my collection, and it comes from the mountains far from the sea. Nobody even tries to dry tomatoes here, it's a waste of time. You can't store dry tomatoes here fall to spring, at least not without plastic.

The solution was "de colgar" tomatoes. It was the only way to store tomatoes for winter. It was the perfect tomato for subsistence farms. Cheap, easy, productive ... providing fresh tomatoes all year long.

They can be used in many ways, and there are different varieties for different uses. Some are intended for salads, for cooking, for salsa ... and the most important use ... for bread rubbing.

It's true that they change in storage, and taste and aroma change in storage. Aroma specially can increase in storage. Most varieties are better for bread rubbing after some time in storage, as softer flesh works better. Some varieties are soft from day one, but for other uses, you don't need to wait. Other varieties never get soft, while others are fantastic in salads for over 4 months.

[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;626834]
In one of the videos i embedded, the guy is cooking spaghetti with Piennolo, when he cuts them you will see that inside they are not dry at all.

I've lived in Spain 2 years, 1 in Sevilla. While in marbella i' ve seen many women utilizing tomatoes de colgar in a similar fashion to the Piennolo, when they had already been harvested for a while. They were consumed fresh as well, but trust me...not only.
If you speak Spanish, this is a video that will clarify this for you. And she says that they consume them in winter as they last long time...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXqXtivaTOw[/url]
[/QUOTE]

I've lived in Spain a bit longer than you , and right in the middle of these tomatoes center of diversity. I don't consider Sevilla nor Marbella, places were there's a huge use of these tomatoes.


[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;626834]
No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.[/QUOTE]


I have a seed bank devoted to these tomatoes, starting, but already over 100 varieties, so I've tried a few. There are not many readily available in the markets, and probably over half of what is sold around are fake hybrids. I would be surprised if you really have a good perspective from Sevilla and Marbella.

We are talking at probably around 1000 surviving varieties. I believe they are the most diverse tomato group in the world. Basically they only share their long storage capabilities, and usually are on the small size with hard skin. Every other trait can and does change among varieties.

Enzymatic activity in all fruit will continue after harvesting, and this can be both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on the fruit in question. Banana's, for example, will gradually develop a more intense flavor as they continue to ripen.

In the case of tomatoes, most varieties will spoil long before any enhancing of flavor can be gained ... with the exception of longkeeper varieties. Longkeepers, whether they be Spanish, Italian, or American will last much longer after harvesting, allowing the flavors to gradually develop and enhance over time as various enzymes continue to remain active within the fruit.

I believe that this was what Malabar Circle was trying to get at.


And I am also sure that there are lots of different uses they can be put to. Some longkeepers will be better for cooking with, and some will be better for drying, and some will be better for flavoring bread (really great idea by the way Ilex) in the dead of winter ... and everyone will have his or her own favorites.

That's what makes tomatoes so wonderful. All the different varieties out there, and all the different ways that people find to use a simple member of the nightshade family. After all, how boring would it be if there really was the proverbial "perfect tomato" and everyone agreed there was no equal? Then what would we talk about?

[QUOTE=seaeagle;626916]I think he said the seeds may have been bogus, not the man, at least that's how I read it :)[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree at all, I just wanted to clarify who Ilex is and his experiences in growing what he does and why.

Carolyn

[QUOTE=carolyn137;626905](No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.)

Allow me to tell you something about Ilex, since I know him well. He is one of the major sources of many varieties from Spain, just one other in Spain, from Mallorca, also sources new Spanish ones.

And yes,I have been to both Portugal and Spain myself,and of course Seville and Madrid and so many more places and also Morocco on the 3 week trip.

Due to EU regulations in Spain, not all countries have the same EU regs, he cannot sell seeds in Spain, so he joined SSE in the US as a listed member and can sell them from there and at last look was listing, let me check, 133 varieties of tomatoes, along with peppers and squash and eggplant.

He recently listed what he was growing this summer and I didn't know any of them. I deal with him directly in Spain,he knows what I prefer and then sends the new ones , about 22,should arrive any day now,then they get listed in a spreadsheet and my now 7 seed producers make their selections, and his request price is very low and also includes shipping.

I am amazed at the biological diversity of ones grown in Spain, but it makes sense when one considers that after the Spanish overcame the Aztecs, they bought back seeds from S America and at that time Portugal and Spain were one country.

So nothing bogus about Ilex at all as you wrote above, whether his many de colgar ones or beefsteaks, or hearts, or striped ones or whatever..

Carolyn[/QUOTE]
I have maximum respect for you as a moderator. However you should not alter the connotation of the words i have written, implying or suggesting a meaning that is at best misleading. Bogus was evidently referred to a quality of seeds that by his own admission do not reflect that of a real Piennolo. SEAEAGLE spotted that right away.
You have made a mistake.

[QUOTE=Malabar Circle;627001]I have maximum respect for you as a moderator. However you should not alter the connotation of the words i have written, implying or suggesting a meaning that is at best misleading. Bogus was evidently referred to a quality of seeds that by his own admission do not reflect that of a real Piennolo. SEAEAGLE spotted that right away.
You have made a mistake.[/QUOTE]

I was posting back to you when all of sudden I was kicked off Tville, the same database problem that others here have referred to and just got back about 30 minutes ago.


I'm glad you have respect for me,I appreciate that.

Yes,I know that you were referring to the seeds that Ilex was growing but you posted

(Bogus was evidently referred to a quality of seeds that by his own admission do not reflect that of a real Piennolo.
You have made a mistake.)

It was you who referred to what Ilex was growing as bogus that did not reflect Piennolo, not Ilex.

If anyone told me I was growing bogus seeds I would take exception to that and very strongly.

No,I have not made a mistake as I just tried to clarify for you.

Carolyn

I notice that Tania says these are PL whereas they are supposed to be RL to be correct.

[url]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Piennolo_del_Vesuvio[/url]

Even if they are incorrect, I understand that they are very tasty, even when fresh :)

Linda

Spongillo
 

@Malabar Circle:

Can you elaborate on the meaning of "Spongillo". In your very first post
you add that in parentheses and go on to say something about it as an
alternative name for the variety.

But what does this mean and what does it refer to; maybe something
having to do with the soil?

Then again there seems to be a little discrepancy popping up.
Mentioned above by Labradors2, it seems that your Pomodorino del
Piennolo have a regular leaf while Tania's Tomatobase says clearly
that they are expected to have a potato leaf.

Is it possible that there is more than one variety or that even after
many (human) generations of selection, there could still be a
considerable amount of variation. Where did you get your seeds?

I think it would be an interesting experiment for someone to grow the PL version of Piennolo Del Vesuvio side by side with the RL version of Piennolo Del Vesuvio that Malabar Circle is growing.

... so many projects ... so little garden space ...

Spongillo solved
 

It's nothing more than the little protrusion at the bottom of the fruit.

Molti sono i nomi popolari attribuiti al prodotto e, spesso,
variano di città in città: è un esempio il termine “pomodoro
di spongillo”, per la puntina nella parte inferiore del pomodoro
(sponda), che, in altri comuni diventa “spuncillo”.

Long keepers
 

I would like to see a little clarification of what is meant, in relation to a tomato,
by the terms "long keeping" (ilex, #21), "long storage capabilities" (ilex, #21),
"longkeeper varieties" (Locomatto, #22).

I'm assuming to start with that this is not the same as some recently bred hybrids
created just to cater to the "retail long chain" (I know I have that incorrect but I
hope it's illustrative enough as I can't think right now of the actual words). In other
words, the post-harvest period that includes sorting, packing, shipping, shelving,
sale and finally consumption. At least one of these has been promoted by an
otherwise favorite seed producer as being capable of shipment from Almeria to
Moscow and return and arriving back home in the same condition as when it left.

It seems to me that this is not at all the same objective as one would seek when
engaging in the Piennolo process.I'm trying to understand a bit about how that
process works and what actually happens to the fruit when it is undertaken. Also,
what characteristics most contribute to its success.

On the contrary, I'm sure that some of these new hybrids are explicitly bred so that
they cannot ripen. They can get plenty red though.

Again, it seems that this is not a quality that the Pomodorino del Piennolo shares.
Would someone knowledgeable kindly comment on that?