Seeds that take forever?
 

Add your input about seeds that take forever to germinate (over 14 days)
Is it just the oddball varieties?
For me Indigo blue beauty and garden peach took forever.
And that was using a warming mat.

Garnet took a month! (My own seeds saved in 2017). I do not use a heat mat. I almost gave up on them until Marsha told me that they tend to take longer to germinate than other varieties...….

Linda

Ildi always takes a long time for me compared to other varieties, and the seedlings are usually weaker.
Might just be my seeds, which are quite old now, but I remember the same being true when they were fresh.

Heatmaster took 2 weeks also

For me, the older the seed the longer the germination time. Once had a twenty year old that took a month before one seed out of 15 finally popped up.

Mention should be made if you use a warming mat and the wattage or not.
I use one that is 17 watts.

The seeds I mentioned were all saved seeds from last year.

[QUOTE=slugworth;756606]Mention should be made if you use a warming mat and the wattage or not.
I use one that is 17 watts.[/QUOTE]
Wattage is secondary as long as you use a thermostat to regulate the temperature you have chosen. Personnally I only keep tomatoes that can germinate in 3 - 5 days at a temperature of 28C / 82F

plug n pray
no thermostat

Using a heat mat (no thermostat), the following took more than 14 days:
KARMA Miracle, fresh seed (in the garden, now one of my most vigorous plants!)
KARMA Apricot, ditto
Khurma, seed from 2011
Brandywine Sudduth, from 2012
Eva Purple Ball, from 2012
Green Tiger, from 2014

(and then I had 3-4 varieties from 2017-2020 seed that didn't germinate at all!)

for eggplants, several took longer than 14 days, all fresh seed
Mitoyo
Green Dragon
Xi'an Green
Chornyy Krasen

I have a small 20-watt heat mat and a larger mat, wattage unknown.

I have one of those kill a watt meters,you plug a device in and it tells you how many watts.
It's good to know TTG (time to germinate) so I can plan next year when to start seeds.

The cure for seeds that aren't germinating is to sow more... I had older Heidi seeds and started just two in an egg carton with a bunch of other seeds. All the rest popped by the end of the first week. After the end of the second week I gave up on the two Heidis and started four more seeds in another egg carton. Within a day the original two seeds sprouted... The other four all also eventually sprouted.

Slugworth, what is your seed saving method?

Paper plate method.
Sow more seeds is not an option.
I only have x amount of seeds to play with every year.

Did you ferment them before drying them on a plate?

never fermented a seed in my life
There is a youtube video on all 3 methods of seed saving and there was no difference
between the 3 types.
My mother gardened for over 85 years and she never fermented seeds.
I even saved them on glass panes one year and just stacked the glass against a wall.
The problem is,the warming mats are geared towards trays of containers with dirt.
For the paper plate method they are actually too hot and the seeds cook.
I had to stack the plates in ziploc bags with air like a pillow to get the proper temps.
Once the seeds pop,survival of the fittest.I add dirt and the biggest plants get rewarded with living.

They say fermentation removes the gel sac that contains germination inhibitors. That may be part of why your seeds are taking longer than normal to germinate. Fresh seeds will usually pop within a week when fermented.

More than 14 days for tomatoes is rough, especially with a mat. Should take about 3-4 days for fresh seed. For eggplant, something like 7-12 is normal, for peppers varies a lot, rocotos took more than 3 weeks (and with very poor percentage), but a jalapeno is under a week.
I find alternating the heat with turning it off seems to help, but I didn't do a controlled experiment.

[QUOTE=zipcode;756709]
I find alternating the heat with turning it off seems to help, but I didn't do a controlled experiment.[/QUOTE]


No controlled experiment here either, but I've been doing that for a few years now. My heat mat runs too hot, and though I can use blocks of wood to raise up the trays higher, I found that I have better germination when I turn off the heater at night. That seems to mimic the day/night heating cycle in nature. And I have fewer of those overly long thin sprouts that hatch and grow fast in the dark looking for light.

Now that they had more time,I have a S-load of the heatmaster seedlings.

[QUOTE=Father'sDaughter;756702]They say fermentation removes the gel sac that contains germination inhibitors. That may be part of why your seeds are taking longer than normal to germinate. Fresh seeds will usually pop within a week when fermented.[/QUOTE]
my non fermented paper plate seeds popped in 4-5 days
A sliced heirloom tomato put right into the ground as slices took 1 week.
But that was at outdoor temps day and night.

The other side of the coin;I had gladiator seeds store bought I put in the ground may 1st
They are big enough to plant.
The same with the phoenix from saved seeds.
It's all in the genes.

A lot depends on how you start the seeds.
In potting soil,no need to ferment.
The paper towel method needs fermenting or rubbing the gel off.
Paper plate no soil non fermented the gel was still on after 2 weeks.
One seed did pop and I let the rest dry.I have plenty of that variety.

Like slugworth, my Heatmaster tomatoes were slower to germinate than other varieties, but I usually get 100% germination with Heatmaster and they quickly catch up in growth. I only use my heat mats on pepper seed. I germinate in single seed cells and typically don't up pot. My seeding is usually accomplished in one day. From planting, I normally only need to keep them watered and occasionally lower my growing deck below the lights as the plants grow. I start hardening them outside a couple of weeks before plant out. My philosophy for myself has always been "keep it simple, stupid".

Looking back at the various seed packets,they cover their hiney by saying germinates in 7-21 days.Like a generic answer.
Starting seeds later I was able to take advantage of sunlight and grow lights.
Sunlight during normal hours then grow lights for overtime and on cloudy days.

Kumato saved seeds took forever also when I made the attempt years ago.
On a side note,I wonder how many people have run into sterile saved seeds
that I see warnings about on various sites, and are actually true.
4th of july hybrid was supposed to be a sterile when saved seed,but they lied.

[QUOTE=slugworth;757092]Kumato saved seeds took forever also when I made the attempt years ago.
On a side note,I wonder how many people have run into sterile saved seeds
that I see warnings about on various sites, and are actually true.
4th of july hybrid was supposed to be a sterile when saved seed,but they lied.[/QUOTE]


I don't remember anyone saying saved hybrid seeds are sterile. What I do remember people saying is saved hybrid seeds will probably not grow true to the plant or fruit it was saved from. A hybrid plant may produce a great tasting tomato, but it's offspring may taste like card board.


I've also been told that many old hybrid varieties are in fact no longer hybrid. The companies who sell them grew the variety through it's f7 phase, but want the customers to continue believing they are hybrid and will not save seed from them. For the seed producers, it is much less expensive to produce genetically stable seed than constantly producing hybrid seed. I have no idea how true that is.

There have been reports of people saving seeds from older varieties of hybrids that have grown true in subsequent years, but I think you're right that not too many people will try. These would be stabilized hybrids (and now open pollinated), but the seed companies certainly aren't going to change their labeling...

Then there are hybrids many people have tried to de-hybridize over several years with no luck in getting anything that resembles the original enough. Sungold seems to be the one with the most attempts among T'ville members.

Where seldom is heard a discouraging word.
The 4th of july hybrids took about 5 or 6 generations to revert back to the origins.

I grew 4th of July for many years because it is an early producer. I stopped growing them when I realized decent tasting tomatoes could be grown in the same places as the early tomatoes. It didn't harm me to wait a week or two for the good tasting tomatoes. 4th of July always seemed to me to be tasteless, but could be cooked down to a decent tomato sauce and they could be frozen to add to various recipes.



Many people tried to dehybridize Better Boy over the years without success. Carolyn often advised them they were wasting their time because one of the genetic contributors was a variety named Teddy or Teddy Boy. The producer of the Better Boy hybrid had somehow acquired all seed and patents of Teddy and would not name the other contributors. Without knowledge of what you were attempting to standardize to, it would seem to be a waste of time.

The 4th of july origin was a PL determinate type and some cherry RL indeterminate.
I grew what I call july 5th this year,the determinate PL plants.
They have blossoms and will produce in july.
When I donated to the soup kitchen garden last year I purposely donated tomatoes
that get ripe in july here,so they would have a fast supply for the kitchens.
4th of july hybrid and bloody butcher, 2 types you can't buy locally here.
I had my 1st 4th of july hybrid june 17th and it was delicious.A bought plant that already
had a green tomato.