Spider mites
 

It finally quit raining two days ago and the devastation from EB was really bad. Went out this afternoon and saw little new EB after removing much of the diseased foliage and spraying with bleach spray and then Daconil. What I did find was about a half dozen plants with spider mites on them. It sure didn't take them long to take advantage of a little dry weather. I hit them with the Permethrin, DE, and Dawn spray just before dark. I will check my other newer beds tomorrow and see if they will need treatment yet or if I can wait a while. I hate spider mites.:rant:

I'm sorry to hear that. You sure are having a rough year.

Bill, I am going to echo what Patti wrote.

How can you tell when they are there? What I have read is they are very small and like the underside of the leaves.

The only success I have had against Spider Mites is by applying Monterey Garden Insect Spray early on before a major infestation occurs. Be sure to get the one with Spinosad:

[URL="http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/raybo71/media/IMG_4668_zpstxxrnihf.jpg.html"][IMG]http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a444/raybo71/IMG_4668_zpstxxrnihf.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

(Once you see piles of their "sugar-like" droppings, it is too late).

Raybo;)

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;650469]Bill, I am going to echo what Patti wrote.

How can you tell when they are there? What I have read is they are very small and like the underside of the leaves.[/QUOTE]

The first indication is usually some paling of a few leaves and some light colored stippling showing on the top of the leaves. The leaves infested with them will appear somewhat pale and not as healthy as they should and might look a bit dry. That is about the best I can describe what I look for as first indicators of spider mites. When they get bad it is pretty obvious what the problem is but by then major damage will have been done to the plant. Spotting them early and treating them aggressively is the only way to really control them well. The mix of Permethrin, food grade DE and Dawn dish washing liquid is extremely effective if used early enough and reapplied if it rains or the spider mites return which is not unusual. It doesn't require a long wait time between application and harvest and with the addition of the DE it is fairly long lasting in its effect on spider mites. The problem with most sprays with poisons that are acceptable for food products is that they don't remain effective for long enough to take care of the new mites that come from the eggs so frequent spraying is usually necessary to break their life cycle.

I have not really had a bad season so far. I have had more big pretty tomatoes come off my plants this season than any year I can remember. It has rather been spectacular except for the last week or so because the constant rains finally took their toll on my older plants with rampant EB but not before we had a wonderful harvest of big beautiful tomatoes. I know better than to expect the beautiful plants and great production to remain constant in our climate so I was thankful it lasted as long as it did. Now I am in the normal disease and pest fighting mode which down here usually starts much earlier than it did this year. I still have three smaller beds that were planted latter than the first big planting and I plan to plant at least one more small bed before August so I should make enough to keep us in fresh eating tomatoes right through to cold weather. Of course if the rains keep coming then all bets are off but if I don't make another tomato this year I will still have had one of my best tomato seasons ever.

Bill

Bill your spray has been helpful to me this year. I typically see mites or their damage during my long dry growing season here in SoCal and I can tell it really makes a difference. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Sun City Linda;650542]Bill your spray has been helpful to me this year. I typically see mites or their damage during my long dry growing season here in SoCal and I can tell it really makes a difference. Thanks![/QUOTE]

Linda I wasn't the one to come up with spraying DE as a poison in a solution with water. I can't remember who first mentioned it on this site but I tried it and loved it; but found the 1/4 cup mentioned was not nearly enough to be really effective when the mites were bad. I upped the amount until I started having trouble with my sprayer clogging and then backed off a bit to come up with 2/3 cup to 3/4 cup to a gallon.

Before I would switch back and forth between two or three different poisons and other things every three days trying to stop spider mites. Too much neem oil was a problem and so was using a lot of soap every three days. Permethrin had shown it was effective against the adults for a very short time if enough soap was added but it didn't stop them long because of the mites eggs hatching out continuously. I was surprised how well adding the DE to the mix increased the killing of mites and more importantly the length of time it kept killing them. I also found that using this mix was the perfect solution to thinning out other pests like stink bugs, leaf footed bugs, aphids, flea beetles and whiteflies and the real bonus was how few times it had to be used. I found it even helped with those pesky little foliage worms that can decimate tomato and pepper plants.

The downside of the mix is it kills pretty much everything good and bad in the insect world. I do try not to start using it before the ladybugs abandon my garden which they do every year as soon as it gets hot. I did not see any drop in my honey bees but I always sprayed it late in the evening and didn't use it on squash which is where most of them are found in my garden.

Bill

I've been battling spider mites for a few months now, using the same combo. It knocks them out but they keep on coming back. We've had a really dry few weeks up until this past weekend when it poured. Seems like once they get into a plant they're nearly impossible to get ride of.

It's tedious making sure to hit every single underside of the leaf, wish they'd hang out on the tops so they were easier to spray.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wet
 

[I][QUOTE]DE as a poison in a solution with water[/QUOTE][/I]Is there some mechanism of lethality other than abrasion/cutting? Usual advice is that wetting diatomaceous earth renders it ineffective.

Maybe this is the answer:

[I]When the mixture dries, it has the same dehydrating powers as the original dry dust. When sprayed wet the material covers the foliage and other surfaces better than dusting dry, thus giving better insect control. It seems to last longer when applied wet but the dry application is usually more effective at killing insects quickly. DE has no insect killing power while it is wet.[/I] — [url]https://www.dirtdoctor.com/garden/Diatomaceous-Earth_vq307.htm[/url]

Most years spider mites end up winning the war for my Spring tomatoes. So far, I'm winning this year. I've been aided by some June rain, some overcast skies that kept temps down, and vigilance. This year that has meant neem with permethrin alternating with Take Down insect spray (pyretherins and oil) from Monterrey with soap. I haven't had any luck with Spinosad on spider mites. I plan to use D.E. next spraying for an alternative. I also remove badly infested leaves and make sure they head to the landfill. A few times, I've also gone out and sprayed my plants with water to the point of being soaked in the heat of the afternoon. Spider mites don't care for wet conditions, but, you have to be careful about spreading fungal disease too.

Last year I used a couple of types of beneficial nematodes (cool weather, then hot weather types) and that seemed to help too.

I'm not feeling great about the use of poisons, but, I am feeling good about winning, so far.

[QUOTE=Dewayne mater;650824]Most years spider mites end up winning the war for my Spring tomatoes. So far, I'm winning this year. I've been aided by some June rain, some overcast skies that kept temps down, and vigilance. This year that has meant neem with permethrin alternating with Take Down insect spray (pyretherins and oil) from Monterrey with soap. I haven't had any luck with Spinosad on spider mites. I plan to use D.E. next spraying for an alternative. I also remove badly infested leaves and make sure they head to the landfill. A few times, I've also gone out and sprayed my plants with water to the point of being soaked in the heat of the afternoon. Spider mites don't care for wet conditions, but, you have to be careful about spreading fungal disease too.

Last year I used a couple of types of beneficial nematodes (cool weather, then hot weather types) and that seemed to help too.

I'm not feeling great about the use of poisons, but, I am feeling good about winning, so far.[/QUOTE]

The only poison that I found effective by itself was Malthion but with its longer wait times and its tendency to burn tomato leaves when used at the strengths necessary to kill spider mites I quit using it years ago. By adding the DE and a good TBS of Dawn I am getting even better results with the much milder Permethrin and it is much safer to use. The mites don't build up any resistance to DE that I can see.

Bill

[QUOTE=TexasTomat0;650566]I've been battling spider mites for a few months now, using the same combo. It knocks them out but they keep on coming back. We've had a really dry few weeks up until this past weekend when it poured. Seems like once they get into a plant they're nearly impossible to get ride of.

It's tedious making sure to hit every single underside of the leaf, wish they'd hang out on the tops so they were easier to spray.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I found several things that will help with keeping the mites off for a much longer time. One is to spray with the mix of Permethrin, Dawn and DE and then remove most of the damaged leaves over the next few days then repeat the spraying so you get any leaves you might have missed the first time.

Made sure you are getting as much of the food grade DE into your sprayer as it can handle without clogging constantly. I have found that the heavier the film of DE that shows up when the plants dry the more effective it is. Also make sure to use the Permethrin in a strong enough combination for it to kill the adults quickly.

There is no way to keep the mites off for too long because new ones will come in on the wind and start the whole mess over again within a few weeks if the weather stays dry. I am actually shocked to see them show up this quickly with only two days without rain. I rarely have a problem with them when the weather stays wet but this year they have started moving in despite the wet weather. It started back raining a bit again today and it cooled off so maybe that one spraying that I did will do the trick but I'm afraid I will need to repeat it since a lot of the DE got washed off last night and today.

Bill

Raybo, what do you mean by the mites' "sugar-like" droppings? Can you actually SEE their droppings? The spider mites are so tiny they are almost like gritty dust, I don't think I could ever see their droppings :?!?: Do they sparkle in the sun or something?

do you all ever scout the rest of the garden and remove weeds or even desirable plants that harbor spidermites? if you aren't getting rid of colonies being hosted by other plants reinfestation is imminent. I have a couple elephant ear plants... spidermites LOVE these plants. I have to make sure I am not allowing them to host mites ever. I like the plants so I want to keep them otherwise I would toss them in a heartbeat.

I have found spider mites just covering some weeds and so now I keep them killed down regularly with a bit of Roundup; but that doesn't help with what my neighbors have growing. I don't think it is possible to remove all the surrounding sources of spider mites and they are so small I just know instinctively that they must blow in with the wind or rain. The best option is to remain vigilant and react quickly and decisively when you first see signs of them appearing. Most people around here just give up on their tomatoes around the first of July so there are plenty of host plants for them to breed uncontrollably on. Usually they aren't a big problem until after July and I am one of the few people I know around here that continues to grow through the heat of the summer so I just have to keep fighting them when they show up and they usually do.:dizzy:

Bill

If you get a 30x pocket microscope you can see them and their perfectly spherical eggs. Sometimes other scary stuff too. I'm not sure how they feel when I use mine to check plants at the garden center

[URL="https://www.google.com/search?q=spider+mite+eggs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih=998"]Ewi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih=998[/URL]

[URL]https://www.google.com/search?q=spider+mite+eggs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih=998#tbm=isch&q=30x+pocket+microscope&spf=1498825075868[/URL]

[QUOTE=b54red;651021]I have found spider mites just covering some weeds and so now I keep them killed down regularly with a bit of Roundup; but that doesn't help with what my neighbors have growing. I don't think it is possible to remove all the surrounding sources of spider mites and they are so small I just know instinctively that they must blow in with the wind or rain. The best option is to remain vigilant and react quickly and decisively when you first see signs of them appearing. Most people around here just give up on their tomatoes around the first of July so there are plenty of host plants for them to breed uncontrollably on. Usually they aren't a big problem until after July and I am one of the few people I know around here that continues to grow through the heat of the summer so I just have to keep fighting them when they show up and they usually do.:dizzy:

Bill[/QUOTE]

If you're treating with spinosad, it should be a systemic treatment so it should "last" beyond just the initial knockdown effect.

[QUOTE=Scooty;651113]If you're treating with spinosad, it should be a systemic treatment so it should "last" beyond just the initial knockdown effect.[/QUOTE]

Spinosad is not a systemic. it will not enter the plant and have residual effects on insects. it is applied to the plant and sunlight breaks it down rather quickly so a spreader sticker should be used when applying it.

As per a spinosad fact sheet..... "Spinosad is a natural substance made by a soil bacterium that can be toxic to insects. It is a mixture of two chemicals called spinosyn A and spinosyn D. It is used to control a wide variety of pests. These include thrips, leafminers, spider mites, mosquitoes, ants, fruit flies and others". no where does it say it is a systemic or can be used as a systemic.

Bill I want to try your spray but what is DE?

I am new to this and have tried Neem oil and Organicide 3 in 1 Sesame Oil trying to avoid a pesticide and frankly it helps some but they come back...

I keep all weeds out of my beds... however behind my boxes are some grass that gets taller since I cannot cut it. Does rain or water help get rid of them? Also has anyone used Dill, Cilantro, etc that I read is a good companion plant deterrent?

[QUOTE=HoustonHeat;651153]Bill I want to try your spray but what is DE?

I am new to this and have tried Neem oil and Organicide 3 in 1 Sesame Oil trying to avoid a pesticide and frankly it helps some but they come back...[/QUOTE]

DE is diatomaceous earth. You also need to use the food grade quality DE. I also use the 10% Permethrin at stronger than the label recommends for both spider mites and stink bugs because they are so hard to kill. Make sure you get the livestock and vegetable grade Permethrin and not the one used for termites. I would not mind using the natural pyretrin but the cost is ridiculous now that so many people have gone organic. When I was young it was very cheap but now it is like buying gold.

Bill

[QUOTE=clkeiper;651140]Spinosad is not a systemic. it will not enter the plant and have residual effects on insects. it is applied to the plant and sunlight breaks it down rather quickly so a spreader sticker should be used when applying it.

As per a spinosad fact sheet..... "Spinosad is a natural substance made by a soil bacterium that can be toxic to insects. It is a mixture of two chemicals called spinosyn A and spinosyn D. It is used to control a wide variety of pests. These include thrips, leafminers, spider mites, mosquitoes, ants, fruit flies and others". no where does it say it is a systemic or can be used as a systemic.[/QUOTE]

That was my initial understanding until I stumbled on the following. Try it hydroponically. It works.

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16180075[/url]

"Surprisingly, when spinosad was applied to the roots of tomato plants in rock wool, excellent control of spider mites was obtained. Apparently, spinosad has systemic properties and quantities as low as 1 mg/plant could protect tomato plants from mite infestation."

[QUOTE=decherdt;651026]If you get a 30x pocket microscope you can see them and their perfectly spherical eggs. Sometimes other scary stuff too. I'm not sure how they feel when I use mine to check plants at the garden center

[URL="https://www.google.com/search?q=spider+mite+eggs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih=998"]Ewi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih=998[/URL]

[URL]https://www.google.com/search?q=spider+mite+eggs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih=998#tbm=isch&q=30x+pocket+microscope&spf=1498825075868[/URL][/QUOTE]

I agree, a 30X magnifier is great for that.
Another very useful tool for looking for mites is a good digital camera or smart phone camera that can take some clear closeup shots. I did this today after I noticed some funny looking yellowing on some lower leaves of some tomato plants. Yep, there are mites there.

This year I planted marigolds around my tomatoes in containers. Then I read that they attract spider mites. I almost yanked them up but I decided to leave them. Maybe the spider mites will leave the tomatoes alone? I had to thin the marigolds out a few days ago and saw no signs of mites.

[QUOTE=RayR;651490]I agree, a 30X magnifier is great for that.
Another very useful tool for looking for mites is a good digital camera or smart phone camera that can take some clear closeup shots. I did this today after I noticed some funny looking yellowing on some lower leaves of some tomato plants. Yep, there are mites there.[/QUOTE]

Ray I am pretty sure those are aphids. Typical green tear drop shaped body, no spots, only 6 legs.

[QUOTE=Scooty;651484]That was my initial understanding until I stumbled on the following. Try it hydroponically. It works.

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16180075[/url]

"Surprisingly, when spinosad was applied to the roots of tomato plants in rock wool, excellent control of spider mites was obtained. Apparently, spinosad has systemic properties and quantities as low as 1 mg/plant could protect tomato plants from mite infestation."[/QUOTE]

so, even if this works hydroponically it is still only working in rockwool growing media. "Different substrates with varying percentage of clay and organic matter were tested in comparison with rockwool and showed that sufficient control was restricted to the rockwool substrate." I would venture to guess most of us here aren't growing hydroponically?

[QUOTE=ginger2778;651505]Ray I am pretty sure those are aphids. Typical green tear drop shaped body, no spots, only 6 legs.[/QUOTE]

Good eye Marsha!:yes: These aphid nymphs are so tiny that they can't be seen with the naked eye, but the camera easily exposes them. I know a lot of people would be fooled by the spotting and yellowing of the leaves into thinking it was a fungal problem like Septoria or bacterial spot or speck.

In the case of spider mites, my camera may not be able to pick up details of the mites body but probably show the black spots on the two spotted mites. We'll see, it's not hot and dry enough yet up here for spider mites to thrive but I'll be checking often because you never know.

[QUOTE=clkeiper;651509]so, even if this works hydroponically it is still only working in rockwool growing media. "Different substrates with varying percentage of clay and organic matter were tested in comparison with rockwool and showed that sufficient control was restricted to the rockwool substrate." I would venture to guess most of us here aren't growing hydroponically?[/QUOTE]

I think we're getting hung up on the definition of systemic. By systemic I mean kill by ingestion. Spinosad does both. Contact and ingestion.

Dow Chemical was the one who first introduced spinosad products to the US back in 1997. They use to hand out a pamphlet and it's on their current Conserve product "Spinosad works by contact and by ingestion. Contact occurs either by direct application to the insect or by movement of the insect onto a treated surface. Ingestion occurs as insects feed on treated substrate (such as foliage). While control via contact is highly effective, control via ingestion is 5 - 10 times more effective."

"However it is comparatively non-toxic to mammals and beneficial insects. Only insects that actually ingest the plant material that was treated, such as leaf matter, are affected. Spinosad is partly taken up by leaf tissue and this enhances its effectiveness over time. Dry surface residues do little harm to non-plant feeding insects." (Saunders and Brett 1997).

As far as nutrient uptake. It's not exactly new practice. [url]http://web.pppmb.cals.cornell.edu/resourceguide/pdf/resource-guide-for-organic-insect-and-disease-management.pdf[/url] It's currently used as seed treatment for onions. I don't see why one can't also do the same for 'maters, especially if you're in an area where you're constantly battling thrips, spider mites, hornworms, etc.. etc..

I have been using this and it has worked great on my heirloom plants. However, something is still munching on my basil. I've tried EVERYTHING! I have my earthboxes on a balcony in the city. I put beer out as a last resort to see if it was slugs even though I've never seen one here my entire life. No luck. The potting mix is new and I used a new earthbox for the basil. The only thing I see hanging around are flys and things that look like little flying gnats. I have mulch covers on but that doesn't seem to deter what ever this invisible monster is.....any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Btw this is the first year that I've experienced this:( thank you

I just learned the other day that Spinosad is highly toxic to bees.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad[/url]

Being systemic, I wonder how much ends up in the pollen? :?!?: Not sure if that has been studied yet. Most sources say it's less toxic to bees when dried.