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-   -   Grafting with other Solanaceae (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33631)

snugglekitten August 13, 2014 06:40 AM

Grafting with other Solanaceae
 
Anyone brave such an experiment or have data on someone that has?

Potatoes?
Henbane?
Jimson weed?


Best regards,
SK

Tom Wagner August 13, 2014 11:18 AM

I have an ongoing experiment with potato seedlings grafted onto tomato rootstocks, and a more limited tomatoes grafted onto potato seedling rootstocks.

My potato seedlings grafted onto tomatoes are still growing as perennials since October.

Darren Abbey August 13, 2014 04:27 PM

[QUOTE=Tom Wagner;427498]I have an ongoing experiment with potato seedlings grafted onto tomato rootstocks, and a more limited tomatoes grafted onto potato seedling rootstocks.[/QUOTE]

What is the motivation of potatoes on tomato rootstocks? selecting for flower/seed production?

GaMadGardener August 13, 2014 05:04 PM

Do not use Jimson weed!!!!! It was one of the first tried grafting stocks in the 20's, down here in the Southeastern states. Though it produced great plant, the fruit would build up poison. /puke

Mad

Tom Wagner August 13, 2014 11:52 PM

[QUOTE]What is the motivation of potatoes on tomato rootstocks? selecting for flower/seed production?[/QUOTE]

The first round of grafting was to mimic the Thompson & Morgan hand-grafted plants producing potatoes and tomatoes at the same time with its new TomTato. Although the first attempt did, in fact, produce tomatoes and potatoes at the same time ii was done in one gallon containers and I think the results were a bit underwhelming.

The second round of grafting was done with my suggestion to get the potatoes to bloom and bloom over a long time as most potatoes die down about the time of potato berry maturity. Many other promising research agendas from the grafts are on-going.

Tracydr August 14, 2014 02:06 PM

I've seen somewhere that somebody was using eggplant. That would make sense in a hotter climate I assume.

Cole_Robbie August 14, 2014 02:56 PM

[url]www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=32878[/url]

I have a theory that if the above-ground Jimson Weed growth was kept trimmed away, then the tomatoes would not be toxic. But I don't have a lab to test my results, so I didn't try it.

The Jimson Weed patch in the cow field behind my house is an 8' tall jungle. The roots over-winter, which is why it comes back so ferociously. I think an established patch of ground with a Jimson Weed root system in place would grow the biggest tomato plants I have ever seen.

snugglekitten August 15, 2014 03:05 PM

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;427672][url]www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=32878[/url]

I have a theory that if the above-ground Jimson Weed growth was kept trimmed away, then the tomatoes would not be toxic. But I don't have a lab to test my results, so I didn't try it.

The Jimson Weed patch in the cow field behind my house is an 8' tall jungle. The roots over-winter, which is why it comes back so ferociously. I think an established patch of ground with a Jimson Weed root system in place would grow the biggest tomato plants I have ever seen.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link, and thanks for the information, Tom, Cole, et all.

I would like to try henbane because the of the outrageous root system, so if anyone has a hint of where to get the seed (and assuming its legal in EU/USA) please let me know.

GaMadGardener August 15, 2014 04:25 PM

[url]http://companionplants.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=183&osCsid=1473abc3706c5aba59a6ab4700884ccc[/url]

snugglekitten August 16, 2014 12:23 PM

[QUOTE=GaMadGardener;427789][url]http://companionplants.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=183&osCsid=1473abc3706c5aba59a6ab4700884ccc[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE][I]An important witch plant - reported side effects have included insanity and death.[/I][/QUOTE]

Witch plants are hardcore.

Don't try this one at home, kids.

RootLoops August 16, 2014 08:53 PM

it's so crazy that the same family of plants that potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplants belong to also includes such deadly toxin producers! i can remember as a teen seeing a "shocking" news story on a tabloid show about jimson weed, supposedly the "new way kids are getting high" i can remember trying to find some to trip on, as that was the mindset i had as a teen, always looking for shrooms and the like. all i had to go on was the encyclopedia entry on jimson weed, luckily i never found any, i'm almost certain i wouldn't be the same if i had survived.

snugglekitten August 17, 2014 04:54 AM

Tomatoes are the exception to the rule.


Tobacco is the world's most consumbed stimulant.
Potatoes are toxic when consumed raw.
The other solanaceae don't have a stellar reputation.
Even the leaves of tomato plants are toxic.


Its actually pretty logical that Europeans where whigged out about consuming tomatoes for so long, given the generally high level of botanical knowledge back then.


Jamestown was supposed to be a giant tobacco plantation and its interesting that the pilgrims were getting wasted on Jimson weed during the long, dismal winter hours.

Kinda puts Salem into perspective.

GaMadGardener August 18, 2014 04:30 AM

Have you thought of trying The ‘Devil Plant’ [I]Solanum capsicoides, or [/I]
[I][I][B]Solanum quitoense[/B][/I], known as [B]naranjilla.[/B]
Mad
[/I]

snugglekitten August 18, 2014 05:36 PM

[QUOTE=GaMadGardener;428102]Have you thought of trying The ‘Devil Plant’ [I]Solanum capsicoides, or [/I]
[I][I][B]Solanum quitoense[/B][/I], known as [B]naranjilla.[/B]
Mad
[/I][/QUOTE]

No,

Actually I can't believe how we moderns are in such shock that Europeans didn't eat this fruit for several hundred years.

Solonaceae are a veritable snakespit of toxic alkaloids.

natekurz August 26, 2014 02:21 PM

I've got a handful of tomato grafts growing this year on Black Beauty Eggplant (Solanum melongena) and Gbogname (S. Macrocarpon). While there are several potentially confounding factors (timing, soil, graft quality), performance on both has been extremely poor. Flavor doesn't seem to be adversely affected, but the plants on both are stunted and the fruits are small and scarce. It hasn't been a very encouraging experiment. By contrast, the couple dozen grafts I have on the commercial rootstock Multifort (S. lycopersicum × S. habrochaites) are generally doing better than the same varieties on their own roots.

snugglekitten August 26, 2014 06:11 PM

[QUOTE=natekurz;429431]I've got a handful of tomato grafts growing this year on Black Beauty Eggplant (Solanum melongena) and Gbogname (S. Macrocarpon). While there are several potentially confounding factors (timing, soil, graft quality), performance on both has been extremely poor. Flavor doesn't seem to be adversely affected, but the plants on both are stunted and the fruits are small and scarce. It hasn't been a very encouraging experiment. By contrast, the couple dozen grafts I have on the commercial rootstock Multifort (S. lycopersicum × S. habrochaites) are generally doing better than the same varieties on their own roots.[/QUOTE]

Much obliged for you sharing your experiment, Nate.

I did a potato/tomato fiasco a few years back and was rather disapointed in both sides of the spectrum.

snugglekitten August 30, 2014 10:27 AM

Here are a few more Solanaceae I discovered on a certain seed company's list (omitting company so no one thinks I'm trying to sneak in an advert for someone):

I am listing these because they are exotic and perhaps unknown to you, and also edible:

SOLANUM MURICATUM
SOLANUM QUITOENSE

RootLoops August 30, 2014 07:34 PM

those look interesting!

carolyn137 August 30, 2014 09:31 PM

[QUOTE=snugglekitten;429963]Here are a few more Solanaceae I discovered on a certain seed company's list (omitting company so no one thinks I'm trying to sneak in an advert for someone):

I am listing these because they are exotic and perhaps unknown to you, and also edible:

SOLANUM MURICATUM
SOLANUM QUITOENSE[/QUOTE]

Not unknown to me . First, I knew that Baker Creek had some not well known Solanums from reading the catalog and same for Tradewinds website, but I Googled them anyway to see all seed sources that might have them.


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanum[/url]

In the above link the two you mention are noted under food crops,pepino and Narajilla. I know the latter is mostly tropical in nature but had to Google pepino/

What traits of those two might contribute to new tomato varieties?

Lots of places for S.muricatum seeds

[url]https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=solanum+muricatum+seeds[/url]

And lots ofplaces for the other one as well.

[url]https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=solanum+quitoense+seeds[/url]

No adverts here b'c anyone can Google them.

Trade Winds and BakerCreek are the best known for carrying seeds like that.

Last year I was sent seeds for Naranjilla ( sp) by the same person who sent me tomato seeds for Loka, a variety from Accra, Ghana, and no way could I grow those seeds here and get anything productive unless I had a nice greenhouse.:)

Which is why I asked how these two species might be advantageous in a breeding program.Should be interesting to do, and no problem if you don't wish to anser, for I was mainly curious about the tropical nature of both having genes that might be of use in tomatoes, which did originate in the temperate high plains of mainly Chile and Peru, not in the lower terrain of tropical jungles.

Carolyn

snugglekitten August 31, 2014 05:10 PM

[QUOTE=carolyn137;430022]Not unknown to me . First, I knew that Baker Creek had some not well known Solanums from reading the catalog and same for Tradewinds website, but I Googled them anyway to see all seed sources that might have them.


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanum[/url]

In the above link the two you mention are noted under food crops,pepino and Narajilla. I know the latter is mostly tropical in nature but had to Google pepino/

What traits of those two might contribute to new tomato varieties?

Lots of places for S.muricatum seeds

[url]https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=solanum+muricatum+seeds[/url]

And lots ofplaces for the other one as well.

[url]https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=solanum+quitoense+seeds[/url]

No adverts here b'c anyone can Google them.

Trade Winds and BakerCreek are the best known for carrying seeds like that.

Last year I was sent seeds for Naranjilla ( sp) by the same person who sent me tomato seeds for Loka, a variety from Accra, Ghana, and no way could I grow those seeds here and get anything productive unless I had a nice greenhouse.:)

Which is why I asked how these two species might be advantageous in a breeding program.Should be interesting to do, and no problem if you don't wish to anser, for I was mainly curious about the tropical nature of both having genes that might be of use in tomatoes, which did originate in the temperate high plains of mainly Chile and Peru, not in the lower terrain of tropical jungles.

Carolyn[/QUOTE]

Hi Carolyn,

I am posting for grafting purposes, not breeding, and its not a scientific basis I have for assuming they will be useful, just a hunch -

When grafting a potato-tomato together I got a tomato that had a dull-"potatoey" taste, and I also read that a tomato with a tobacco plant will have a small nicotine content, therefore perhaps grafting with a sweet solanum could create a sweeter tomato.

I mean, it may just be worth a shot, people are grafting with lots of different solonaceae but there are SO many, I doubt all have been done before, and something worthwhile may come up, who knows.

Personally I don't want to graft with any poisonous plants, even if they happen to have traits that could be beneficial.

Plus I know what you mean about upstate NY - I live in a somewhat similar area, colder continental climate, so perhaps I won't be the person to successfully pull this off, but I still think grafting is a fun hobby, and as I already said - its more of a fun thing than anything serious data collection or trials.

I do want to breed more with wild tomatoes to introduce increased disease resistence, having done only a little without real trials for these traits, but my grafting experiments are mostly just to satisfy my (strange perhaps) curiousity.

The naranjilla is supposed to be REALLY sweet, so worse comes to worse, I grow a few and have a great, exotic fruit to taste.

I don't have any real evidence to assume that grafting with a sweet solanum will create a sweeter tomato, but doing a few trials wouldn't hurt me either.

nick1977 May 1, 2017 07:57 PM

i got my devil plant solanum capsicoides and will be grafting with tomatoes n eggplants and will try capsicums in the spring its autumn in melbourne

has anyone done this ?

StrongPlant August 5, 2017 01:40 PM

I have grafted 6 plants of 5 different tomato varieties onto S.dulcamara rootstocks grown from seed. 5 out of 6 grafts took.The season is ending soon here but will be enough time to evaluate how the grafted plants perform.

StrongPlant August 7, 2017 01:28 PM

Here are some of the grafted plants,they've grown a bit stince they've been taken out of the healing chamber:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nv7dfED.jpg[/IMG]

crmauch August 9, 2017 10:49 AM

[QUOTE=snugglekitten;427963]Potatoes are toxic when consumed raw.
[/QUOTE]

This isn't quite correct. Potatoes give indigestion when eaten raw as uncooked starch isn't easily digested. The tubers generally don't have a large amount of the toxic alkaloids.

[URL]http://www.livestrong.com/article/523041-the-risks-of-eating-raw-potatoes/[/URL]


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