Soil conditioning help
 

I built my raised bed ( 9'x36' ) 6 years ago. It is my first veggie garden so I just winged it and filled it with with topsoil. i have been doing no til the last 5 years and my garden soil is now seems like it is mostly clay and compacted.

Here is what I am thinking of doing and would appreciate feedback or a better plan if you have one. I am planning on tilling it about 6-8" deep and add about 3" of cotton burr compost and til it again. Is there anything else I should add? Is the cotton burr compost the recommended treatment to loosen up the soil? I appreciate your help.

Beuller?



Bueller?


Bueller?

Anyone?:)

Hi Steve. Since I had never heard of cotton burr compost i had to look it up. Sounds like some people say it is really good stuff others warn about it having Herbicides in it, so I don't think that I would use it. Do you have access to lead type compost or check with a local nursery to see what they suggest Mike

Hey Steve,

I had to look up "no-till". I'm gonna research the topic further, but, at first blush, "no-till" makes no sense to me. It goes against every notion of "soil conditioning" that I have ever heard of. What's the purpose/attraction? No offense intended, but I just don't get it....

Jon

No till leaves the biota intact. You don't mess with the good bacteria, you don't rototill the worms into pieces, etc. You put amendments on top each year: compost, leaves, other organic stuff. Your worms & good bacteria & other microherds come up and help it all decompose.

Nan

Hmmm...I'll look at it more closely. Seems counterintuitive, tho....

Used leaf compost, washed river sand in fall, adding promix compost to beds with ground cotton and soybean meal to beds. Adding taller 12"-16" to downhill sides of 4' x 45' beds to retain amends (monsoon season down here) . Used old composted cotton seed hulls years ago and was great to break up the clay, but quit due to fears what chemicals are in there. Using a heavy hay mulch this year, and will be working it in when it breaks down . Had hay on top of a couple of Hugelkultur beds last year that did great and the soil is really great there now.

Spagnum pear moss would be an excellent choice to help water retention and soil composition.

Top soil - there are virtually no guidelines on what can go into top soil that is purchase so steer clear from it unless you know where it’s coming from and what it is.

Could also add in some organic materials - alfalfa pellets, leaf mold, vermocompost to give them a shot of life.

You should be fine either double digging the beds or just amending the top 4-6 inches and not disturb the no too environment.

I’m using a similar no till setup and my composition is 1::1:1 peat; compost: and aeration material. I use pumice but it’s pricey if you’ve got a lot of area. Sand or lava rock would work also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks you for the feedback and info. I have been reading online for about a week about cotton burr compost as it was recommended by the local nursery I frequent. I have read about all of the chemicals used in cotton production in the south and that concerns me. I have also read very little chemicals are used in cotton production in NW Texas and it is the good stuff to use.

I also grow in containers with ProMix and using the previous years mix in the garden, mainly focusing it in the planting rows. I have about 3 bails worth from last year to apply this year. There is also a lot of mushroom compost available locally, but the nursery people said the cotton burr compost would work better at breaking up the clay. I am really not sure of what I am going to do, but I need to do something this year. I really appreciate your input into this. No till worked great for me for several years, but last year was very disappointing.

I to do no till,I have been putting in a winter cover crop the last 5 or 6 years of hairy vetch and winter rye.The rye has such a thick root system that took longer than I wanted to break down after I mowed it down to kill it in the spring so it was hard planting through the roots doing no till.I used tillage radishes this year and it looks like the soil is very loose with lot of holes left over from the radishes that have decomposed into the soil.I also have plenty of worms and hope this will help keep the soil loose.I will not know how loose the soil is until I start planting my tomato and pepper plants in late May.I'm going to spread alfalfa pellets throughout the garden in a few weeks,the rain we get after in the spring will break down the pellets and should get the worms in action.I still see some radishes that need to decompose but the worms will help with that.Look up tillage radishes and see if you like the idea,it may help you this fall.Just a suggestion.:)

[QUOTE=Goodloe;690364]Hmmm...I'll look at it more closely. Seems counterintuitive, tho....[/QUOTE]

Better yet tell us why you feel this way then we can give better answers.
There are reasons for tilling and then there are reasons not to.
It really depends on the soil and your long and short term expectations.
Tilling/plowing caused one of the greatest environmental catastrophes known to man.
What took many thousands of years to make was blown away in less than a decade.

Worth

Bummer SteveP I have to deal with clay soil too. I've never used compost burr, but my nursery recommends tilling it in.

If your soil is in really badly compacted, I agree some manual intervention is necessary unless you have a few seasons to wait for natural processes. I have tried many but none is a once and done quick solution.

Clay soil does need some type of maintenance to counterbalance settling. I've done the cover crops as in post 10 and [B]it is my best bed[/B]. The roots were too difficult for me to turn over. I had to cut it down and wait a year for the roots to decompose.

I've added Black Cow compost just by layering and it was wonderful in moderation. Too much just sitting on top and it adds to the compaction. I dug deep planting holes to mix the compost in and now it is good. I didn't see any benefit to just topping it to a 12 inch raised bed, it gave me another layer to chisel thru.

One year a friend thought I should use pretty wood chips as mulch, so I bought pine bark nuggets for the tomato bed. I had to lay it on thick to tame the weeds. At the end of the season I scraped off the top layer to save it in the garage for the next year. What was left behind partially decomposed over the winter and by season two left a very nice crumbly layer that was folded in at the next planting.

Leaves (mostly shredded) just sat on top and didn't compost in a very dry winter. Again, folding them in was key. It does take a season to decompose or you will have a very crunchy top layer to work with that year. If you have normal moisture , they will decompose if they are shredded. Large leaves are a mucky mess.

A local friend scoots around on a ride on and adds bags of sand to her clay soil when she plants and has a wonderful yard. On the opposite side I have a bed filled with purchased topsoil that was very sandy and it is a concrete mess now so approach with caution.

A mix of amendments imho will be much improved over a singe ingredient .

- Lisa

Try digging in gypsum if you can get it, then work in and layer some of that mushroom compost on top. Make the top layer good and thick and basically plant into that, then at the end of the next season work that in as well. May take several years to rebuild the organic matter levels in your soil.

Woz

[QUOTE=SteveP;690118]Is there anything else I should add? [/QUOTE]

Not [B]should[/B], but [B]could[/B] add, grass clippings, shredded leaves, home made compost, shredded paper, shredded cardboard like pizza boxes, sphagnum peat moss, straw, yard trimmings from stuff like shrubs and hedges, Coarse Bio-char (charged). The Bio-char really adds tilth.
Rabbit manure/and bedding if you can get some. Coffee Grounds from Starbucks.
Compost directly in the garden with vegetable scraps.

I'm not a fan of tilling but you may want to get some organic stuff tilled in then start using lasagna type gardening to build the soil. Thin layers is best so each layer doesn't become compacted.

Leaving the roots intact from the prior years harvest will help keep the soil from compaction.

If you weren't planting this year I would say add some mulch/wood chips.

Another thing to do to avoid compaction is, in the fall, either plant a winter kill cover crop like Crimson Clover and Oats.
Or at the least top dress the beds with mulch or cardboard.

Pictures would give us a better idea.

I'm a fan of Hugelkultur and Lasagna Gardening, I like tossing everything in there.:D

I do what I call [B]Limited Tilling[/B] which means that I till in organic materials once a year in the fall. I do not have raised beds so my soil gets very compacted during the growing season by walking on it.

No Till has a lot of people who love it but No Till does not mean that you never do anything to the soil. You still need to be adding amendments such as compost and other organic materials routinely, you just do not till them under, you allow nature to do the work for you and you should not be walking on the garden since it will cause compaction. Many no till people have raised beds.

If your soil is becoming compacted I would say that you have probably not been adding mulch and other amendments to the soil and it is probably time to do that. At this point if you have compaction, then you will probably need to till some organic materials into the soil to fluff it up but if you decide to remain no till after that then you should be adding layers of organic material to the top of your soil routinely.

Thank you all for your feedback and recommendations. I have not been adding much to build up the soil in my garden. I have used Black Kow and some ProMix, mostly along the planting rows. We have a small city lot with zero trees, so I don't have leaves to mulch. I do have a close friend who has a lawn care business so grass clippings and mulched leaves in the fall should be doable. There is also a Starbucks within a mile of the house and I will see about getting some coffee grounds. I will plan on add about 6 cu ft of ProMix and tilling it into the top 6" of soil. I don't plant my garden until the end of April, so time is running out. I also bought several (smaller) bags of TomatoTone and GardenTone at the end of last fall for cheap and am considering tilling some of it in when I till in the ProMix. Will also add a few bags of BlackKow again also.

Something I have been needing to do and never seem to get done is a soil analysis by the county extension office. I think I will do that later this week and see what they recommend for Ph and nutrients. What I think I have learned is I need to focus more on building a good soil and not solely on growing the plants. Thank you again for all of your suggestions. I have a much better understanding of what I need to work on.

Well, I spent a big portion of the day yesterday afternoon trying to get my Mantis tiller running. Rubbed a big blister between my fingers pulling on the gosh darn noodley thing. So I youtubed it and with some minor carborator adjustments, had it working like a champ within 5 minutes this morning. Major victory for me as I am NOT a mechanical type and usually screw things up worse.

They are calling for rain and thunderstorms moving in Sunday, so I decided to wing it as best I could. Here is what I am doing and am half way done after about 90 minutes of work and several short sit down breaks.

Tilled a row about 18" wide and 6" deep. I added about 3" of Back To Nature Cotton Burr compost and tilled that in with the soil. This left about a 5" trench. To the trench I added about 10 gallons of year old rabbit manure, a bag of Black Kow, a couple of inches of last years ProMix, some diatomaceous earth and some Garden Tone that I bought at the end of last season for $3. Worked it together with a garden for and raked the soil/ cotton burr compost back over the trench which made about a 4" mounded row.
So, I am half done and have 1 more row to duplicate the above process. Hopefully it will be a winner because last year was not good.

On the Cotton Burr Compost I read the Back to Nature (made in NW Texas) was the one to use because they don't spray their cotton to defoliate before picking. They just wait for a killing frost to defoliate. It really looked like good rich stuff and is supposed to be excellent for breaking up clay soils in the garden.
Now back to work because I also have 2 flower beds in the front that need major attention too. Thank you all again for recommendations. Even though I didn't follow anyone exact recommendations, it made me give it lots of thought and I also spoke to 2 Local master gardeners who highly recommended the Cotton compost for our local soil. I had everything on hand except the 4 bags of $8 compost.

Update- my raised bed garden is doing great so far, noticeably better than the last few years. I know I winged it with amendments this spring, but it appears I sure didn't hurt anything. I know I need to do the right thing and get my soil tested by the county extension, which I will after this season. I have been very negligent in taking advantage of a very useful resource.

Well, the results are what counts, Steve, and if it's looking good, that's success! Congratulations!

Nan

[QUOTE=Nan_PA_6b;700797]Well, the results are what counts, Steve, and if it's looking good, that's success! Congratulations!

Nan[/QUOTE]

Thank you Nan. I have been pretty neglectful in building a healthy soil the last 5-6 years. My laziness is my worst gardening enemy. The joys of getting older.

Oh. me too. I'm going no-till partly because it's getting harder to use the tiller.:lol:

But those aches & pains really make you find ways to streamline your gardening. :)

I'm going to cover crop this fall, some winter-killed radishes, oats & peas. Get my nitrogen, break up the clay, with as little work as possible.

Nan

[QUOTE=Nan_PA_6b;700806]Oh. me too. I'm going no-till partly because it's getting harder to use the tiller.:lol:

But those aches & pains really make you find ways to streamline your gardening. :)

I'm going to cover crop this fall, some winter-killed radishes, oats & peas. Get my nitrogen, break up the clay, with as little work as possible.

Nan[/QUOTE]

I did the no till- do nothing method the last few years. It was easy, but the results suffered.:dizzy:

I put down weed mat like I always did planned on putting 3-4" of straw on top of that for moisture retention but the 3 bales I bought at Lowes was full of seeds. Decided to plant peppers in the bales.
I decided to buy some bales of compressed pine shavings (fine) and am using those instead. I will remove the weed mat this fall and work the pine shaving into the soil a little to help decompose. The work what's left into the soil next spring. I am really trying to break up this wad of clay I affectionately call a garden.:D

Yes, my garden is heavy clay also. Hoping the tillage radishes will break it up some.

Nan

[QUOTE=Nan_PA_6b;700833]Yes, my garden is heavy clay also. Hoping the tillage radishes will break it up some.

Nan[/QUOTE]

Nan, I should have said that my concept of no till was that I basically did nothing to the soil. And that is exactly what I did to the soil, nothing. Every year I dug a hole and planted a plant. I just had no concept of what no till required. My ignorance was my problem.

Dont forget to keep feeding the soil. I believe the Espoma recommends once per month for their products. Check the label for the product you have.


My next feeding is June 1st for my Greenhouse Maters. It was a little slow, kicking in, but dont want to screw it up now by forgetting to feed.

[QUOTE=Nan_PA_6b;700833]Yes, my garden is heavy clay also. Hoping the tillage radishes will break it up some.

Nan[/QUOTE]

I also grew tillage radishes as my winter cover crop,the problem I have is the leaves all have decomposed leaving bare ground which then cracked badly and then we had all this rain yesterday.Today I put 12- 40 pound bags of composted cow manure that I spread across the surface after I took my garden fork and loosened the soil.I don't want to till it in as I have been doing no till the last couple years and have many earthworms but have a problem with clay soil.Very frustrating and I have used cover crops for many years.:roll:

[QUOTE=FourOaks;700871]Dont forget to keep feeding the soil. I believe the Espoma recommends once per month for their products. Check the label for the product you have.


My next feeding is June 1st for my Greenhouse Maters. It was a little slow, kicking in, but dont want to screw it up now by forgetting to feed.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the reminder FourOaks. I fertilized again yesterday and today we have gotten over 2" of welcome rain. I set my plants a little over 3 weeks ago and they were about 4" showing above ground. They are now up to my waist and are heavy with blooms and small fruit. I am using a combo of fish emulsion, Lady Bug John's Recipe, liquid kelp and worm tea to fertilize every 2 weeks after putting 1/4 C of Garden Tone mixed in the bottom of each hole at planting.I sprayed for disease prevention 4 days ago and also insect control as I saw a bunch of ants around the perimeter of the raised bed. After all the rain I will re spray the fungicide. I seemed to get what I think is early blight each season so I am attempting to keep in front of it this year. At this early stage they look very happy.