She forgot the lemon juice...
When she made her sauce. Quarts and pints and they have been given a long bath already.
She only put onion, garlic, herbs, a little sugar, s&p. What do you think the shelf life will be? Thanks! |
How long did she cook the sauce down? I'd plan on opening them and adding some lemon to each and re process for safety. Lids are not expensive and your health could be.
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I would ask about water bath vs. pressure canning. Which was used? Also, my family practices say not to put ground black pepper in. If you used salt, was it canning/kosher salt and how much?
These questions and your cautious questions are why I only do "juice". It makes the sauces and other things taste so much better to have fresh seasonings and whatever else you're putting in there. If you used a water bath canner, I already agree with Imp. If you used a pressure canner, then my questions might have a different conclusion. |
She cooked it down for 2 1/2 hours. No pressure canner but boiled them for quite a while after.
Kosher salt, moderate amount she says, ground pepper. |
I would strongly suggest that you re-process the tomatoes. I know, I know, it's more work but better to play safe than become very ill. Botulism is sneaky and you cannot see, smell or taste it, but you sure can get sick and yes, even die from it.
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I have to agree with Imp. What you're faced with now is why I chose to do everything in our pressure canner. Water can only reach 212 degrees F in a water bath canner. In a pressure canner, the temp can be safely taken to 253 degrees F which will kill even botulism.
A new 16 quart Presto pressure canner can be had for about 90-100 bucks (less if found on sale). It is SOOOOO worth the piece of mind you gain about what's in the jars. You can even eliminate some of those additives that really distort the taste of things (because you are killing everything in the jar that could hurt you). Look up the temps and pressures medical folks get in an autoclave when sterilizing surgical instruments. It makes a lot of things about canning a lot more clear and logical. |
Thanks guys! The lids are cheap. She's going to do it all again. No big deal to me. Lol
Going to empty jars into pot, boil, wash jars, and can again. You're right. Better safe than sorry! |
I told this story to my DW and she said it might be less additional work to just put the sauce into freezer bags and freeze them this time around. We also called a few of our neighbors who have been canning for decades and the opinions we got ranged from "Definitely Redo" to "What's the problem". I'm like Marsha (Ginger2776) in that I tend to feel safer when I stick with science.
Good luck with that project. Gotta go. The next thunderstorm is coming in. |
If it were me I would use lime juice not lemon.:roll:
Worth |
[QUOTE=Worth1;708998]If it were me I would use lime juice not lemon.:roll:
Worth[/QUOTE] Why would you use lime juice, what is the advantage over lemon? |
[QUOTE=mikemansker;709024]Why would you use lime juice, what is the advantage over lemon?[/QUOTE]
Flavor. Worth |
Bottled lemon juice is a determined minimum acidity, lime is not. It's a safety issue, not a flavor issue. Both the main government pages on canning and the Ball book state this. And not every one likes the flavor of a lime with their tomatoes or other things.
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[QUOTE=gssgarden;708993]Thanks guys! The lids are cheap. She's going to do it all again. No big deal to me. Lol
Going to empty jars into pot, boil, wash jars, and can again. You're right. Better safe than sorry![/QUOTE] Oh, such a drag but you will feel good about eating the redo's. |
[URL]https://www.healthycanning.com/fresh-lime-juice-all-new-ball-book-of-canning/[/URL]
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And not everyone likes the taste of lime in their canned tomatoes. <shrug> I can taste lime even after a period of time and it seems to promote indigestion for me, where with lemon or even orange, my stomach does fine. The only lime I do like is Sonic's cherry limeade.
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I would also think that freezing would be a quicker option. My concern is the higher pH of the onion, garlic and herbs (if fresh). Much better to follow tested recipes/processes, then there is no need to second guess or worry about safety of product.
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If there is space in the freezer, it is a great way to store tomato sauce. We usually keep any leftover tomatoes / sauce that way. (No space in the cold storage room as it is already reserved for fruit / berry preserves...)
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Here are some facts.
Normal thorough cooking (pasteurisation: 70°C 2min or equivalent) will kill [I]Cl.botulinum [/I]bacteria but not its spores. To kill the spores of [I]Cl.botulinum [/I]a sterilisation process equivalent to 121°C for 3 min is required. The botulinum toxin itself is inactivated (denatured) rapidly at temperatures greater than 80°C . 70C = 158F. 121C=249.8.F 80=176F So even if you had toxin on your jar boiling the contents will neutralize the toxin. This is why they say heat canned food. Next. Lime juice and lemon juice can be interchanged to acidify food. (look at link I posted before.) If you dont like either one of those or that nasty vinegar then use citric acid. 1/2 teaspoon per quart. My fermented hot sauce is very safe when it comes to acid. Fermenting puts enough acid in it alone to do the job but yet I add lime juice and citric acid. |
I would also freeze them rather that re-process. I freeze mine in glass jars all of the time and as long as you leave enough head space for expansion, I have never had a jar break.
She has already done quite a lot of cooking on those tomatoes. I feel that less cooking leads to more flavor. |
[QUOTE=brownrexx;709066]I would also freeze them rather that re-process. I freeze mine in glass jars all of the time and as long as you leave enough head space for expansion, I have never had a jar break.
She has already done quite a lot of cooking on those tomatoes. I feel that less cooking leads to more flavor.[/QUOTE] Have you ever froze food in the quart jars with shoulders. They dont recommend it but was just asking. We used the plastic freezer containers they probably still sell if I looked for them. They look like this and we put catfish and water in them to freeze. Also fruit. Worth [IMG]https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/12516495/Arrow-Plastic-00044-3-Pack-1-Qt-Stor-Keeper-Freezer-Storage-Containers-4af75cb5-ecdc-44f4-9615-4b03bbc9747b_600.jpg[/IMG] |
She processed them again. No prob. Poured all into a lot and boiled again. Then into canned for a long bath.
Oh, added lemon juice. Lol She said there was no room in the freezer for them. :/ She, and they will be fine. Lol Thanks guys Greg |
[QUOTE=Worth1;709067]Have you ever froze food in the quart jars with shoulders.
They dont recommend it but was just asking. We used the plastic freezer containers they probably still sell if I looked for them. [/QUOTE] I use the wide mouth jars so they don't really have shoulders. I also have some plastic "jars" that are made by Ball that are BPA free. They make them in pints and quarts. I mostly use the glass jars for my home made spaghetti sauce and plastic for tomatoes and everything else. |
This thread is another example of strength of community and how we members really do care for another. This is the best danged website on the net.
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[QUOTE=gssgarden;709109]She processed them again. No prob. Poured all into a lot and boiled again. Then into canned for a long bath.
Oh, added lemon juice. Lol She said there was no room in the freezer for them. :/ She, and they will be fine. Lol Thanks guys Greg[/QUOTE] Lots of work, but think how lovely they will taste in the winter! |
[QUOTE=ContainerTed;709128]This thread is another example of strength of community and how we members really do care for another. This is the best danged website on the net.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is. |
[QUOTE=ContainerTed;709128]This thread is another example of strength of community and how we members really do care for another. This is the best danged website on the net.[/QUOTE]
I agree very much. |
Any sauce, etc needs to have lemon or lime juice (bottled) added to the recipe for safety if it calls for it. Doesn't matter if it is water bath canned or pressure canned. The approved recipe is developed WITH that acid included and leaving it out changes the recipe. Then, it is no longer the same tested recipe.
There are several variables in canning such as pH, density of ingredients, size of jar (which can affect how the heat transfers in the jar during processing), altitude and more. If you want the guarantee of safety for you and your family, don't divert from the recipe. I would recommend reprocessing with the added lemon juice. It might be okay without if the tomatoes were acid enough, but you really don't know. edited - just saw your post, Greg. :D :D |
<<So even if you had toxin on your jar boiling the contents will neutralize the toxin.>>
True if you don't mind having a contaminated jar and contents in your kitchen. Just one tiny taste is all it takes to get C. bot. Only a tested recipe guarantees that the interior of the jar will reach the required 240 F to kill the spores. |
Bottled lemon and bottled lime juice are interchangeable in canning recipes. Vinegar cannot be used in place of the juices.
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[QUOTE=gssgarden;708959]When she made her sauce. Quarts and pints and they have been given a long bath already.
She only put onion, garlic, herbs, a little sugar, s&p. What do you think the shelf life will be? [/QUOTE] Without the herbs etc, the shelf life is about 2 years for a mixture of tomatoes. With all those in, hard to say, I guess it depends how much it is but it's difficult to predict. |
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