Burpee....suspicious on some of their tomato names...
 

Of course, only Burpee knows for sure -

but doesn't tomato Italian Ice sound suspiciously like Dr. Carolyn....or, perhaps, Snow White Cherry? And how creative - chill a bowlful for a satisfying cool snack (hence the link with "Ice")...clever marketing, no doubt...and that price! 4.65 for 30 seeds.

Anyone ever saved and regrown seed from Black Pearl to see if it is indeed a hybrid, or just a renaming of Black Cherry (an OP, of course)?

And we have Yellow Magic....looks pretty much like Yellow Stuffer, a pretty common OP....again, 4.95 for 30 seeds?

What's the term - caveat emptor???

Craig,

Good point! The DNA typing system may work!

Kent & Kathy

I agree Craig, I thought the [B]VERY[/B] same thing. Snow White was my guess.:evil:

I was saying to myself last night reading seed cats that I wished they would all use the same name for the variety. I grow a white cherry and get two kinds of cherries , white and a larger pale yellow one. Nice one. I read some where white cherry is not stable. ?? I can call the yellow one anything I want, right?. Can't buy seed for it, so I save. I am wondering on some if Hybrid is not just part of the name. Like lemon Boy Hybrid. I am wondering if they have not bred out some of the hybrids.

I refuse to buy anything from Burpee...their prices are ridiculous and their marketing of tomatoes should be criminal.

There are just too many good seed companies out there to give this place any business.

I thought the same thing when I looked at it last night! I was also amused by the Red Lightning blurb. "A vast improvement on Red Zebra, an heirloom from which it was derived." I remember reading the complaints on GW about it when Burpee first offered it 2 years ago, and I don't think I've read a good review yet.
Remy

I hate to buy the new Super tomatoes from Burpee and then find that I can get some of them for a $1.59 or so at Wallymart. I want to grow that Italian Ice to compare with Super Snow White. Has anyone seen the seed display at WallyMart yet? I checked a couple around West Houston and the displays were still cartoned up in the plant area?


MikeInCypress:surprised:

[quote=remy;83202]I thought the same thing when I looked at it last night! I was also amused by the Red Lightning blurb. "A vast improvement on Red Zebra, an heirloom from which it was derived." I remember reading the complaints on GW about it when Burpee first offered it 2 years ago, and I don't think I've read a good review yet.
Remy[/quote]

I got suckered into Burpee's Marketing and purchased Red Lightning last spring. It was /puke.

Nancy

i used to like burpee. they might have been the very first gardening catalog i ever received. things sure have changed. their prices are excessive. their plant descriptions seem to be over the top. if something is good, it shouldn't be that hard to sell. on the plus side, they have a nice looking catalog. thats about all i'll be doing with it this year, just looking.


keith in calumet

Burpee is rapidly spending down the good will they built up in years gone by as the country's premier home gardening catalog. I've heard a number of people comment, "Oh, Burpee. My folks always ordered from them when I was a kid" and the warm-and-fuzzies would be flying all over the place. Now, the name is the same but otherwise,:no::no::no:.

I always grow Brandyboy and last year grew Porterhouse which was one of my better hybrids. I buy at Wal Mart if they seeds are there and if not order. I've had great luck with their seeds. I have heard they rename and that might be the case. But still better than Field's , Gurney's and some other catalog vendors in my opinion.

Went by one of the local Wallyworlds today and the Burpee Seeds were out. Not much in the way of Tomatoes, They did have Little Brandywine and a Heirloom Mixture. They also had a mixture of their new hot varieties, Italian Ice, Tangerine Mama, Golden Mama, Razzle Dazzle, and Honey Bunch Currant. All for $1.50. Seeds are not marked.

Now I don't know how to ID seeds from size so to get the Italian Ice you have to grow all eighteen, I would assume The Mamas are determinate and the Currants will have small fine leaves. Does any one know if Razzle Dazzle is potato leafed?
:roll:

MikeInCypress

oh dear, total tomato newbie that I am I bought the italian ice from burpee...its growing like a monster and is setting blooms as we speak. I grew from seed, started them the same time I started my rutgers and the italian ice is at least a foot taller and has two sets of blooms already. Since I'm in Alaska I grow indoors, we'll see how this one does.
Also since I'm in Alaska, burpee is one of very few seed sellers that will actually ship to me without charging me a surcharge...it doesn't actually cost any extra to ship here USPS, so I boycott anybody who even suggests it.
The IIC is the only hybrid I ordered from burpee. I tried to stay away from them but the description and pics were just too enticing.

Welcome, alaska! I actually find very few seed companies that do add a surcharge for shipping seeds (only) to Alaska. You might look at Tomato Growers Supply.

[COLOR=#008000][URL="http://www.tomatogrowers.com"]www.[B]tomato[/B][B]growers[/B].com[/URL][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#008000][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#008000]Sherry[/COLOR]

I guess Burpee is the only company that I refuse to business with in the future. About 9-10 years ago when I first started growing heirloom varieties almost exclusively, I ordered some Cherokee Purple plants from Burpee. My friend Reverend Dr. Preacher Fred and I were going to split the order. When my plants arrived, they were a week late and completely DOA. Even if they weren't, they would have been unusable. The plants were 6-7 inches tall (when they were alive, of course) and were growing in tiny cells. The kicker was that they were growing three or four plants to a cell and were completely rootbound. It would not have been possible to separate them and have undamaged plants. To their credit, they didn't hassle me about a refund and my money was refunded the same day. I have grown Burpee's Tabletalk from a seed trade since then and was pleased with it. I won't, however, be giving them my hardearned dollars anymore.

I have had good experiences with many seed companies, despite inconsistency in naming and some tomato illiteracy on their part; such as claiming that a tomato is low-acid or is a hybrid heirloom.

Here are the companies that I have had a positive experience with:

Tomato Growers' Supply
Marianna's Heirloom Seeds
Weeks' Seeds
Botanical Interests
Victory Seeds
Johnny's Select Seeds
heirloomtomatoes.com aka The Tomato Patch
Southern Exposure Seed Exchange

mater

I don't know how I missed this thread the first time around. Anyway, I've wondered about a few of their "exclusive" varieties too. The one that comes to mind is their "Blue Marble" eggplant. Looks just like Prosperosa to me. And they say it's a variety from Tuscany, just like Prosperosa. Gotta wonder. :?!?:

I've always had good results with seeds from Burpee. I did order plants one time and it was very hot when they shipped and I lost one. They refunded for it and another one and the others did well. I've bought hybrid and op seeds from them. Excellent germination. The Porterhouse and Brandyboy are two of my favorite hybrids along with Goliath from Totally Tomatoes who I've had good results with also.
There is only two I won't order from. Seeds of Change and Johnny's because of their credit card fiasco. When your credit card numbers have been used before you are notified I feel that it is poor customer service. There is too many good companies to put up with that in my opinion.
Tomato Growers Supply
Victory Seeds
Amishland
Tomato Fest
are some I use about every year. JD

I have many suspicions that Burpee's is claiming hybrids on many heirlooms, and calling them their own.

My first suspicion was "Big Mama'.
At first I thought it might be Rio Grande, but after 3 years of side-by-side growing, I realized this was Amish Paste.

Same thing with Delicious and another that I forget the name.
Now Burpees is calling it Delicious.

There are many more. Black Cherry, Snow White, Pineapple, and more.

1 years replant will prove it's not a hybrid.
This just ticks me off a little bit.

Valerie

Off subject a bit but relevant I think.

I have to add, that I have exactly the same feelings about Thompson and Morgan who are very big in the UK but do have a US and Caanadian catalogue too. I swear they change the names of things to give themselves phony exclusives.. I refuse to buy anything from them if described this way..simply untrustworthy, and I do think they say hybrid to some things that are not.

XX Jeannine

[QUOTE=timeless;227065]I have many suspicions that Burpee's is claiming hybrids on many heirlooms, and calling them their own.

My first suspicion was "Big Mama'.
At first I thought it might be Rio Grande, but after 3 years of side-by-side growing, I realized this was Amish Paste.

Same thing with Delicious and another that I forget the name.
Now Burpees is calling it Delicious.

There are many more. Black Cherry, Snow White, Pineapple, and more.

1 years replant will prove it's not a hybrid.
This just ticks me off a little bit.

Valerie[/QUOTE]

Valerie, if you do some searching here at Tville for Black Pearl and somthing called ty die something and Bloody Buthcher andadd the word bBurpee to the individual searchs, I know you'll find some interesting threads from many others who have no use for Burpee at all.

The issue isn't just misrepresenting OP's as hybrids, but offering wrong seeds for a stated variety wjether it be an OP or an F1.

Given all the wonderful seed sites available, some better than others, for OP non-heirlooms, OP heirlooms and F1 hybrids I don't understand why so many still buy tomato seeds from George Ball, aka Burpee.

What they do, as some others do, is to have a place custom develop something, unnamed, and then they name it. I'm pretty sure that the connection between Burpee and Petoseed is still strong starting years ago when Dr. Schifriss bred Big Boy F1 when at Burpee and one parent is the heirloom Teddy Jones, and then John Peto left Burpee, went to CA and startred petoseed and Better Boy F1 was bred there using the same Teddy Jones as one parent, which John Peto took with him when he left Burpee.

One more weird thing regarding 'Delicious'
 

[QUOTE=Jeannine Anne;227102]Off subject a bit but relevant I think.

I have to add, that I have exactly the same feelings about Thompson and Morgan who are very big in the UK but do have a US and Caanadian catalogue too. I swear they change the names of things to give themselves phony exclusives.. I refuse to buy anything from them if described this way..simply untrustworthy, and I do think they say hybrid to some things that are not.

XX Jeannine[/QUOTE]

Just for 'fun' I bought Burpee seeds labled 'Delicious', from several local retailers.
Walmart, Menards and Ebay's local vendor.
I know what 'Delicious' is supposed to be, so I could compare plantings.
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
One came out a gnarly mess, like an overgrown beefsteak on steroids, one was a cherry and the other was close, but way too small.
The one off Ebay was the closest to the real deal.

So, Burpee doesn't package the same seed for everyone.
Funny, I think.

Val

Hi I'm new to site but looks , I'm very sceptical with burpee seeds sold at the Home depot seems I've gotten something other that what I payed for I do believe they have gone the way of BIG CORP greed. and I wonder what they do with all those seeds the pick up at the end of summer? Humm just a thought

[QUOTE=sailspin;244211]Hi I'm new to site but looks , I'm very sceptical with burpee seeds sold at the Home depot seems I've gotten something other that what I payed for I do believe they have gone the way of BIG CORP greed. and I wonder what they do with all those seeds the pick up at the end of summer? Humm just a thought[/QUOTE]

Could you share with us which Burpee tomato seeds you bought and thought you had as opposed to what you actually got?

I see you're new here, so welcome.

[QUOTE=sailspin;244211]I wonder what they do with all those seeds the pick up at the end of summer? Humm just a thought[/QUOTE]

Burpee instructs their retailers to destroy seeds that haven't sold at the end of the season. They actually specify that the packets be exposed to water to do this.

Burpee also prohibits discounting below their pre-printed packet price, although this rule is often broken.

[QUOTE=elkwc36;106752]I've always had good results with seeds from Burpee. I did order plants one time and it was very hot when they shipped and I lost one. They refunded for it and another one and the others did well. I've bought hybrid and op seeds from them. Excellent germination. The Porterhouse and Brandyboy are two of my favorite hybrids along with Goliath from Totally Tomatoes who I've had good results with also.
There is only two I won't order from. Seeds of Change and Johnny's because of their credit card fiasco. When your credit card numbers have been used before you are notified I feel that it is poor customer service. There is too many good companies to put up with that in my opinion.
Tomato Growers Supply
Victory Seeds
Amishland
Tomato Fest
are some I use about every year. JD[/QUOTE]

The credit card thing was taken care of some time ago. I have ordered from them a couple times since with no prob.

Kevin

[QUOTE=Ruth_10;83252]Burpee is rapidly spending down the good will they built up in years gone by as the country's premier home gardening catalog. I've heard a number of people comment, "Oh, Burpee. My folks always ordered from them when I was a kid" and the warm-and-fuzzies would be flying all over the place. Now, the name is the same but otherwise,:no::no::no:.[/QUOTE]


It has not been the same since the Burpee family left and went through several owners and to it's current owner George Ball. I miss the days when a smiling David Burpee would be on the inside cover of the catalog talking about the upcoming season and the new seed offerings. I really do miss that but at least we have not only good folks here to ask for seeds from there are still some great companies to buy from.


Kevin

I miss the old Burpee's as well. However, you have to admit Burpee is now on the cutting edge. This year they are offering 'hybrid heirlooms'. A new cherry tomato plant is 9" high and 44" wide! Last year their 'seedless tomato' was apparently a huge hit. They also offer 'expert advice'. Can't wait to see what Mr. Ball comes up with next!

Many gardeners don't understand the meaning of hybrid or heirloom.

First: All tomatoes are hybrids. This was true when the Spanish and Dutch first brought them out of the Western Hemisphere in the 1520's.

Second: Heirloom plant (by case law) means "reproduces true from seed" and "off patent". Now I know many people that think there are more requirements as well, but sellers in the U.S. are only bound by the "reproduction" and "off patent" clauses.

For example, Burpee's "Better Boy" is both a hybrid and an heirloom.

Just a clarification...
Hybrid seeds or plants that you buy, such as Better Boy, are (almost always) F1s, or the first generation cross. Seeds saved from the F1 generation produce plants where the genes have segregated. That is, they are not genetically the same as the parent, and are often quite different.
Heirloom varieties are genetically stable and because the flowers are self-pollinated, the seed, in this case, reproduces true to type.
Happy New Year everyone! Best of luck in the garden this season.

Above two posts, [SIZE=4][COLOR=Red]S[/COLOR][COLOR=SeaGreen]A[/COLOR][COLOR=DarkOrchid]Y[/COLOR] [COLOR=Green]W[/COLOR][COLOR=Magenta]H[/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]A[/COLOR][COLOR=Red]T!!!!!!![/COLOR][/SIZE]:shock::?:

Worth