possible hybrid kale/collard growing
 

i have a single plant growing in the garden patch that is different from anything i have planted in the past. the leaf habit is long like a kale leaf would be, but the growth is large round individual globes of green that go up the stem. color is like a collard. i tried a bit of the stem raw, and it has a hot peppery taste. i cut the leaf, and stem up and threw it in with my scrambled eggs. tastes good.
in the past i have had both kale and collards go to seed at the same time, so i suspect this single plant may be a hardy hybrid. i will put a bucket over it this winter for protection, and see if i can get any seeds from the plant next summer.



keith

I have a diverse group of brassicas growing this year which also flowered and set seed with overlap, and made me wonder which ones could cross with each other, it is super confusing. At first I was searching for species names thinking this would be a barrier to crossing but it may not be as good as I thought! See the chart below which showed the rate of successful crosses when different groups were hand pollinated.


Lacinato kale, collards and broccoli are in the same B oleracea which is relatively secure from crossing with the others. But the mustards (B juncea) and oriental cabbage, bok choy types B rapa, and Red Russian Kale B napus . are apparently easier to cross than I thought.:surprised:


I've saved all the seed anyway because all of them make a fine baby greens to cut and come again in the winter. Some of the original seed planted this year was labeled 'random brassicas' and came from my mom's 'everything brassica' patch. There are several types not seen in the original, and they are good eatin. :) I'm planning to start some seed soon, just to see what comes of the different packets...

Wow that is a fascinating graphics, bower. I will need to re-school myself to keep those species Latin names in mind, I always tend to speak about 'those brassicas'! So 'oleracea' won't easily cross with others than 'juncea' (wonder why).. but there already is plenty of variability within the 'oleracea' branch, so there is lots of room for new variants.

Sorry I forgot to cite the source, here 's a link to the pdf. Author AV Stewart.:)
[url]https://www.agronomysociety.org.nz/files/2002_9._Review_-_Brassica_cross-pollination.pdf[/url]

Bower likes brassicas? I'll have to post a list, here, of what I'll be sending to Nicky for the Canadian swap. Hopefully, I'll get to it by next week.

[QUOTE=Tormato;713055]Bower likes brassicas? I'll have to post a list, here, of what I'll be sending to Nicky for the Canadian swap. Hopefully, I'll get to it by next week.[/QUOTE]
Indeed! :D Where would we be without the brassicas... man cannot live by lettuce alone! :twisted:

Here is an interesting article on new brassicas. Although the article was focused on hydroponics it is interesting.

[url]https://view.joomag.com/maximum-yield-usa-september-2018/0735829001534793731?short[/url]

This is "most" of what I have. It's not the time of year for me to go hunting down the lost stashes of seeds.:?:
American Purple Top
Apollo F1
Aspabroc F1
Baby Choi
Beira Tronchuda F1
Bekana

Choho F1
German Bremer Scheerkohl
Giant Red Mustard
Joan
Lascinato
Long Island Improved
Maruba Santoh Round Leaved
Miz America F1
Morris Heading
Oven Roaster
Pechay
Purple Sprouting

Red Russian
Romanesco
Ryokuho F1
San Fan F1
Senposai F1
Seven Top Greens
Shuka F1
Spigariello Liscia
Tendergreen
Tronchuda
Tyfon Holland Greens
Veronica F1
Violetto Italia
Wild Gardens Mild Mustards (a genetic mix)
Yukina Savoy


On a side note..."Romanesco" is my favorite type of brassica. However, I've never had success with it in the garden. And, I haven't seen it anywhere in about a decade.:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Romanesco is truly a beautiful thing to behold. I had a few seed once but none germinated. I admit I am not famous for culturing large magnificent heads in the B oleracea gang. It is by no means beneath me to let rambunctious kales overwinter and serve up their flower bud shoots as "mockoli".:roll: Also having some success with the Asian greens, including Yu choy sum, bok choy, and napa cabbage/michihili (okay it bolted but it was darn sweet). Yu choy is sweet and very nice, but Gailan (I have bought a few times) is even nicer in its own way and I'm hankering to grow it too. The 3 mentioned are all Brassica rapa, Gailan is B oleracea though so explains the great flavor and sturdiness of its stems. :yes:
That's quite a list you have there!! :?::D Could be a pleasant evening on google, for me. Seven what? :love:

I have succesfully grown only kohlrabi and Red Russian/White Russian to their full size, turnips are way too tricky. Those 'little friends' love to munch everything away :lol: Protective cover doesn't deter them.

This year I have tried bok choy in a container and I got a nice result... meaning, a few leaves I was able to cook.
Kailan looks like something that would be nice to try, as well as Raabini (the Italian one..) I have seeds but haven't grown them yet.
At least they all grow succesfully as microgreens, and bugs don't have a chance.:yes:

I love those Japanese greens (if that's what they are called) - Bok Choy, Mitsu, but so do the flea beetles which totally devastated them this year so it was a dead loss.

I grew a few varieties of kale, and a sprouting broccoli (Calibresse), but the ones that turned out best (with the least amount of Cabbage White caterpillars) were the curly kale. Hubby even liked the young leaves in a salad! The chickens love the leaves and the dogs go nuts for the stalks. I'll be growing lots of that next year.

Linda

[QUOTE=bower;713200]Romanesco is truly a beautiful thing to behold. I had a few seed once but none germinated. I admit I am not famous for culturing large magnificent heads in the B oleracea gang. It is by no means beneath me to let rambunctious kales overwinter and serve up their flower bud shoots as "mockoli".:roll: Also having some success with the Asian greens, including Yu choy sum, bok choy, and napa cabbage/michihili (okay it bolted but it was darn sweet). Yu choy is sweet and very nice, but Gailan (I have bought a few times) is even nicer in its own way and I'm hankering to grow it too. The 3 mentioned are all Brassica rapa, Gailan is B oleracea though so explains the great flavor and sturdiness of its stems. :yes:
That's quite a list you have there!! :?::D Could be a pleasant evening on google, for me. Seven what? :love:[/QUOTE]



Just don't get yourself lost in the Fibonacci sequence.;)

Well I have to show off my new brassica seed saving thing!!!! Paid $4 for it on a Dollar Store spree... My rationale was to blanch some of my shelly peas to freeze, but once I got it home, it's true life purpose dawned on me! :yes: As my friend said when I showed her, in amaze "the holes.... the holes are ROUND..." Yep, another brassica seed saver. :lol:
So all I have to do is shatter/strip off the pods into a big bowl, pods and all. Then I pour them into the round holed thingy, shake gently and... voila!! :D This is way easier than whatever I did last time there were many brassicas. :roll:

bower,

thats the same technique i used with the giant colander my wife picked up.
i cut the stalks with the seed pods, jam them into an empty chicken feed bag, step on the bag, and rough it up a bit to separate the seeds, place something under the colander to catch the seeds when i pour the contents out of the bag. nice and clean.



keith

:D:D:D GIANT colander.... LIKE!!!!

Super idea! In fact, I already have a colander that will do the trick. :yes:

This thread is making me crave kale chips!

With everything bolted or torn up by now, I am craving some fresh greens! (Should've made chips while the going was good :yes:)
So a couple of days ago I started my brassica seed test, and here they are up. Not sure how long until the true leaves will be out, to see just how mixed up they are. I kept seed lots separate on the chance that some would have a better chance of being true to type instead of crossed. Not much chance with the purple stemmed types, since they had lost their identifying leaves before I remembered to do the seed roundup... I tried to classify them by the amount of purple (some were just purple tinged, others fully purple stems and purple pods). Still I ended up with six purple seed lots, two white stemmed mustard, 3 michihili and 3 "choy" - pretty sure these were just the "baby bok choy" that came from the greenhouse but not 100% certain if I did toss all the bolted yu choy so we shall see...


One interesting thing I noticed already: The third lot of Michihili seed is showing some purple tinges on a couple of seedlings, so likely crossed with one of the purple things (Red Russian Kale, RRK crosses with different leaf shape, or purple tinged mustard green). Anything cool looking will get personal space, of course. :D We actually did okay with Michihili under lights last winter (larger pot) although I wish it grew faster.

Seeing I have been without greens for awhile now, the taste testing day is bound to be my favorite part of this experiment. :yes::wait:

Sorry for less than great pics, everything looks a little blurry to me today.

So, Bower, have you decided on what brassicas from the list (at post#8) you'd like me to send into Nicky's swap?

Mmmmm :love: I did indeed spend an evening frolicking with brassica dreams on google..:)
My notes say Ryokuho F1 is a Gailan. 40 days, yummy thick stems, same family as broccoli.
Choho, Bekana and Senposai are sweet, early, chinese-cabbagey things any and all of which I do love. Those were the coolest ones I double starred as the ones most likely to grow, even in winter.


Such beauties as Violetta and Veronica romensco are for me to admire from afar.. in pictures of someone else's triumph. :|:cute:



It might also interest you to know that San Fan F1 is a racecar. 8-) Apollo F1 is a rocket engine.:shock: Google cannot lie. :surprised:;)

So here is the brassica seed test at 7 days. I'm really not seeing any purple on any of the seedlings at this stage - first true leaf just emerging. Some of the seedlots (mostly the P series) have a few tiny seedlings emerging later in the row with purple cotyledons.
All the seedlings under the LED are starting true leaf now, while our salad mix in the greenhouse planted the same day is a little bit slower. Michihili is ahead by a notch with true leaf a little longer. This is nice to see because the seed they came from (commercial source) was extremely slow! Fresh seed seems to be the answer to that.
After the pics I topped up these containers with some compost and watered.
I am hoping to see those little true leaves in another week. :wait:

[QUOTE=Labradors2;713288]I love those Japanese greens (if that's what they are called) - Bok Choy, Mitsu, but so do the flea beetles which totally devastated them this year so it was a dead loss. Linda[/QUOTE]

I hear ya on the flea beetles! Bok choy, Napa cabbage etc are all FB magnets in the garden. So this past spring I planted some in pots next to the tomatoes up next to the house and away from the garden. Gah! They got infested with them there too! That's it. No more. Crossing these off the grow list. Besides, there's enough kale and collards growing to make more than enough greens. One CAN have too many greens. :lol:

[QUOTE=bower;716521]So here is the brassica seed test at 7 days. I'm really not seeing any purple on any of the seedlings at this stage - first true leaf just emerging. Some of the seedlots (mostly the P series) have a few tiny seedlings emerging later in the row with purple cotyledons.
[/QUOTE]

How are they coming along? Or have you just harvested for micro greens?

GoDawgs I totally missed your post until today! I'm afraid that hunger got the best of the seedling test... Most of them went to my Mom as micro/baby greens. I was fairly satisfied that they looked to be true to type with some minimal crossing. Some of the seed lots turned out to be really crossed though, when I grew them later - mixed up kales. The LED lights seemed to do wierd things to the anthocyanin - red turns up where it isn't or doesn't show up where it is, and you only find out what's really going on when they get out into the daylight.



I just recently started michihili seed again - this time from the one I thought had the best chance to be crossed. I started extras just to see what I could find. Most are true to type Michihili, but the crossed ones all apparently from different parents. Easy to tell the red russian kale cross! And that one tasted the best in my nibbler taste test this morning. :)

The true type Michihili is on the far left. The crosses are faster growing, as you would expect from their other parents! One thing noted - hairly/prickly leaf must be dominant, as it shows up in all of the offspring.