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-   -   it's a tad rocky here... (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=47791)

bower June 28, 2018 06:31 PM

it's a tad rocky here...
 
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This is a multi year project I've been working on. The terrace I started in 2015. The area is southeast corner of my house near the greenhouse, which is where the natural topsoil from the building site was piled before construction in '91, next to a small natural valley or drainage/catchment area, which does have standing water in extreme rain events.
The excess topsoil - which is a red clay pH 4, was moved over several years in the 90's as a foundation for my raised beds in the main west garden. This soil on its own is like poison to vegetables or any of the many things gardeners normally grow, but it is all we have here above the rock, and farmers considered it a better start than nothing, back in the day. There are many places where there is not even any clay, so... farmers started in the best spots, ridges where there is clay...
The terrace area garden has been neglected after redistributing some of the clay, and never "finished" as a garden although some compost was made there and some things grown on the top. I started working on this area in 2015 mostly because weeds that host mildew - forget-me-nots and red clover are sadly the worst - were providing spores to blow into the greenhouse and messing with the tomatoes.
This pic is from 2015, when I started work on the terrace. The stone steps in the foreground were built many years earlier with the help of a very strong friend. Big rocks!!

Worth1 June 28, 2018 06:40 PM

Looks like the Ozark poor farms.
Not to be insulting by any way.:)
The rich folks got all the bottom land.
You should have seen the pile of rocks around our family garden.
If I hauled and raked rocks in the morning I got to take the truck swimming and fishing in the after noon.


Worth

bower June 28, 2018 06:43 PM

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Since the soil is so rocky here, naturally rock is the material for shaping out beds, terraces etc. It's handy. Rock has benefits as the enclosure of beds, being a solar collector for warmth which is a big plus here. Rock is handy to make paths that you can walk on without a lot of mowing..
Bags of leaves and horse manure topped the first terrace in 2015, and I had multiplier onions and peppers planted here in 2016. Shade is an issue, I am still working on because this south facing sheltered area should be a really good place if not for the shaders...
Spring of 2016 reshaping beds on the top and a pathway to walk on...

Worth1 June 28, 2018 06:47 PM

Sta5rting to look like Easter Island.

Worth

bower June 28, 2018 06:48 PM

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In 2017 I firmed up the beds on top and planted my 2yr old garlic there in the fall.
Here is how it looks this spring from the other bank.

bower June 28, 2018 06:56 PM

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So this spring I am working on the west corner by the steps. I want to level up the top and make another bed on the shoulder as well as the lower end south. I want a sheltered bed on the side of the steps as you go down too. In the long term I would like for this and the other lower terrace to be rich enough and sunny enough to make asparagus beds, but that's a way off. They could also be good places for peppers, sheltered entirely from the winds. Peppers have done great on the top in a good sunny year, so it's not a bad bet.:)
Seemed like a peachy plan, but one of the rocks in my new bed is a tad bigger than I expected...:?!?:

bower June 28, 2018 06:58 PM

@Worth, no shame in the poverty of it, it is what it is! I could hardly pretend it is royal soil. :twisted:

bower June 28, 2018 07:04 PM

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It took a couple of days to move this sucker, a bit at a time.
I couldn't lift it, but I managed to pry it up with pick and shovel and get it as close as possible to the plywood retaining wall. So when that aged piece of woodstuff deteriorates and is gone, the big rock will be there to start the' permanent' retaining wall, that is rocks. I regret it was too big to move because I'm losing some bed space as a result, but so it goes...

bower June 28, 2018 07:11 PM

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So now the job is to build up some material that is fit for plants to grow in.
I had the sods and weeds from the top, which I laid to one side. Then I dug three drills for the fish that I found in my freezer when I defrosted it a couple weeks ago. :oops: Yes I already trenched my tomato plants in containers in the greenhouse with three bags of caplin I thought was the last of the hoard... apparently not. And you can see where the urge to build new beds comes from, when you find old fish in the freezer.... :shock::D
No pics of the fish natch, it's a dirty business done very early in the day before the flies are out and you don't want any of that fish juice lurking on a camera button or the like. :no:
So then the sods/weeds went back around it, and evened it out with a bit of peat, then a big bag of maple leaves, some kelp I removed from around the garlic, and a sprinkle of peat to keep the leaves from blowing away before I add more layers...
It got hot, work was over for the day. :yes:

bower June 28, 2018 07:24 PM

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Incidentally the wood framing on the beds is mainly for the benefit of animals. The silly rails or sticks pointing up are my "moose rails" just trying to make my vegetable beds visible to moose. And it's a warning to them because in fall there's likely to be wire or other obstructions in the bed I don't want them to step into.
Hares also, will never think twice about hopping up on a rock-bounded bed, but they are not so confident about raised wooden beds, might be a trap. Indeed.
All the wood in my garden is presently scrap - stuff that was lying around from past repairs etc. I am determined to use up whatever is available.

Salsacharley June 28, 2018 07:34 PM

You've been doing pioneer work. Best wishes to finish your goals in the time you want.

bower June 28, 2018 07:51 PM

Tx for your good wishes Salsacharley. :) It is an ongoing challenge for sure, I'm just happy to be well enough to continue with little projects year by year.
Back in the day I was proud to work with a wheelbarrow and no machine on the land. Ha ha. Nowadays I dream of having a little money to rent a mini-backhoe!!! Heck that would be a lot of fun. :D
I think there's something in the soil that makes gardeners optimists. :roll:
I could really see me having a day with that mini-backhoe, somehow. :lol:

mikemansker June 28, 2018 07:55 PM

[QUOTE=Worth1;706362]Looks like the Ozark poor farms.
Not to be insulting by any way.:)
The rich folks got all the bottom land.
You should have seen the pile of rocks around our family garden.
If I hauled and raked rocks in the morning I got to take the truck swimming and fishing in the after noon.


Worth[/QUOTE]
Where did you live in the Ozarks?


I grew up on various farms in southwest/central Missouri. We weren't poor, we were subsistence. If we had more money, we would have been poor.

GrowingCoastal June 28, 2018 09:18 PM

Lots of work visible there! And also see a laughing face in the rock border in the third picture. Any hope of finding some labradorite when you unearth those rocks?

PhilaGardener June 28, 2018 09:24 PM

[QUOTE=bower;706375]Ha ha. Nowadays I dream of having a little money to rent a mini-backhoe!!! Heck that would be a lot of fun. :D[/QUOTE]


Ah, for power tools! :yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

bower June 28, 2018 09:34 PM

[QUOTE=GrowingCoastal;706383]Lots of work visible there! And also see a laughing face in the rock border in the third picture. Any hope of finding some labradorite when you unearth those rocks?[/QUOTE]

Alas there's slim chance of any labradorite here. We do have a lot of jasper, agates and such. Some of the jaspers/carnelians are incredibly beautiful. I've spent a lot of time on our local beach, seeking peace time, and there with the water on them you see the carnelians, agates, jaspers even cherts in their true beauty. There is some feldspar around but not of the radiant kind. Fellow rockhound. ;)
There's a lot of manganese in the rocks here, you often get split faces that have a lovely purple sheen. I'm not sure why we have so many rocks that split very flat, but that is a useful feature in the garden. :yes:
I think all gardeners or farmers in this place must have a positive appreciation of rocks!! :lol:

bower June 28, 2018 09:42 PM

[QUOTE=PhilaGardener;706388]Ah, for power tools! :yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:[/QUOTE]
I want to revisit my old vegetable garden on the other bank. It's really not bad for planting considering I plowed a lot of stuff into it back when. But a (knowledgeable) friend said it was too rocky for a tiller. :( Maybe a tractor?....
I live in hope.
Mostly work with hand tools... but Love my power tools. :yes:

ContainerTed June 28, 2018 10:03 PM

Tourist = "Where did all these rocks come from?"

Northeast Farmer = "The glacier brought 'em."

Tourist = "Really. Well, where's the glacier?"

Northeast Farmer = "Went back for more rocks."

Down south here we make walls around our gardens with those rocks and trees. Cuts down on wind damage just a bit if you make it high enough. But, most of all, we don't have to move the rocks and logs so far. With a little bit of masonry cement, you can have a right fine set of walls/dividers/wind breaks around the garden.

BTW, I always did like that glacier joke.

Cole_Robbie June 28, 2018 10:35 PM

If you put a pile of rocks on a pond liner with a pump recirculating a nutrient solution, I think you could grow a great tomato plant. I have not tried it yet, but it is on my bucket list of crazy gardening ideas to try.

Those rocks look like good exercise. Stretch first, and use good form when lifting to prevent injury. Keep your mouth open and exhale as you lift. Grunting is a good thing.

KarenO June 29, 2018 01:36 AM

Beautiful property Bower. Love it!
KarenO

Worth1 June 29, 2018 06:26 AM

[QUOTE=mikemansker;706376]Where did you live in the Ozarks?


I grew up on various farms in southwest/central Missouri. We weren't poor, we were subsistence. If we had more money, we would have been poor.[/QUOTE]

Mountain Grove Mo 10 miles north of town.
Then the Ouachita National forest just across the border from Arkansas.

Dad left Texas running from the heat and lack of rain.

Worth

Worth1 June 29, 2018 06:40 AM

Saw a rock in the picture that reminded me of this.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichenometry[/URL]

bower June 29, 2018 06:57 AM

@Ted... "Went back for more rocks" :twisted::)):))
The funniest part, it's likely true in the long run!! :lol:
Building rock walls is a great idea. I don't know why we don't have more building here using the natural stone. Maybe because there's no raw materials for mortar here? :?!?:

Worth1 June 29, 2018 07:07 AM

[QUOTE=bower;706432]@Ted... "Went back for more rocks" :twisted::)):))
The funniest part, it's likely true in the long run!! :lol:
Building rock walls is a great idea. I don't know why we don't have more building here using the natural stone. Maybe because there's no raw materials for mortar here? :?!?:[/QUOTE]

You can see old dry stack stone fences all over parts of central Texas built over a 100 years ago.

Read a piece years ago about the men that did it and moved on to another property.

Here is one I found just now.
[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZiI6Q3fjbAhXRmq0KHXHpCYkQFggpMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texasescapes.com%2FMikeCoxTexasTales%2FRock-Fences.htm&usg=AOvVaw2Na0hsrJgIfnymq0D-uFS7[/url]

bower June 29, 2018 07:52 AM

[QUOTE=Worth1;706434]You can see old dry stack stone fences all over parts of central Texas built over a 100 years ago.

Read a piece years ago about the men that did it and moved on to another property.

Here is one I found just now.
[URL]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZiI6Q3fjbAhXRmq0KHXHpCYkQFggpMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texasescapes.com%2FMikeCoxTexasTales%2FRock-Fences.htm&usg=AOvVaw2Na0hsrJgIfnymq0D-uFS7[/URL][/QUOTE]
Very nice! :)

I guess one of the issues here is the amount of freezing and thawing we get in the run of a winter. There is no guarantee that what is made of rock will be in the same place come spring time. Building without mortar is a plus because it tends to crack badly after a few seasons in this climate. So there would be maintenance on a stack stone fence but not too hard to fix it. :yes:
You can find huge heaps of stone here bordering any field that was once farmed. Sometimes 3-4 feet high and 4-5 ft wide or bigger... The fact that no machines existed here to do the work, and was done by hand or possibly with the help of a small pony, just leaves me in awe of the gumption these folks had, to make something of a difficult place...

bower June 29, 2018 08:08 AM

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;706401]If you put a pile of rocks on a pond liner with a pump recirculating a nutrient solution, I think you could grow a great tomato plant. I have not tried it yet, but it is on my bucket list of crazy gardening ideas to try.

Those rocks look like good exercise. Stretch first, and use good form when lifting to prevent injury. Keep your mouth open and exhale as you lift. Grunting is a good thing.[/QUOTE]

I like that idea Cole! :D Be sure to pic and post your rock tomato experiments! :yes:
Re exercise vs injury - I was really careful with this rock, and why I took several days just working for a short while at a time, instead of trying to finish up directly... also why I was satisfied to get it just close to where I really wanted. Back in the day I had no qualms about pitching into rocks that were too big to move... on one occasion, according to the doctor I had ripped the muscle off the bones in my ribcage in the process. ... ouch. I had to take "complete rest" to heal it - lying down doing nothing was not an easy task, but it was better in three days.. and a lesson to me.
Unfortunately I am now at an age when I seem to get out of shape really easily, and then become injury prone when you least expect it... I should take up some kind of exercise routine for the winter as snow shoveling is too sporadic and no substitute for the wood cutting I used to do. But I love "work" as exercise!!! Garden projects are the best. :D

taboule June 29, 2018 08:36 AM

Bower, I love your property, the eclectic designs, so free flowing, and the greenhouse :yes:

Kudos to you for managing with these big rocks. My back hurts just looking at the pictures :?:

bower June 29, 2018 11:47 AM

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Tx, Taboule. :) If I'd known about that boulder I might not have been so ambitious!
It is really a pleasure to work with a natural feature that isn't flat... the design has to emerge from it's own character. 8-)

My first garden here was built on the flat gravel scar that was left after building. So I made raised beds and laid them out as a compass. You can see the basic shapes in winter, and of course I used stone to enclose the beds - we have so much of it around, might as well...
I spent a lot of years digging organic material into those clay beds, but they are still kind of poor. However the herbs and perennials that I planted here and which survived and/or naturalized, don't mind it a bit. The garden in August is a riot of flowers, and the paths are overgrown for the most part...some of the perennials are huge. It is a "no care" permaculture that doesn't require any watering or other effort, but it does benefit from some weeding in spring and from occasional reduction of the more invasive things to keep it diverse. In recent years I've been reclaiming some space outside the compass for garlic and vegetable beds. It is also a lot nicer when the paths are whippersnipped as we did last summer... so I want to do that again.

ddsack July 3, 2018 04:57 PM

Really enjoyed reading this thread. Bower, the scenery, rocks and vegetation remind me a lot of the BWCA and Northern Ontario fishing country, not that far from me.

Your ability for long term planning and working around obstacles is admirable! I see now why your greenhouse (and loved seeing that too, finally) is so important to your growing ambitions.

Now if only those danged moose and bunnies would stay away! :twisted:

dustdevil July 3, 2018 05:30 PM

[QUOTE=mikemansker;706376]We weren't poor, we were subsistence. If we had more money, we would have been poor.[/QUOTE]

We used greasy beans for money:twisted:


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