5 gl Gro-Bucket using only 1 Bucket
 

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=6][COLOR=darkred]5 gl Gro-Bucket using only 1 Bucket[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][ATTACH]33755[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]33756[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]33757[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]33758[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]33759[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]33760[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]33761[/ATTACH] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]This first photo is of bucket for sale at the Farmers Mkt.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]The second, fifth, and sixth photos[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B] show a section of the bucket cut away so you can see the inside of the reservoir, using either 4" PVC pipe or 10 mm Coroplast supports, this is the reason that you only need 1 bucket, and its most times cheaper, cleaner to use, and increase the depth of your water reservoir. This is a 2 gl resevior.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]Those are 4" PVC sewer pipes that have been cut to 5 3/4" long. 4 of them can stand upright inside a bucket with room to spare.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]Just left to the bucket is a PVC signboard material called Coroplast 10 mm thickness, very light weight, 2 thin sheets spaced apart with fins every 3/8''. [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]A 4x8' sheet of 10 mm material weighs less than 10 lbs. but is super strong. I'm a big man weighing over 300 lbs. and I, can stand on top of a sheet laying on the floor and not even put a foot impression on the surface.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]To the left is a fabricated X shaped coroplast support I, make, the one you see and is enough to support me standing on top of it. [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]The round 10 mm Coroplast reservoir top, I, cut with a router and my circle-cutter jig.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]Aeration and drain holes thru the side of the bucket. I even have a way to make six 3/4" diameter worm holes thru the bucket for better aeration of the media. [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]Minimum to no draining from the soil-less chamber won't get into your water reservoir, so u know that no smelly foul oders from water saturated soil wicks.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]Total cost for me to build less than $3 per bucket and thats with the soil-less media, add 3 starter tomatoes or other vegetables $0.25.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]All plastic parts are made from #2 or #5 plastic chips.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]About Coroplast: Best material made to make a SIP, SWC, or whatever you want to call them. Super-Strong, very liteweight, you see it everyday along roadways, its called "Politcal Signs" "Yard Sale signs" "New Home signs", etc. but that coroplast is the 4 mm thickness and doesn't have the strength and ridgidity of the 10 mm that I, use. But if you double, or triple it up, it can be used.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]Next to that, there are 2 different types of wicks, the slight yellow one is a Microfiber cleaning cloth for cow udders. 16" x 16" 320 Grams/SM you pobably know it with the TV screen name "Sham-WoW" [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=purple][B]The white round pc. is just a polyester cord, that can be bought at any fabric store, its called Piping Cord.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][SIZE=5][COLOR=darkred][U][B]Cotton vs Polyester:[/B][/U][/COLOR][/SIZE] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][B]Many posts that I, read here say to use cotton. Cotton will rot very fast in water, are you going to chance your growing plants to a wick that may rot off at the reservoir top and fall in the water, disrupting any wicking. [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][B]I've been building these systems for over 23 years, and most of my planters are used continously for years on end without being repotted. But when they are repotted by the customers or they bring them to me, the Polyester wicks are in the same condition as when I, first installed them. Any ways 22/32" diameter Polyester piping cord costs me less than cotton cord. [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][B]Next to that is a 3/4" PVC pipe 11.75" long, no slanted cuts, no holes in the side of the pipe needed. I, do put a 3/4'' PVC coupling on top, that way the inside of the coupling will accept most male ends of hoses. That fill tube is secured to the outside of the bucket with a short sheetmetal screw.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=5][COLOR=darkred][B][U]So what is my cost to build one bucket:[/U][/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]Buckets: $0.50 but most are FREE, the black bucket is from asphalt sealer, made from #2 plastic.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]10 mm Coroplast: 1.5 s/f $FREE I get recycled material, free just haul it away, but if I have to buy it its $0.88 s/f for 4' x 8' sheets.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]Polyester Piping cord $0.14 l/f or 1/3 of a 16" sq. sheet of Microfiber Udder cloth $0.24[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]3/4" x 11 3/4'' PVC fill tube $0.18[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]3/4" PVC coupling $0.22[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]3 - #6 x 1'' sheetmetal screws $0.09[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]1 - #8 x 2" SS screw $0.12[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]1/5 of a hand sqeeze tube of DAP tub and tile caulk $0.30[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]Total cost $1.55 using Piping cord, or if using Microfiber $1.65[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]Add my soil-less mix 3 gls at $0.40 gl.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]Total ready to be planted $2.75 w/ piping cord or $2.85 w/ Microfiber[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][B][COLOR=darkred]Retail costs I get at Trade shows, Plant shows and Farmers Mkt's with 3 peppers $30 ea. 3 herbs $35 ea. 3 Patio tomatos $30 ea.[/COLOR][/B] [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen][B]I'm not boosting about the costs I, pay for items. I'm a 1 man manufacturer and buy in bulk at wholesale prices. But did you know that you also can buy wholesale in your area. Before I, got my tax certificate and buisness liscene, I bought wholesale at many a distributors that wholesale only. No big secret, walk in, go to the sales desk, ask for what you need, they will ask you to fill out a bunch of forms. Tell them you don't do buisness that way and then reach into your pocket and pull out a wad of green bills. 95 out of 100 buisnesses will sell to you at wholesale.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkred][B]Finding a source for Coroplast. [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000018/!x-usc:http://www.coroplast.com/"][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=deepskyblue][B]www.coroplast.com[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkred][B] ask them for a distributor in your area, those distributors can lead you to there sellers. Coroplast is made from #5 plastic chips.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][B][COLOR=blue]Look up "Plastic or Signs" in the yellow pages. But beware, here in SA, TX there are 4 sign suppliers within 1 mile radius of each other, the one with the biggest name is the most expensive, but is the best to get scrap and cut-offs from, some even for FREE. But when I have to buy a full sheet, I call all 4 places to get todays costs. Costs can vary between the 4, as much as $24 a sheet.[/COLOR][/B] [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=seagreen][B]They sell some cut-offs for $2 lb, but a 4x8 sht of 10 mm wieghs less than 10 lbs, thats only $0.47 for 1.5 S/F, so its still a good bargain. But most pcs less than 6" wide, and sometimes 12" are thrown into dumsters. Recycling this is not a option for many plastics suppliers.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkorange][B][COLOR=darkorange]Buying Polyester wicking material, you have to buy two 10 lb spools min. order, less than $6 a pound, 22/32'' diameter, 42 l/f per lb.[/COLOR] [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.textol.com/textol.asp"][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]http://www.textol.com/textol.asp[/SIZE][/FONT][/URL]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=teal][B]Microfiber udder cloths [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][URL="https://maximmart.com/"][SIZE=4]https://maximmart.com/[/SIZE][/URL] [SIZE=4][COLOR=seagreen][B]buy 1 or 1,000 at a time, plus shipping, Order in the 240 pc box's with FREE S/H[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=seagreen][B]Or send me a PM, I, sell the kits to convert a bucket, or round tubs.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#2e8b57][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#2e8b57]Want a sample of the 2 sizes ( 4 & 10 mm ) of Coroplast PM me for details.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

That is quite neat. I would like to do something like that for at my farmers markets.

I've been looking at Global Buckets system but haven't had time to do anything so far. I will keep this thread in mind when we get some time to do something.

Thanks for the good looking system,
Carol

I was actually considering how best to convert some very large pots into SIPs for greens just this morning.

Thank you for the detailed walk through, it's hard to find good pictures of a non-soil wick system!


Tl

Terry,

Thank you for the details on your SIPs. I also use coroplast (free to me on Wednesday after the first Tuesday in November of even numbered years :twisted:) for my SIP flower boxes and Totes. I use 4" PVC pipe for supports and braided polyester rope for wicks. I do like your coroplast support design.

In your photos, it appears your drainage (overflow) holes are positioned just above the platform. Mine are typically 1/2 inch below the platform.

Thoughts or insight?

Thanks,

Rick

Three 1/8" overflow holes per 5 gl SIP
 

[QUOTE=rwsacto;352260]Terry,

Thank you for the details on your SIPs. I also use coroplast (free to me on Wednesday after the first Tuesday in November of even numbered years :twisted:) for my SIP flower boxes and Totes. I use 4" PVC pipe for supports and braided polyester rope for wicks. I do like your coroplast support design.

In your photos, it appears your drainage (overflow) holes are positioned just above the platform. Mine are typically 1/2 inch below the platform.

Thoughts or insight?

Thanks,

Rick[/QUOTE]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=blue]Rick[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=blue]Actually, there are three (3) 1/8" overflow drains in each 5 gl bucket. They are hard to see in a photo, especially on a black bucket. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=blue]Just below every other 7/8" drainage holes, the 1/8" holes are drilled 1/4" down. The coroplast also can be seen thru that overflow hole, if you look straight on.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]By drilling 3 holes every other drain hole, the customer is quaranteed that if the bucket bottom is not level, there will always be a overflow hole that will overflow.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]In my 25 gl, round tubs, there are 8 drain holes, and 4 overflow holes.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]I, always laugh, when I, see people that drill a lot of holes in thier bottoms of thier buckets and call them drain holes. The water is wicked from the bottom, not poured in from the top. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]The media is moist, not wet, at the bottom of the container, so no it doesn't form water per se, that needs draining.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Aeration holes are another laugh. Thats a marketing gimmick.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]How does the air get into the bottom of the bucket, once the water is wicked up to the media in the first place. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]What force will react with air that isn't moving, move it up thru the aeration holes.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Air fills the reservoir void as the water level drops, thru the path of least resistance. That's either thru the overflow holes, or the fill tube.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]I'm going to do a demo, of this tommorrow. you will be able to see the air moving up between the inside of walls of 2 buckets.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]You will be able to see the air flowing thru the overflow drains, and the fill tube, when the reservoir is being refilled.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Terry Layman[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

Very creative. Looks great.

How did you get such a clean bucket after being filled with sealer? That was the most amazing part to me.

[QUOTE=SIP Gro-Tubs;352295][B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=blue]Rick[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

.......
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Aeration holes are another laugh. Thats a marketing gimmick.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]How does the air get into the bottom of the bucket, once the water is wicked up to the media in the first place. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]What force will react with air that isn't moving, move it up thru the aeration holes.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Air fills the reservoir void as the water level drops, thru the path of least resistance. That's either thru the overflow holes, or the fill tube.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]I'm going to do a demo, of this tommorrow. you will be able to see the air moving up between the inside of walls of 2 buckets.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]You will be able to see the air flowing thru the overflow drains, and the fill tube, when the reservoir is being refilled.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Terry Layman[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/QUOTE]

Terry,

Thanks for the detail. Just to summarize (for my understanding) You have large drainage holes in the bucket wall above the shelf, overflow holes in the bucket wall below the shelf and no aeration/drainage holes in the shelf.

My understanding of container aeration is to provide oxygen exchange through diffusion at or near the bottom for the roots to breathe and to prevent anaerobic conditions in the media that will kill roots. Diffusion does not require "force" (moving air or water) to happen. It is driven by the difference of partial pressure of (in this case) oxygen in the air and in the media (gas as well as dissolved in the water). Diffusion will try to equalize the partial pressures. As the roots and bacteria in the media use oxygen, more will flow from the air into the media through the top of the media or through the aeration holes.

In your design, I believe what you call drainage holes are performing as the aeration holes. Therefore, your design works without holes in the shelf. A bit of aeration is probably also happening through the fiber wicks.

In Earthtainers and similar designs with no holes in the container walls and where the shelf is positioned above the overflow holes, I believe the holes in the shelf act as both drainage holes and aeration holes.

Without aeration (in the bucket wall or the shelf) I believe the SIP will still wick water fine, but the bottom will get stinky and the plants will perform poorly.

Volume equalization may be a more accurate term to describe the displacement of air and water in the reservoir. This is simple hydraulics and has nothing to do with drainage or aeration of the media above the shelf. This is what your demo will show.

My thoughts, :)
Rick

[QUOTE=rwsacto;352488]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]Thanks for the detail. Just to summarize (for my understanding) You have large drainage holes in the bucket wall above the shelf, overflow holes in the bucket wall below the shelf and no aeration/drainage holes in the shelf.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff][B]Yes. but since around the edge of shelf is not sealed to the container walls, you will have drainage if needed. But that is the area were there is less water from the wick, compared to the center of the container. Once the moisture from the wick spreads out laterally from the wick, and the soil near the wick gets to the same saturation point as the wick. The wick will stop wicking. [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]


[SIZE=4][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff][B]Its the same as how your own blood system works.[/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]My understanding of container aeration is to provide oxygen exchange through diffusion at or near the bottom for the roots to breathe and to prevent anaerobic conditions in the media that will kill roots. [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]Yes, you understand partially. If aeration is to be effective it needs to be in a upward movement thru-out the whole media column in a continous flow, un-restricted to push the CO2 and other harfull gases out the top of the media, to the underside of the leaf canopy, so the leaves can use it.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]But you have major Restrictions in your design:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]1. Covering the top of the media with plastic sheeting.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]2. Size of the particles of media, to the amount of void between the particles.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]3. Water collecting in the voids between the media particles, since your using a basket to wick water.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/FONT]


[SIZE=4][FONT=Arial]Diffusion does not require "force" (moving air or water) to happen. [/FONT][FONT=Arial]It is driven by the difference of partial pressure [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]Yes, you just explained the force that you call ( difference of partial pressure.) [/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial][B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]What do you think the ( difference of partial pressure ) would be in a enclosed container with 3" depth of water, 5 gls, with a 1" deep air gap above the water, since the water is in a dark confined space it would be relatively cool, cool doesn't rise like hot does, so the air in the air gap just sits there with out any force being applied to it. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4](in this case) oxygen in the air and in the media (gas as well as dissolved in the water). [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]Yes and No, As soon as water under pressure is exposed to air thats not under pressure, the dissolved O2 gases will dissipate out of the water, into the air gap. [/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]An example of this action is the same as if you pour a soda into a glass, the CO2 will diffuse out of the soda, amd become flat in a very short time. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[SIZE=4][FONT=Arial]Diffusion will try to equalize the partial pressures. [/FONT][FONT=Arial]As the roots and bacteria in the media use oxygen, [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]Yes, and they need lots of it to have a healthy enviroment, but remember at the same time they are expelling CO2, which makes a un-healthy enviroment, the same as you. And you want the CO2 to flow upward to be used by the plants leaves, YES.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]more will flow from the air into the media through the top of the media [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]NO, you've blocked that action with the plastic, thus trapping the CO2 in the media, and the plastic is a restriction of O2 moving upwards. [/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]or through the aeration holes. [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]NO, you've blocked that action also with the plastic, on top and by over saturation of water from the wick basket. So now you have filled the voids between soil particles with liguid water instead of keeping just the soil particles moist, leaving the voids free to diffuse gases upwards. [/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

[/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]In your design, I believe what you call drainage holes are performing as the aeration holes. [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]YES & NO. In my systems, I, don't use plastic top coverings. The holes are there for excess water from rain and a nearby sprinkler system. I, use a cedar shreded fiber mulch instead on top. Also the fertilizer is mixed into the bottom 2/3 of the containers, not laid on top. So the idea that un-composted mulch robs the nitrogen is False.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]Therefore, your design works without holes in the shelf. [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]YES. Since the polyester wick doesn't wick as fast as a soil wick would, causing the voids between the media particles be filled with liquid water. The media particles in my system are the extended wicks, leaving the voids empty between media particles.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]A bit of aeration is probably also happening through the fiber wicks. [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]NO, since the O2 dissipates as a gas out of standing water, same as CO2 out of a opened soda. The wick is just transporting water moisture, not what most people think as water coming from a pressurized hose, its not the same.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]In Earthtainers and similar designs with no holes in the container walls and where the shelf is positioned above the overflow holes, I believe the holes in the shelf act as both drainage holes and aeration holes. [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]The only reason you would need drainage is if the media mix is saturated with water. And since bottom watering has been proven to be the best watering system of any contanerized system compared to top watering. Thats why "Wick hysroponic" systems are one of the best for sub irriagatted planters. But if you don't follow the design, it won't work properly. [/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]Without aeration (in the bucket wall or the shelf) I believe the SIP will still wick water fine, but the bottom will get stinky and the plants will perform poorly. [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff]NO, if your media mix is designed for sub-irriagation, the media won't get stinky, soggy, or past the moisture point, to support a anerobic enviroment.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#800080][U]The shelf in a 5 gl bucket has 86.5 square inches.[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Drilling 40 holes, 3/16" dia, would produce a total of 1.1 sq inches for aeration, or 1.28% of the shelf area.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Drilling 40 holes, 1/4" dia, would produce a total of 2.0 sq inches for aeration, or 2.3% of the shelf area.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Drilling 6 holes 7/8" dia. in the side of a 5 gl bucket, for a total of 3.6 sq inches of area for aeration.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]But with those 6 holes, I can increase the aeration of the media to 70.6 sq inches, using a "Worm Hole design"[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#0000ff][U][SIZE=4][COLOR=#800080]The shelf in a 30 gl tote has 390 sq inches.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]With 100 drilled 3/16" holes would produce 2.75 sq inches of area for aeration, or 0.7% of the total shelf area for aeration.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]With 100 drilled 1/4" holes would produce 4.9 sq inches of area for aeration, or 1.3% of the total shelf area for aeration.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]With 6 drilled 7/8" holes thru the outside of the tote would still produce 3.6 sq inches of aeration, but with my "Worm Hole design" that will increase the total aeration in contact with the media to 132 sq inches for aeration, or [SIZE=6][COLOR=#ff0000][U]37 times[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE] more than drilling holes in the shelf.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]


[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Terry Layman[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/QUOTE]

Terry, thanks for sharing your design! My Dad had suggested coroplast, so it looks like that was good advice.

In single container buckets, have you experienced any problems due to the area available for deep rooted plants such as a tomato? I've started out with the two bucket design to provide the most depth for roots but would love to move to a single bucket design.

[QUOTE=jmichaelp;352660]Terry, thanks for sharing your design! My Dad had suggested coroplast, so it looks like that was good advice.

In single container buckets, have you experienced any problems due to the area available for deep rooted plants such as a tomato? I've started out with the two bucket design to provide the most depth for roots but would love to move to a single bucket design.[/QUOTE]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkred]First, Tomato's are not deep rooted. Commercial growers grow 3 Indeterminates with vines over 150' 10 months of the year, in a rockwool slab 3" tall, 6" wide, by 36" long. That less than 1 gl of media per plant. And that media is inert, NO Peatmoss, NO Compost, NO Perlite, Its similar to the insulation used in home construction, made by heating balsalt type of rocks, and the molten mass spun like cottoncandy to form a mat.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]Deep rooted plants, such as 12" carrots, parsnips, horseradish will have a very hard time if the media is saturated with water.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]You need to study the basic principles for growing in a hydroponic wick system.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]1. A continous source of fresh clean water.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]2. A media with the correct amount of nutrients available as the plant needs them.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]Thats it. So now you are scratching your head and thinking I'm crazy, nuts, cuckoo, or what ever.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]There is mention of wick hydroponics in the Bible, the Egytians use it even today. It's very prevalent in SE Asia, and the ancient Mayan's, Aztec's used the same principles to grow food.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]When I grew vegetables in my Cedar Gro-Box's the resevoirs were 6" deep, but the media mix was only 5" deep.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]In a Gro-Box 12" x 18", that's the clear measure of the inside top, inside of the top trim. 1.5 sq/ft. I was able to grow 5 herbs, or 2 tomato's plants.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#8b0000]Terry Layman[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[QUOTE=Master_Gardener;352408]Very creative. Looks great.

How did you get such a clean bucket after being filled with sealer? That was the most amazing part to me.[/QUOTE]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=seagreen]Never said it was cleaned. Asphalt has been used for many years to seal wooden water reservoirs. The sealer is a water emulsified material, once the water evaporates the sealer is imperable to water, it can't be re-wetted with moist soil next to it.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#2e8b57][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#2e8b57]Terry[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

Terry,
Nice job with your design of the Gro-Tubs. A lot of time and thought went into designing your product. You're being very gracious by presenting a detailed format to follow, that allows anyone to build one of these. I personally don't grow in containers, but I plan on trying a couple just to see how they work. I've used the same sign material for my produce stand (which I got at Walmart). It should last a long time. The corrugation makeup of the material make it quite strong and durable. If the one's I make turn out correct, I may put them on display at the market, and see if there's any interest in them. I'll PM you within the next couple of days to get more info. Thanks again for all the information that you've provided.
dpurdy

[QUOTE=dpurdy;355272]Terry,
Nice job with your design of the Gro-Tubs. A lot of time and thought went into designing your product. You're being very gracious by presenting a detailed format to follow, that allows anyone to build one of these. I personally don't grow in containers, but I plan on trying a couple just to see how they work. I've used the same sign material for my produce stand (which I got at Walmart). It should last a long time. The corrugation makeup of the material make it quite strong and durable. If the one's I make turn out correct, I may put them on display at the market, and see if there's any interest in them. I'll PM you within the next couple of days to get more info. Thanks again for all the information that you've provided.
dpurdy[/QUOTE]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy]dpurdy[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]Thanks for posting that reply.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]I, been designing and using these systems for over 23 years.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]Coroplast is available at most Plastic Supply buisnesses. The one I, use is Reece Supply, they are a national company, another company is Regal Plastics, they are national also. Don't have the address's for thier websites tho.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]I, use to sell the 5 gl SIP's at a local farmers market. with 3 peppers or 2 Patio tomatoes, per SIP, Retailed them at $30 ea. Planted with 3 Herbs $35 each.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]Terry[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

That corrugated plastic is also called "Corex" or "Correx"
some places:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrugated_plastic[/url]

Terry - if you wouldn't be giving away trade secrets, could you explain your "wormholes" for aeration? I am about to try to construct a couple of your designed buckets, but I was wondering what you meant by this aspect.
Thanks,
Shawn