Sources of wild tomato seeds in EU
 

As most of the tomato genetic diversity still lies in so called "wild tomato" species, I would like to extend my collection to all 13 existing tomato species. The species Solanum Lycopersicum and Solanum Pimpinellifolium are relatively easily available but it seems much more challengening to gain seeds of another tomato species from other sources than national genebanks which I would like to avoid because receiving seeds from them is conditioned by signing an agreement which restricts the future use of the genetic material.

If you know of any non-genebank source of the wild tomato seeds, please put the link into the comments. As I live and garden in the Czech Republic I prefer the seed sources inside the European Union.

Thanks for your tips:-)


marek

Here's a German company that has some: [url]https://www.magicgardenseeds.com/Tomato-Seeds/Wild-Tomato-Seeds-T.181-/[/url] I haven't ordered from them, and can't vouch for them.

Steve

Thanks, Steve, for the link. It seems they only offer the Solanum Pimpinellifolium which is quite easily available from other sources. I am more interested in other wild tomato species like Solanum Habrochaites, Solanum Pennellii ([URL]http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v46/n9/full/ng.3046.html[/URL]), Solanum Peruvianum, Solanum cheesmaniae, Solanum Neorickii and all the species characterized for example in the study: Morphological Characterization and Relationships of Wild Tomatoes: [URL]https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d9a2/eb55f39cf264d42c635e894041acc2967621.pdf[/URL]

You don't like to purchase from sources outside the EU, but just in case, do check out Trade Winds Fruit..
Theirs is the largest assortment of Solanum species I've seen on-line. Of course not all Solanums are tomatoes, but you will be able to check and see what's there.
[URL]http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/search.php?search_query=solanum&Search=[/URL]

Thanks, NarnianGarden, for the link.

I went through all their tomatoes and apart from Solanum Pimpinellifolium they have:

1) [B]Solanum Cheesmaniae [/B]which is possibly crossed with common tomato.
2) [B]Solanum lycopersicon humboldtii[/B] which is subspecies of common tomato not a separate species.

I will try to order the seeds and I wonder if they will send it to Czech Republic.

I know you prefer sources in Europe,but there are at least two persons I know of who are here at Tville who work with landraces who might have something that interests you.

Carolyn

Isn´t one of them Joseph Lofthouse? I think he doesn´t send his seeds to EU, does he?

[QUOTE=Marek Kvapil;632997]Isn´t one of them Joseph Lofthouse? I think he doesn´t send his seeds to EU, does he?[/QUOTE]

Yes,Joseph is just one for I thought of several more.

You said you needed to add them to your collection, but never said why, and that's important in terms of others I might suggest to you.

Do you intend to breed tomatoes and want some of the species since some of them have the genes for tolerance to some diseases?

I have grown several of thes pecies, Cheesmanii, both major and minor variants are two,along with the pimps,as many do, but never saved seeds from any of those.

Sending seeds to you from the US?I don't see the problem since I send seeds to many in Europe,one has to use what's called a Global Forever stamp.The only countries where problems can appear are getting seeds into the Netherlands,since there are many commercial tomato breeding companies there,and also to Australia,since they are trying to control what's called the Potato Tuber Spindle Viroid,which also affects the tomatoes.

Unfortunately I recently read that that viroid has appeared in Canada and the US as well

[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=potato+tuber+spindle+viroid&hl=en&site=imghp&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJmPHF67PTAhWK7iYKHdq9CccQ_AUIBygA&biw=1402&bih=788&dpr=1[/url]

Carolyn

Do not send.
Vladimír

[QUOTE=carolyn137;633219]Yes,Joseph is just one for I thought of several more.

You said you needed to add them to your collection, but never said why, and that's important in terms of others I might suggest to you.

Do you intend to breed tomatoes and want some of the species since some of them have the genes for tolerance to some diseases?

I have grown several of thes pecies, Cheesmanii, both major and minor variants are two,along with the pimps,as many do, but never saved seeds from any of those.

Sending seeds to you from the US?I don't see the problem since I send seeds to many in Europe,one has to use what's called a Global Forever stamp.The only countries where problems can appear are getting seeds into the Netherlands,since there are many commercial tomato breeding companies there,and also to Australia,since they are trying to control what's called the Potato Tuber Spindle Viroid,which also affects the tomatoes.

Unfortunately I recently read that that viroid has appeared in Canada and the US as well

[URL]https://www.google.com/search?q=potato+tuber+spindle+viroid&hl=en&site=imghp&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJmPHF67PTAhWK7iYKHdq9CccQ_AUIBygA&biw=1402&bih=788&dpr=1[/URL]

Carolyn[/QUOTE]

Yes, one of the reasons why I want to add more wild tomatoes to my collection is I want to use them for breeding more late blight and early blight resistance into tomatoes. But there are other reasons: I want to know them, experience them growing and explore the genetic diversity of tomatoes. I am curious about tomatoes and I like discovering new things. I believe genetic diversity of wild tomatoes is hiding some treasures which still needs to be extracted:-).

Regarding sending seeds to EU: When I was ordering some czechoslovakian heirloom varieties from USDA, ARS, Plant Genetic Resources Unit I had to arrange special permission called Letter of Authority. Only then they were willing to send me the seeds. Nevertheless Central Institute for Supervising and Testing in Agriculture here in my country will test the plants grown from received seeds and they can tell me to destroy the plants if anything is wrong with them...

[url]http://www.rareplants.de/shop/default.asp?[/url]
^These have a few (hirsutum, peruvianum and pimpinellifolium) i have ordered from them myself a couple of times. They will ship to the Czech Republic.
They also have lots of other rare, interesting seeds.

[QUOTE=Marek Kvapil;633316]Yes, one of the reasons why I want to add more wild tomatoes to my collection is I want to use them for breeding more late blight and early blight resistance into tomatoes. But there are other reasons: I want to know them, experience them growing and explore the genetic diversity of tomatoes. I am curious about tomatoes and I like discovering new things. I believe genetic diversity of wild tomatoes is hiding some treasures which still needs to be extracted:-).

Regarding sending seeds to EU: When I was ordering some czechoslovakian heirloom varieties from USDA, ARS, Plant Genetic Resources Unit I had to arrange special permission called Letter of Authority. Only then they were willing to send me the seeds. Nevertheless Central Institute for Supervising and Testing in Agriculture here in my country will test the plants grown from received seeds and they can tell me to destroy the plants if anything is wrong with them...[/QUOTE]

You forgot to mention that you are trading with seeds of rarer varieties. Not directly, but only a participant can get seed (eg Latah) only when attending your training (very expensive). Nobody knows anything about your research.
Vladimír

[QUOTE=MrBig46;633320]You forgot to mention that you are trading with seeds of rarer varieties. Not directly, but only a participant can get seed (eg Latah) only when attending your training (very expensive). Nobody knows anything about your research.
Vladimír[/QUOTE]

Yes, you are right I am trading with seeds. I am open about it. If you look at my profile you can read there:

"Occupation[URL="http://www.tomatoville.com/member.php?u=23429#"][IMG]http://www.tomatoville.com/images/misc/userfield_edit.gif[/IMG][/URL]Gardener, seed producer and merchant. Catalogue of my open-pollinated seeds: www.permaseminka.cz"

I am directly selling open-pollinated seeds in small amounts to czech and slovak gardeners. I try to offer them organically grown seeds of varieties that are not easily accessible in my country and that are suitable for organic gardening. You do not have to attend my training to get my seeds including the seeds of Latah. You can buy it directly on my e-shop.

I am already selling some seeds of pimpinellifolium species. But I think apart from pimpinellifolium and galapagense the wild tomato species are more suitable for breeding purposes than for direct selling and gardening. But it is true I might be selling them in the future if I find them suitable for organic growing in the conditions of Czec Republic.

Is there anything wrong about it?

[QUOTE=DanishGardener;633319][URL]http://www.rareplants.de/shop/default.asp?[/URL]
^These have a few (hirsutum, peruvianum and pimpinellifolium) i have ordered from them myself a couple of times. They will ship to the Czech Republic.
They also have lots of other rare, interesting seeds.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for the link! I ordered Lycopersicon hirsutum from them. But Lycopersicon Peruvianum is out of stock:(

Tania, I think of you. Good luck!
Vladimír

[QUOTE=MrBig46;633358]Tania, I think of you. Good luck!
Vladimír[/QUOTE]

Vladimir, I do think you meant you wanted to thank Tania in her thead,but it ended up here.;)

As for me and sourcing specific seeds I think others of you have a better chance of doing so,so I'm out.:)

Carolyn

Thanks for the warning. I've already fixed it.
Vladimír

[QUOTE=MrBig46;633320]You forgot to mention that you are trading with seeds of rarer varieties. Not directly, but only a participant can get seed (eg Latah) only when attending your training (very expensive). Nobody knows anything about your research.
Vladimír[/QUOTE]

What is so special about Latah,it and many other early varieties were also bred by Dr.Boe

[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=dr.boe+tomatoes&hl=en&site=imghp&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiewM3k3rbTAhVC7YMKHbSiANYQ_AUIBygA&biw=1402&bih=788&dpr=1[/url]

I've grown Latah and don't like it at all,I also grew another one of his called Sandpoint

[url]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sandpoint[/url]

Which I really didn't like at all , seeds from Glenn at Sandhill,and it was a bit a joke between us when I would send him seeds for trial ,he'd ask if anything there that tastes like Sandpoint.

Finally he asked if his wife Linda if she would coat some Latah fruits with dark chocolate and send them to me and I said no,all I would do would be to eat the dark chocolate and leave the rest.:lol:

Merek, I checked out your website and very nicely done,here is the link for others if they want to take a look

[url]http://permaseminka.cz/[/url]

Carolyn

[QUOTE=carolyn137;633477]What is so special about Latah,it and many other early varieties were also bred by Dr.Boe

[URL]https://www.google.com/search?q=dr.boe+tomatoes&hl=en&site=imghp&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiewM3k3rbTAhVC7YMKHbSiANYQ_AUIBygA&biw=1402&bih=788&dpr=1[/URL]

I've grown Latah and don't like it at all,I also grew another one of his called Sandpoint

[URL]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sandpoint[/URL]

Which I really didn't like at all , seeds from Glenn at Sandhill,and it was a bit a joke between us when I would send him seeds for trial ,he'd ask if anything there that tastes like Sandpoint.

Finally he asked if his wife Linda if she would coat some Latah fruits with dark chocolate and send them to me and I said no,all I would do would be to eat the dark chocolate and leave the rest.:lol:

Merek, I checked out your website and very nicely done,here is the link for others if they want to take a look

[URL]http://permaseminka.cz/[/URL]

Carolyn[/QUOTE]


Thank you, Carolyn.

I firstly met Latah in [URL="http://www.realseeds.co.uk/tomatoes_bush.html"]RealSeed Catalogue[/URL] where it is described as "It might just be the best early tomato ever. It’s a super-early variety that tolerates short or cool summer..."

So I tested the variety and found it really very early. It is earlier than eg. Stupické polní rané. It takes about 50 days from planting to harvesting first ripen fruits (Stupické polní rané in my conditions takes about 55 days). As I grow tomatoes mostly outside in the garden or in the field and without fungicides, very early varieties can provide me with some fruits before late blight strikes in bad years. The flavor might be inferior but it is the dark side of many early varieties.

Last year I crossed Latah with the Wild Hawaiian tomato (solanum pimpinellifolium) which has the sweetest taste of all tomatoes I have ever tried. My intention is to improve the taste of Latah. I wonder how delicious the F1 generation of this cross shall prove to be:-)

Yes, very nice, with plenty of pictures. Your pimpinellifolium crops were impressive.

I have tried two currant tomato varieties -red and yellow - and did not find the taste anything special, so I wonder what the issue was.. (other varieties tasted good under same conditions)

[QUOTE=NarnianGarden;633534]Yes, very nice, with plenty of pictures. Your pimpinellifolium crops were impressive.

I have tried two currant tomato varieties -red and yellow - and did not find the taste anything special, so I wonder what the issue was.. (other varieties tasted good under same conditions)[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

There are many currant tomato (mainly pimpinellifolium) varieties. Some of them have very bad flavor but some are exceptionally delicious!

Yes, mine were pimpinellifolium. They were very productive - plenty of fruits indeed -, but the taste was not much worth mentioning. Thankfully, there are countless other cherry toms with exceptional flavor, so I probably won't be tempted with pimpinellifoliums again.

[QUOTE=Marek Kvapil;633527]Thank you, Carolyn.

I firstly met Latah in [URL="http://www.realseeds.co.uk/tomatoes_bush.html"]RealSeed Catalogue[/URL] where it is described as "It might just be the best early tomato ever. It’s a super-early variety that tolerates short or cool summer..."

So I tested the variety and found it really very early. It is earlier than eg. Stupické polní rané. It takes about 50 days from planting to harvesting first ripen fruits (Stupické polní rané in my conditions takes about 55 days). As I grow tomatoes mostly outside in the garden or in the field and without fungicides, very early varieties can provide me with some fruits before late blight strikes in bad years. The flavor might be inferior but it is the dark side of many early varieties.

Last year I crossed Latah with the Wild Hawaiian tomato (solanum pimpinellifolium) which has the sweetest taste of all tomatoes I have ever tried. My intention is to improve the taste of Latah. I wonder how delicious the F1 generation of this cross shall prove to be:-)[/QUOTE]

I've grown 3 of the 4 Stupike ones, two bred for glass house growing and two for outside growing.

But I much prefer

[url]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Matina[/url]

or

[url]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sophie%27s_Choice[/url]

The history of how Stupice, as it was called here in the US came here is also interesting, at least to me.

[url]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Stupice[/url]

Much of the history shown in the above link there was from Vladimir,also from the Czech Republic as you know.Additional info from Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands from Kes Sahin, whose parent were from Czechkoslovakia. Sahin Seeds was bought out by another Co after Kees passed away.
He could never remember the time difference and would call me at 3 AM with his booming voice to discuss this and that, and yes he also sent me some wonderful dark chocolate from the Netherlands as well.

His passion was really peonies and he had the largest collection of them in the world. I still miss him very much .

About your cross of Latah with a pimp and wondering how delicious the F1 might taste like. Knowing the many pimps I've grown as well as Latah, so you are expecting or hoping for something Delicous? I wouldn't.;)

Are you going to try to maintain it as an F1,or are you going to save seeds and see how genetic segregation might work out for you with additional plant outs?

Carolyn

[QUOTE=NarnianGarden;633539]Yes, mine were pimpinellifolium. They were very productive - plenty of fruits indeed -, but the taste was not much worth mentioning. Thankfully, there are countless other cherry toms with exceptional flavor, so I probably won't be tempted with pimpinellifoliums again.[/QUOTE]

Which cherry variety do you think is the most delicious? Which is your favourite? I would like to compare it with my supersweet Hawaiian currant pimpinellifolium tomato:-)

[QUOTE=carolyn137;633584]I've grown 3 of the 4 Stupike ones, two bred for glass house growing and two for outside growing.

But I much prefer

[URL]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Matina[/URL]

or

[URL]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sophie%27s_Choice[/URL]

The history of how Stupice, as it was called here in the US came here is also interesting, at least to me.

[URL]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Stupice[/URL]

Much of the history shown in the above link there was from Vladimir,also from the Czech Republic as you know.Additional info from Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands from Kes Sahin, whose parent were from Czechkoslovakia. Sahin Seeds was bought out by another Co after Kees passed away.
He could never remember the time difference and would call me at 3 AM with his booming voice to discuss this and that, and yes he also sent me some wonderful dark chocolate from the Netherlands as well.

His passion was really peonies and he had the largest collection of them in the world. I still miss him very much .

About your cross of Latah with a pimp and wondering how delicious the F1 might taste like. Knowing the many pimps I've grown as well as Latah, so you are expecting or hoping for something Delicous? I wouldn't.;)

Are you going to try to maintain it as an F1,or are you going to save seeds and see how genetic segregation might work out for you with additional plant outs?

Carolyn[/QUOTE]

So Matina is your favourite one between early varieties?

Stupice is favourite of Carol Deppe who writes about the variety in her books The Resilient Gardener (now translated to czech) and The Tao of Vegetable Gardening. It is fascinating to see how more than half century old czechoslovakian variety is still valued in the world:-)

Yes, I am expecting and hoping something delicious will arise from my cross, because the pimp Hawaiian currant involved in the cross is exceptionally sweet tomato. My intention is to select the new stable variety with as much earliness and flavour as possible:)

[QUOTE=Marek Kvapil;634035]Which cherry variety do you think is the most delicious? Which is your favourite? I would like to compare it with my supersweet Hawaiian currant pimpinellifolium tomato:-)[/QUOTE]

[url]http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Hawaiian#tab=General_Info[/url]

There already is a very long thread in General Discussion where folks listed the cherry sized tomatoes they like best.

I'd link to it but now that I've started this post I don't want to lose it to go get another link.

And Glenn Drowns at Sandhill Preservation also lists it,but no seeds available for 2017. He lists a few other currants as well.

Carolyn

[QUOTE=carolyn137;634045][URL]http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Hawaiian#tab=General_Info[/URL]

There already is a very long thread in General Discussion where folks listed the cherry sized tomatoes they like best.

I'd link to it but now that I've started this post I don't want to lose it to go get another link.

And Glenn Drowns at Sandhill Preservation also lists it,but no seeds available for 2017. He lists a few other currants as well.

Carolyn[/QUOTE]

Is it this thread?

[url]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=38470[/url]

[QUOTE=Marek Kvapil;634091]Is it this thread?

[url]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=38470[/url][/QUOTE]

Yes, thank you.

Carolyn

Interesting article about the disappearing population of pimpinellifoliums in Peru and about difficulties with saving them:

[I]"The second problem facing scientists such as Chetelat is purely political. Beginning in 1992, members of the United Nations approved a treaty called the Convention on Biological Diversity. It established international regulations on the exploitation of genetic resources, including seeds and plants. If researchers from one nation want to use biological resources from another nation, they must first get its consent and fully inform the donor country about what they plan to do with the material. A corporation or university that profits from use of the biological resources must share the money equitably with the country of origin.

[/I][I]Every single member of the UN but one ratified the treaty, the notable exception being the United States. “Before, you could just take the seeds out of the country and distribute them to researchers and breeders,” Chetelat said. “Now you need prior consent to go in and collect. Then you need a separate permit to export the seeds out of the country. Finally, you have to negotiate an agreement about how you would share any benefits that arise from any seed distribution. It has been impossible to negotiate such agreements with Peru.” Chetelat said he wouldn’t be as concerned if the government of Peru or university scientists there were actively collecting and properly storing wild tomato seeds, similar to the way the country has assembled native potato varieties at its International Potato Center. But Chetelat said that is not being done.[/I]

[I]In the meantime, industrial agriculture continues to overtake former pimp habitat. Chetelat is particularly troubled about northern Peru, the area where pimpinellifolium populations are at their most diverse. “With the agricultural development, we’ve already lost populations we wanted to collect. And the worst thing is that we really don’t know what we are losing,” he said."[/I]


[URL="http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/why-wild-tiny-pimp-tomato-so-important-180955911/"]Why Is This Wild, Pea-Sized Tomato So Important?[/URL]

What a nicely written article! I had some vague knowledge of this, but had not thought about the wild tomatoes much. Thanks for the link!