Fusarium Wilt
 

I posted on other threads about what is happening with a few of our tomato plants. I am to understand that it is Fusarium Wilt or FF or FFF. I noticed these two Sweet Million plants looking bad last night. They looked worse this morning. We went shopping/bill paying for 5 hours and came home to see the plants looking like this.

This is a comparison to two tomato plants growing beside the ones pictured above. These two plants are Anna Aasa and Sweetie Cherry. They are all in the same raised bed.

Being in the same bed I dont think it is F wilt.
I am not a disease expert by any means.

Worth

My wilt is starting to break out everywhere. I had the horrible thought that maybe I spread it all around with my scissors as I pruned the plants.

That part is throwing me off too Worth. There are healthy looking tomato plants growing 3' away.

I also noticed something odd while hanging out clothes. This plant has been growing there for years - notice how one branch has turned brown/black. It isn't broken or anything obvious. I tried to get a close-up picture but it came out so blurry it hurts your eyes.

bought plants or started yourself by seed?
We had a blight a few years ago that was linked to certain plant vendors/soil.

All were started by me from seed.

I did buy two plants, but they are in another garden 90+' away.

I'm so sorry Salt. Yep, it looks to be one of the Wilts. You could cut the stem and place it in a clear container of water. If it is Bacterial Wilt, there will be a milky substance coming out of the stem. Not that it matters much which one it is.

[QUOTE=MissS;644199]I'm so sorry Salt. Yep, it looks to be one of the Wilts. You could cut the stem and place it in a clear container of water. If it is Bacterial Wilt, there will be a milky substance coming out of the stem. Not that it matters much which one it is.[/QUOTE]

But bacterial would be airborne right, not soil?
Worth

No my understanding is that it is soil-borne. I have been wrong before though.

It sure looks like fusarium wilt to me and I have seen a lot of it over the years. The first or second year I was gardening in this location the local extension expert came out to see my garden after I took in a couple of dying tomato plants. He said I couldn't grow tomatoes in my soil because I had such a terrible fusarium wilt problem. He said the only type I could possibly have any luck with were hybrid varieties that had FF resistance and RKN resistance. For years those were the only types I grew but eventually became tired of the sameness and the rather uninspiring flavor of most of those varieties with the exception of Big Beef. I finally started growing heirlooms with very limited success as most of them died rather quickly and most didn't live long enough to even set any usable fruit. I started keeping large numbers of replacement plants and trying all kinds of things to protect them but it was mostly a matter of luck. If we had a really cold winter then the next year I would lose less plants and have to replace fewer dead ones the first few months. Basically that is how I got into staggered planting dates which I still use. Sometimes I could replace a plant killed by fusarium with another variety or even the same variety of heirloom and that plant might do okay despite the fact that it was in the same spot. Sometimes I would replace the plants in several spots every month or so and never get one to survive yet the one right next to it might do fine for months before finally getting sick. The very next year the spot that was terrible would be okay and the spot that seemed to have less fusarium the year before might be the worst spot in the garden. So to answer your question. Yes you can have plants in the same bed not be affected right next to plants dying from fusarium. I never found a true rhyme or reason for the disparity.

As I got older and my health became worse doing all that removing and replacing plants just got to be too much especially when the third race of fusarium wilt showed up in my garden and fewer and fewer plants survived for any reasonable length of time and my FF resistant hybrids rarely lived much longer than some of the heirlooms, I gave in to the inevitable and began grafting onto FFF resistant root stock. It was a good bit of trouble figuring out a procedure that gave me good results grafting but it was certainly rewarding knowing I can at least for the time being grow any variety I want just as long as I can get a good graft.

Bill

Bill, there's not a better teacher than experience. Thank you.

I did look for VFN seeds locally today, and there were none. I do have around 15 Big Beef VFFNTA F1 seeds I could get started Friday June 2 which is still one month before the recommended seed starting for a fall garden here.

I have read a lot about grafting, and it is still confusing to me.

The rest of this is/are just thoughts on what I have seen in 7 years of tomato gardening:

I read a lot about crosses and F1s, and I have accidentally created my own crosses, received other people's crosses, and got wrong seeds from purchases from seed selling companies. What I have found about these crosses is that they grow faster and bigger plants with better tasting tomatoes. I think that is what others call Hybrid Vigor. I have also experienced F2s not being as good, and F3s have been awful. Then there is an F4 that is producing very well even though RKN is there and the plant is a lot smaller but no signs of fusarium.

That leaves me wondering about a lot of things. We have a Big Beef VFFNTA F1 tomato that is now well past first blush. Could I take seeds from it - and would they still be VFFNTA? If so, I could start seeds tomorrow -June 2 ^ same as above without having to use F1 seeds. (Yes, I pinch pennies that much.)

The idea is to cross Big Beef VFFNTA with varieties of Campari, Sweetie Cherry, Porter, Sungold, Sun Cherry Extra Sweet, Sun Sugar, Amish Gold, Rebel Yell, and whatever I clone.

I do not look at having RKN and Fusarium as a reason to stop gardening. I see it at as a reason to improve gardening.

Big Beef is a good hybrid to use as long as you don't have that third race of fusarium wilt. I guess the best way to find out is plant a bunch of Big Beefs and if they all stay fusarium free then you don't have to worry for now.

As to using the seed from Big Beefs I have done that and the resulting tomato plants were not always as good nor as disease resistant so you should talk to someone who knows more about that type of thing than I do.

Bill

Salt, since you seem to have some time to experiment given your longer season, why not root a bunch of small cuttings off your Big Beef plants, start some seeds from the OP varieties you mentioned, and try your hand at grafting?

This would be a cheaper way to learn grafting as you wouldn't have to spend the money on rootstock seed or more Big Beef seed. You would need clips, but if you don't want to invest in large amounts right now, Tomato Growers Supply sells a few sizes in 20-packs for less than $4. And there are very good and patient coaches in the 2017 grafting thread who will help you at every step along the way.

You could still do your crossing experiments, but those would need many subsequent grow outs before you'd know if they worked. Grafting could give you some good tomatoes to enjoy while you wait!

[QUOTE=b54red;644281]Big Beef is a good hybrid to use as long as you don't have that third race of fusarium wilt. I guess the best way to find out is plant a bunch of Big Beefs and if they all stay fusarium free then you don't have to worry for now.

As to using the seed from Big Beefs I have done that and the resulting tomato plants were not always as good nor as disease resistant so you should talk to someone who knows more about that type of thing than I do.

Bill[/QUOTE]

Bill your experience answered my question about F2 Big Beef. As I sat here and thought about it - this is the first year that I have had Big Beef plants survive and produce in the garden. In 2015, I blamed the record amount of rain on the demise of a lot of tomato plants. It rained every day for 7 weeks From May through mid June. To me, it made sense to blame it all on the rain.

Last year, Big Beef plants didn't get as big as the Sweet Million plants are this year. The Big Beef plants looked the same as the first pictures in this thread. That's when I learned about RKN and I figured it was RKN that killed the plants. What didn't make sense was that the Big Beef plants were some of the first to die.

[QUOTE=Father'sDaughter;644294]Salt, since you seem to have some time to experiment given your longer season, why not root a bunch of small cuttings off your Big Beef plants, start some seeds from the OP varieties you mentioned, and try your hand at grafting?

This would be a cheaper way to learn grafting as you wouldn't have to spend the money on rootstock seed or more Big Beef seed. You would need clips, but if you don't want to invest in large amounts right now, Tomato Growers Supply sells a few sizes in 20-packs for less than $4. And there are very good and patient coaches in the 2017 grafting thread who will help you at every step along the way.

You could still do your crossing experiments, but those would need many subsequent grow outs before you'd know if they worked. Grafting could give you some good tomatoes to enjoy while you wait![/QUOTE]

Father'sDaughter, I do have time to experiment. It looks like I need to try some FFF,N seeds. There is no doubt that I do have RKN in the soil and Fusarium. After remembering the past 3 years of growing Big Beef - it seems that this year, I just happened to plant in an area less affected by Fusarium. Big Beef is VFFNTA.

Going back to what Bill has posted - it makes sense that it is FFF in the garden as well as RKN. I will experiment with some plants including planting some Big Beef seeds later today when I can walk better.

[QUOTE=MissS;644199]I'm so sorry Salt. Yep, it looks to be one of the Wilts. You could cut the stem and place it in a clear container of water. If it is Bacterial Wilt, there will be a milky substance coming out of the stem. Not that it matters much which one it is.[/QUOTE]

Patti, yes, that is one thing I'm going to do today. I have not walked out to the plants yet, but looking at them through the window - they look even worse than yesterday. If I were to cut off the yellow sections and those with wilt - there wouldn't be anything left. I will pull them today and post the results of the bacterial wilt test and cut into the stems to see if it is Fusarium. Of course, also look at the roots for RKN.

Going to the zoo Wednesday has caught up to me. I was hoping it wouldn't happen.

I didn't see any milk. There is RKN, and this is what it looks like inside.

Salt, cut a stem through lengthwise. Fusarium presents as darkened vascular tissues, almost always going up one side at first, then spreads around the entire stem vascular system.(xylem and phloem)

It is dark inside. The plant snaps like a dried stick. It should show up better sitting on a piece of copy paper. It looks like dirt, but it isn't.

It's fusarium. Very sorry.

My condolences as well.

Looking at a pic of one of my stems, I am noticing that I have the brown going mostly down one side.

Do you think this is Fusarium also?

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;644385]My condolences as well.

Looking at a pic of one of my stems, I am noticing that I have the brown going mostly down one side.

Do you think this is Fusarium also?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I am afraid so. Fusarium is such bad news. Soil borne and doesn't leave. You might have to go to container gardening using sterile bagged mix, and a barrier such as a thick gauge plastic bag like fertilizers and potting mixes come in, andthat barrier put under the pot to keep the native soil out. I know B54red grafts to fusarium resistant rootstocks too. Another option is to buy FFF marked seeds.
Yours is an early stage.

That stinks, very sorry .:no:

Thank you for telling us Marsha.

Cole, my condolences.

I'm just going to graft everything from now on. Adversity is an opportunity to improve one's skills. I'm honestly a little excited about it. I am also going to try to stabilize some hybrid root stocks into OP form. I am not aware of anyone having tried to do such a thing.

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;644394]Thank you for telling us Marsha.

Cole, my condolences.[/QUOTE]

You are welcome.

I am actually glad that it is soil borne. I already have RKN in the soil. I'm glad it isn't air borne. I have an idea for container growing, but I need to think it out more. If I use containers, I'll only grow 11 plants. Before RKN got bad, we grew 13 tomato plants in the garden and had plenty of tomatoes.

I also have another set of raised beds I'm going to try growing in this fall. They may have Fusarium and RKN in them too, but I won't know until I plant some tomatoes in them.

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;644452]I am actually glad that it is soil borne. I already have RKN in the soil. I'm glad it isn't air borne. I have an idea for container growing, but I need to think it out more. If I use containers, I'll only grow 11 plants. Before RKN got bad, we grew 13 tomato plants in the garden and had plenty of tomatoes.

I also have another set of raised beds I'm going to try growing in this fall. They may have Fusarium and RKN in them too, but I won't know until I plant some tomatoes in them.[/QUOTE]

It is tough to go with containers in the heat of the south. It only takes one or two times of letting them dry out too much to lose your blossoms. I too tried the container route to avoid fusarium wilt but it was so frustrating. It is really tricky trying to maintain a proper amount of soil moisture when they have fruit on them near the ripening stage. As easy as it is for plants to split in the ground I found it even more of a problem in containers. I did have some notable successes but also some failures. The warmer containers will further impede fruit set which is already difficult in the southern climate due to the heat and humidity. Container growing is much more difficult and demanding than learning to graft.

Bill

[QUOTE=b54red;644465]It is tough to go with containers in the heat of the south. It only takes one or two times of letting them dry out too much to lose your blossoms. I too tried the container route to avoid fusarium wilt but it was so frustrating. It is really tricky trying to maintain a proper amount of soil moisture when they have fruit on them near the ripening stage. As easy as it is for plants to split in the ground I found it even more of a problem in containers. I did have some notable successes but also some failures. The warmer containers will further impede fruit set which is already difficult in the southern climate due to the heat and humidity. Container growing is much more difficult and demanding than learning to graft.

Bill[/QUOTE]

Besides letting them get too dry, I was also thinking of when it rains every day for a while here. The only time that doesn't happen is during drought years. That is part of what I need to think more about. Also about the containers getting too hot here.

Learning to graft would mean I would be growing in ground which is how I've always grown. I do enjoy growing in ground. Last year, when I learned about having RKN - it took the wind out of my sails so-to-speak. Finding out there is Fusarium too explains the wilt that has happened for years.

About a month ago, we were driving the back roads near our house. Not one gardener that usually has a garden has a garden this year. I'm thinking in 2015, when we got over 73" of rain made RKN breed a whole lot more. I haven't researched Fusarium Wilt enough to know if that much rain could have made it worse too or not. A lady that my wife works with was telling me that her tomatoes were looking great and then the plants started turning yellow and were shriveling up. She lives a mile and a half from us. It was Thursday when she told me about her tomato plants. She is going to retire at 65 in a little over a year and she wants to garden with her disabled husband. I'm telling all this because I am the one who got her interested in gardening in 2016. They had a wonderful crop last year. I'm the one who started their tomato plants from seed for them.

There is a similar story about peppers and another of my wife's coworkers. We would give her peppers and she and her mother would make sauce and tamales that they shared with us.

That is part of why I will continue gardening. But if I wrote out all the reasons - this post would go on forever.

[QUOTE=b54red;644465]It is tough to go with containers in the heat of the south. It only takes one or two times of letting them dry out too much to lose your blossoms. I too tried the container route to avoid fusarium wilt but it was so frustrating. It is really tricky trying to maintain a proper amount of soil moisture when they have fruit on them near the ripening stage. As easy as it is for plants to split in the ground I found it even more of a problem in containers. I did have some notable successes but also some failures. The warmer containers will further impede fruit set which is already difficult in the southern climate due to the heat and humidity. Container growing is much more difficult and demanding than learning to graft.

Bill[/QUOTE]

Bill have you ever tried the self watering containers? My Earthboxes have a 3 gallon water reservoir, and the overflow spout is 3 inches off the ground, they have a solid bottom so bad things can't get in, and because of the overflow spout, it's impossible to over water them. The plastic comes in white if you want to keep the pots cool, and other colors too, and it's a non degrading plastic, people are getting over 30 years out of them so far. So you only have the expense once, and they have sales with free shipping several times per year. I never have grafted, and nematodes and fusarium are a non issue.

There is some semi promising research using myco's to fight fusarium.
Don't think its ready for prime time, but might be better than nothing.