PH's 2018 Cutflower Trial
 

So I wanted to document my hand at cutflowers this year.
I am doing Sunflowers, Karma Dahlias, and 4 types of coneflowers.
Not putting pressure on myself to market these like it's my job, cause it's not.
I just want to see if I can get the production side down and take it from there.
I hope to sell enough to cover costs (which are minimal) and establish relationships with buyers and see what is possible for 2019.

Got my Karma Dahlia plugs yesterday from Gloekner's. Nicest plugs I've ever seen. Very pleased. Hope to plant them today when I get home from work. I have 576 to do, but the spot is prepped and the root plug is only about the size of an adult male's thumb. I hope to just push them into the soil through the holes in my fabric (no trowel or auger with the drill which takes more time). Well' see.

Here are some pics:

Dahlia Bed ready to plant. The bed on the left has since had the holes burned in for the middle row. All the way to the left outside the tunnel, you can see the ends of the two beds that have 2 types of coneflowers:

[ATTACH]81092[/ATTACH]

Sunflower beds. 1st 100' row was planted 2 saturdays ago, Up in 7 days. Can't see them though in this pic. Left bed is still in last year's strawberries, but I am doing sowings every 2 weeks, so I have a month to get it turned over. I still have two rows to plant in the bed on the right.
To the left, you can see the ends of two beds with wood chips that have the other 2 types of coneflowers I planted:

[ATTACH]81093[/ATTACH]

Dahlia packaging:

[ATTACH]81094[/ATTACH]

Karma Dahlia Flat:

[ATTACH]81095[/ATTACH]

All 8 flats of karmas:

[ATTACH]81096[/ATTACH]

Close up of one plug:

[ATTACH]81097[/ATTACH]

Both the Dahlia and Sunflower areas will get a single layer of plastic over the beds on the caterpillar tunnel frame to keep rain etc from beating up the plants and spreading disease. Drip tape on each row in the beds. Beds 3' wide with 3 rows in each bed 1' apart. Sunflowers every 6", Dahlias every foot.
Both crops got 20lbs of actual nitrogen applied via 4-1-8 chicken manure based fert before planting. Will drip feed the Dahlias with calcium nitrate but not the Sunflowers.

Wow, those plugs really are nice. I am jealous. I wish I could order dahlia plugs, but I had no idea that it was something one has to do months in advance. I have dinner plate dahlia tubers sprouting in my high tunnel right now.

We're on the same journey. It's my first year trying cut flowers. My seeds are just now coming up. I will be sure to share my successes and numerous failures.

Cole, sounds good.
If slugs, bugs, and disease don't take my plants out, I'm gonna have a lot of stems to cut.
Lots of marketing decisions to make. CSA, wholesale to distributor or florists or produce stands. Make arrangements and sell through friends, family, co-workers, grocery stores.
Having a background in ornamental horticulture, I want so badly to grow a mess of stuff and make arrangements. But, it's not realistic for the time I have available, plus the distribution.
So I am just sticking with the 3 crops above. Most likely will do most to florists at wholesale in bunches of 10.

Not directly related, just curious. Your Tunnel, are the hoops metal or pvc? Im considering building a dedicated shade house. Might just do Electrical Conduit with something like 8 foot spacing.

Those plugs are beautiful. They should mature quickly and be producing blossoms in a very short time.

Cole those dinner plate dahlia's are going to need some sturdy staking, so be prepared.

[QUOTE=FourOaks;699402]Not directly related, just curious. Your Tunnel, are the hoops metal or pvc? Im considering building a dedicated shade house. Might just do Electrical Conduit with something like 8 foot spacing.[/QUOTE]

They are metal. 5’ apart.
Got it from farmer’s friend llc
I added the center purlin, windbrace, and wiggle wire channels upgrade kit.
The ropes did not keep the plastic from sliding down over to one side when wind came perpendicular to the length of the tunnel.
I am gonna use wiggle wire on the ends and on top of the bows about 1/3 of the way in from each end. I expect this to keep the cover from moving down to the side.
I most likely will take the plastic down the the ground and attach a baseboard from side to side and have some 2x4 studs too to attach the plastic to. Maybe do a door. Don’t really need one, Because you can just enter from anywhere along the sides.
Their tunnel kits are a great value and easy and quick to build. They say two hrs, which might really mean how long it takes to put the hoops and plastic/ropes on the rebar stakes once you’ve driven them in and assuming you’ve already built the hoops which are 3 pieces.

Got all the plugs in last night.
Took me 3 hrs to plant 8 trays. 72 per tray, so 576 plants.
Just wanted to mention this in case people want to know the labor requirements for one person. beds were already prepped and covered with fabric.
No drilling or trowel. Just pulled a slot open with my finger and pushed them in.
Then watered them in with a wand on the end of a hose.
I will install drip tape today after work.

[ATTACH]81122[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]81123[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]81124[/ATTACH]

nice. that is a lot of work. the plugs look fantastic, too. I have never even thought of ordering dahlia plugs. never crossed my mind. now I have taken cuttings of them to make my own plugs... unfortunately none of my dahlia tubers survived the storage this Winter. maybe too cold maybe not humid enough? no idea. all shriveled up but the gladiola corms I dug last year some were the size of my palm.... already rooting and sprouting. oops. got those in last night though. but the dahlias? sigh.

Some updated pics:

Here are the Karma Dahlias. Planted plugs on 5/10, so not quite 1 month in the ground. Pinched the tops out about 2 weeks ago when they had 3-4 sets of leaves. Lateral branches are all pushing out fast now. Gonna get the plastic on this tunnel hopefully tomorrow. Gonna leave work at noon and hope it is not too windy...

[ATTACH]81960[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]81961[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]81962[/ATTACH]


Here are the sunflowers. Tallest row was planted 6 weeks ago this Saturday, next row 4 weeks ago, and third row 2 weeks ago (hard to see, they are only 2" tall). 4th row needs to go in this Saturday for me to stay on my every 2 weeks sowing schedule. I still need to pull out last years strawberries in the bed to the left.

[ATTACH]81963[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]81964[/ATTACH]

Sunflowers and Dahlias are finally showing some growth spurts.
We've had record cool temps and rain this May/June. Many cloudy days. This whole week is supposed to be sunny and 80's finally.
I think I will see some color on my first sunflower sowing in the next week. They will be 49 days from seed on Saturday. The earliest DTM of the 3 varieties is 50-55 days (Procut Orange Excel).
Dahlias have been in the ground just shy of 5 weeks. Lateral stems are really growing and are thick and strong. Thinking another month on those at least.

[ATTACH]82121[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]82122[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]82123[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]82124[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]82125[/ATTACH]

Really looking good.:yes:

Wow, things are growing like crazy. Everything looks marvelous. I can't wait to see it all full of blooms.

Thanks guys.
I'm calling a florist today that has 4 locations.
Hoping they will be interested in some dahlias, as I hope to have hundreds of marketable stems.
Sunflowers aren't that big of a deal, as I don't have that many and the seeds are dirt cheap and were my only purchased input.
My goal has been to see if I could turn a marketable crop. I would be happy just sharing the sunflowers with folks to put a smile on their face and have color in my office and at home.
Now, the Dahlias I have a around $800 bucks in, so I need to sell a bunch of them to at least break even.
I may just have to make the 2 hour drive to south Jersey to the floral distributor (if they will buy my dahlias) to move the quantity I will have.
If that works out, I may plant two tunnel's worth next year to make the trip worth it and pay a driver to make the trip. We'll see what the season brings with bugs, disease, quality and labor...

I was afraid you were ignoring the "labor" factor in your calculations until you finally mentioned it. From what I see in your operation you have enormous personal labor invested in this. Its a good thing you love it! Whatever it may be, you look to be doing an excellent job.


[QUOTE=PureHarvest;704033]Thanks guys.
I'm calling a florist today that has 4 locations.
Hoping they will be interested in some dahlias, as I hope to have hundreds of marketable stems.
Sunflowers aren't that big of a deal, as I don't have that many and the seeds are dirt cheap and were my only purchased input.
My goal has been to see if I could turn a marketable crop. I would be happy just sharing the sunflowers with folks to put a smile on their face and have color in my office and at home.
Now, the Dahlias I have a around $800 bucks in, so I need to sell a bunch of them to at least break even.
I may just have to make the 2 hour drive to south Jersey to the floral distributor (if they will buy my dahlias) to move the quantity I will have.
If that works out, I may plant two tunnel's worth next year to make the trip worth it and pay a driver to make the trip. We'll see what the season brings with bugs, disease, quality and labor...[/QUOTE]

Outstanding

They sure do look great. Will be watching with interest to see how the economics work out for you. And to see the flowers of course... natch!!! :cute::D

PH,

You're doing a great job! What varieties of Karma Dahlias are you growing?

A few questions/things to consider:

Are you planning on disbudding and selling stems without side growth or are you selling stems with lateral growth and buds in addition to the terminal flower? Your plants are very consistent in size and, since you topped them all at the same time, you might get a huge flush of flowers all at about the same time and make marketing more of a challenge. You want to aim for a consistent supply throughout the season. Maybe experiment with a few plants and disbud each lateral down 2-3 nodes (depending on variety). This will give you longer stems, slightly larger flowers, and start the next flush of blooms sooner (and help stagger the crop).

All growers here (So Cal) sell bunches of 5 stems. I think you might get a better price per stem if you do 5/bunch instead of 10. It is a psychological thing - 2 bunches of 5 stems look like more flowers than one bunch of 10.

Have you started a spray program?

Good luck on your venture!
Steve

Heritage, I am growing Sangria, Bon Bini, Thalia, Corona Pink, Goldie, Yin Yang, Fox Red and Fox Maroon.

When you say disbud laterals, do you mean doing a second pinch? As in pinching the terminal growing point on the current laterals? I had read some do a second pinch and had considered it. It would be nice to stagger the crop by doing this like you point out.
I was not planning on selling any stems with lateral buds. Single flower stems only.

I am not spraying because I don't see issues yet. I found one slug this morning but it has been dry this week. I will put Sluggo down as an insurance plan.
Although did see a bunch of tiny light green bugs flitting when I handled the plants this weekend. At first I thought they were whiteflies because of the way that they behaved. But they are some type of hopper/leafhopper. I'm not seeing any damage yet, but a spray might be in order. Gonna be hard to get something on the underside of the leaf where they hang out. Not to mention they hop away when you go to spray/handle the plants.

A few plants have some powdery mildew on the oldest/lowest leaves. The planting is in a tunnel, so I'm hoping lack of splashing rain will keep the threshold low. I don't like spraying anything, even organic. It's a pain and time-consuming. But I'm willing if the product works. Not sure what I'd use though...

disbudding is taking off all the side buds and leaving the first and central bud to form the largest and spectacular of flowers on each and every stem. this is a lot of work but well worth the effort. you might want to do both as there is a market for disbudded flowers and a market for pinched or "spray" stems of flowers. I worked in a greenhouse that grows the nicest roses grown locally ... as in not south of the border in central america... they were not cheap to buy... they were absolutely beautiful... I worked in the rose house ONE day and said I would never do it again. I had a new appreciation for those who did dsibudding. arms raised above your head all day long with thorns scratching your armpit sides as you straddled the isles on the edges of each bed and reached across the bed for each and every stem . or you worked in the mum house hunched over disbudding the mums to make football mums for the flowershops or pinching out the top bud on the potted mums to make flowershop pots of mums in 6" pots... Dahlias are the same way. you can either disbud all the side buds for one stem with one flower or pinch out the center bud for sprays or leave some with the center bud and the side buds too. depends on the florists needs or wants.

I follow you.
So basically not allowing new shoots to form along the current set of laterals I have growing. Only the main stem and it's terminal flower.
I guess what I was reading about was pinching the lateral's grow tip to get it to produce laterals for more stems.

You have s nice selection of colors. You will probably want to add a white next season. Surprisingly, white is, by far, the biggest selling color here. Yellow is the least favorite color. For the last 5 years I haven’t been able to give away a yellow dahlia even in the fall. The color trends change over the years and you will get to know your local preferences, maybe you already do.

Carolyn did a great job of describing disbudding, and I agree, you might want to try both methods. I imagine you now have 6-8 laterals depending on how far down you topped the plants. These will be the stems you sell. As these stems grow you will notice they develop their own laterals. When these side laterals get to be about 1-3 inches long remove them by bending them down until they break off (this is cleaner and faster than “pinching” the growth off). Notice the top has a central bud with two laterals, One of these laterals will be another bud. On some of the plants, maybe leave both the central bud and the one side bud, instead of just the central bud. This will give you some leeway on the timing. If you need to hold the bloom for an extra week you will be able to remove the older central flower and allow the side bud to open. It will already be showing color so will open within a week. Disbudding is a labor-intensive job. I enjoy the mindless job of disbudding but I have to hire help to disbud because it is too much for me to handle alone.

I didn’t intend to be so wordy.:) I’ll post about spraying later…

Steve

I am going crazy not being able to follow the flower progress. I can not see the photos from ph in this thread or the 2018 growing garlic thread. I have tried signing in again but just get the name of the photo. Can someone help with a go around for this problem? Thank you


- Lisa

Lisa I have that problem in any of Gerardo’s threads.
Nobody has responded when I’ve asked about that.
I can’t see my pics when I post, just the names.
I right click on them and choose open in a new window.
In that new window is the login for your username and password.
I enter both and the pic comes up in that new window, usually sideways even tough I edit
My photos after I download them from my phone to hard drive.
I then click back on the original window of the thread I was in and hit the refresh button and all the pics load in that thread. Not sure if you’ve tried this exact method.
I think it must be the operating system of the computer any of us use.
If I’m on TV on my iPhone I can’t see any of my pics, nor can I do the method described above.

Thanks Steve, that is very helpful.
How many dahlia plants do you grow per year?
I really didn’t know about disbudding. All the guides I read never mentioned what you just
shared.
Not sure that I will have a whole lot of time to disbud.
Checked the plants tonight and there seems to be less leafhopper activity than the other day.
In fact, they were harder to find.
Mildew seems, not surprisingly, cultivar specific. Overall for the planting it may be on 10% of the crop, with Yin Yang being the majority of the ones showing symptoms.
So I guess the tunnel is not as a big help as I thought for powdery mildew, as I read it does not need water to spread like other foliar diseases.
Perhaps I should have begun doing weekly Cooper sprays (if that is safe and effective) a couple weeks ago. I have a bag of the really good stuff that is copper soap. It’s reddish if I recall. Can’t remember the brand but I think it’s made in Europe.
Lastly, talked to a florist today with 4 locations that also does a little wholesaling.
Supposed to hear back from her about buying dahlias. She had to dig up some numbers of what she bought and paid last year. She’s been kind to share that with me.

[QUOTE=PureHarvest;704770]
I guess what I was reading about was pinching the lateral's grow tip to get it to produce laterals for more stems.[/QUOTE]

Pinching as you are doing is common and you can either do it that way or disbud the first flower, there are advantages to both methods. If you "top" the first stem your laterals will probably develop faster and you will see the main flush sooner. If you disbud the first stem it is effectively the same as topping - the laterals will develop slightly slower but you will get a bloom from the main stem sooner and this will give you a preview and more time to establish a market before the main flush hits.

Pinching twice is common when dahlias are grown in containers and sold as potted plants. You get more blooms, and a more compact plant, but the stems are too short to use as cut flowers.

Steve

PH, I share your distaste for spraying, it is the only part of growing dahlias I dislike. Wearing a respirator and protective clothing is miserable but I don’t know of any other way to raise dahlias commercially. Hopefully, the disease/pest pressure will not be too great in your area and you will not have to spray often. Here, I spray every 7-10 days.

I spray preemptively for powdery mildew. PM does best under humid conditions but it does almost as well in dry, hot weather. It can spread fast and cover an entire field within a week. As you noted, some varieties are more susceptible than others. PM is not easy to control once it is established so the best bet is to spray fungicides regularly as a preventative.

PH, I didn't know you were near S. Jersey. I lived in that area 28 years ago. Besides loving the people from there, I had a fantastic "Jersey Fresh" amateur garden. Diversifying into cut flowers is a wise decision. Lots of vegetable stands and produce specialty stores; a welcome perk of the area when I lived in an apartment but competitive from the grower's perspective.



Thank you for the instructions. I've clicked on this thread a dozen times and only saw text, but the photos suddenly appeared without any extra steps. I'm off to see if the garlic thread will show photos, and return to see the dahlia bed in greater detail. I hope to have time to interest my garden club to do a group buy of plugs for cutting gardens and pollinator plants. Their current method of plant acquisition was random buys from expensive plant nurseries. There's not much room for experimentation with a group of novice growers. Learning from your trials is invaluable, and thank you for taking the time to share this information.


- Lisa

[QUOTE=PureHarvest;704902]Thanks Steve, that is very helpful.
How many dahlia plants do you grow per year?
I really didn’t know about disbudding. All the guides I read never mentioned what you just
shared.
Not sure that I will have a whole lot of time to disbud.
Checked the plants tonight and there seems to be less leafhopper activity than the other day.
In fact, they were harder to find.
Mildew seems, not surprisingly, cultivar specific. Overall for the planting it may be on 10% of the crop, with Yin Yang being the majority of the ones showing symptoms.
So I guess the tunnel is not as a big help as I thought for powdery mildew, as I read it does not need water to spread like other foliar diseases.
Perhaps I should have begun doing weekly Cooper sprays (if that is safe and effective) a couple weeks ago. I have a bag of the really good stuff that is copper soap. It’s reddish if I recall. Can’t remember the brand but I think it’s made in Europe.
Lastly, talked to a florist today with 4 locations that also does a little wholesaling.
Supposed to hear back from her about buying dahlias. She had to dig up some numbers of what she bought and paid last year. She’s been kind to share that with me.[/QUOTE]

I am a small grower (3000 plants) but it is all I can handle by myself. I hire a "disbudder" for 5 hours a week. She can disbud with one hand (and talk on her cell phone with the other hand) much faster than I can disbud with two hands. Maybe try disbudding a few plants yourself this year and, if it seems worthwhile, pay someone to do it next year.

None of the "Karma" growers around here disbud, they sell 5 stems with the bottom 6 inches stripped from each stem, they include the top few laterals with buds in addition to the main flower. They also sleeve the bunches. I assume it must be part of the instructions supplied by Gloeckner or Verwer but I don't know. If you are dealing with one client this year, you can ask what she prefers..

Try to not spray copper on the plants. if you leave a sheen on the foliage it looks weird. you can try just spraying the foliage with clean water to wash off the spores. I had a man just tell me the other day at a market I visited that he sprays only with fish emulsion for everything. but that might make a residual smell... maybe. I have no idea. said he does it for pests and disease. no other sprays.

I am always open to listen to others who are doing, but wonder how good of a control he is getting. Did he say?
I have my 20 gallon compost tea brewer ready to go (soil soup brand). I just need to fill it with water, add the materials and plug the pump in. I could add fish to that and spray it on. Theres not even flower buds yet, so I dont think smell would be a problem unless I spray a week or less before cutting.
Just need to find time to do all this. When it rains it pours. I am uncovering garlic beds after work this week and taking off Friday to begin the harvest. Easliy will consume my weekend. Will be pleasantly surprised if I can get it done by Monday.
2 of my kids have either ball practice or games this week through mid-July. In my high tunnel, tomatoes, onions, strawberries, beans, lettuce and cukes are needing daily attention or harvest right now too. But, I chose it so I do it. I am trying to be mindful of the resources I'm blessed with and to be thankful to be in the spot I'm in because i get to grow so many different things I'm interested in.