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-   -   Early Goliath is back, well, sort of (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=46381)

WaltRoos January 6, 2018 09:24 AM

Early Goliath is back, well, sort of
 
I have been in touch with Totally Tomatoes about 10 days ago. They said that they have found a "New" tomato to be the "Early Goliath". I contacted them because their 2018 catalog showed their Early Goliath tomato to be Tswv Resistant, early, and Indeterminate.
I lost all my tomatoes last year to Tswv. Their catalog said that they no longer were offering that tomato and that they were substituting Early Girl.

Allen Pyle at TotallyTomatoes (Jungseed ?) answered back, that they had found a new replacement from Israel. And yes it is TSWV , YLCV resistant. It will be the first year they have offered it and they have corrected the web page and will Not be substituting Early Girl for Early Goliath. If you order Earth Goliath from them, you will receive the New Type. He also said that any other sources of Early Goliath will not be the new type.

I ordered some a few days ago, after I had already ordered 45 seeds of the old type ? from Hirt's Gardens.

walt

Nan_PA_6b January 6, 2018 12:29 PM

Oooooh, that's going to be confusing. They could have had the decency to give the new tomato a new name. Will you be growing the two Early Goliaths side by side to give us a report?

Nan

carolyn137 January 6, 2018 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaltRoos (Post 676864)
I have been in touch with Totally Tomatoes about 10 days ago. They said that they have found a "New" tomato to be the "Early Goliath". I contacted them because their 2018 catalog showed their Early Goliath tomato to be Tswv Resistant, early, and Indeterminate.
I lost all my tomatoes last year to Tswv. Their catalog said that they no longer were offering that tomato and that they were substituting Early Girl.

Allen Pyle at TotallyTomatoes (Jungseed ?) answered back, that they had found a new replacement from Israel. And yes it is TSWV , YLCV resistant. It will be the first year they have offered it and they have corrected the web page and will Not be substituting Early Girl for Early Goliath. If you order Earth Goliath from them, you will receive the New Type. He also said that any other sources of Early Goliath will not be the new type.

I ordered some a few days ago, after I had already ordered 45 seeds of the old type ? from Hirt's Gardens.

walt

There is NO variety that is totally RESISTANT to anything, the operative word is TOLERANT.And there are many factors involved that play into the word tolerant.

This was shown many years ago when several large scale tomato growers ordered seeds that were supposed to be resistant to this and that, and they weren't.

Law suits followed and the US Tomato Assoc, or whatever they are called supported the change from resistant to tolerant.

Sadly,those who sell seeds still insist that this or that variety has multiple disease resistances to this or that.That's how they make their money.

I did spend some time Googling and didn't find exactly what I wanted but this link may help a bit.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...w=1706&bih=815

Carolyn, and yes, Jung's bought out Wayne Hilton's former stable of companies,except one, and Wayne is back with his Seeds n Such catalog. And I have to contact him about several errors in it but most important is where on page 10 he said Dr.Randy Gardner had retired, I have to tell him yes he did, and he also died last year at age 101.

WaltRoos January 6, 2018 02:03 PM

Resistant vs Tolerant and such
 
Thanks Carolyn,

I think my own definition of Resistant is what you are defining as Tolerant. I'm thinking that Resistant, to some folks then, must mean Immune. Which seems to be very unlikely with tomatoes.

Since most seed companies are using the term " Resistant " then we are stuck with that. But, perhaps we should have an agreed on set of standards for degree of Resistance. I see Bonnie Plants? is using the term "Super Resistant" and I sometimes see the term " Intermediate Resistant " . I think a scale of 1-10 would be helpful to those of us who care that much about such things.

OK I'm done with that I hope. But, probably not.

Nan,
Good Idea to grow out both my New Early Goliath and the Old Goliath tomato seeds. Perhaps two of each ?
2017 was the first year for TSWV in my garden, so I don't know how likely it is to return in 2018. I think it will return.
Of course I know the White Flies from hell will be back.

76 and still having growing pains,

walt

PS On the naming thing. I just don't have enough information about just how different those two seed types may be from each other, so I'll just go with Totally Tomatoes decision to keep the name Early Goliath. Except I'll add the word "New" to the name.

carolyn137 January 6, 2018 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaltRoos (Post 676901)
Thanks Carolyn,

I think my own definition of Resistant is what you are defining as Tolerant. I'm thinking that Resistant, to some folks then, must mean Immune. Which seems to be very unlikely with tomatoes.

Since most seed companies are using the term " Resistant " then we are stuck with that. But, perhaps we should have an agreed on set of standards for degree of Resistance. I see Bonnie Plants? is using the term "Super Resistant" and I sometimes see the term " Intermediate Resistant " . I think a scale of 1-10 would be helpful to those of us who care that much about such things.

OK I'm done with that I hope. But, probably not.

Nan,
Good Idea to grow out both my New Early Goliath and the Old Goliath tomato seeds. Perhaps two of each ?
2017 was the first year for TSWV in my garden, so I don't know how likely it is to return in 2018. I think it will return.
Of course I know the White Flies from hell will be back.

76 and still having growing pains,

walt

PS On the naming thing. I just don't have enough information about just how different those two seed types may be from each other, so I'll just go with Totally Tomatoes decision to keep the name Early Goliath. Except I'll add the word "New" to the name.

You are seeing how coufused the whole situation is re resistant,super resistant,immune, et..

Please consider the following.

We humans are mammals,mammals have an immune system, plants do not.

We mammals have two parts to our immune systems,antibodies, which are found in the blood and produced in the pancreas and spleen and bone marrow, and the cellular system.

First antibodies.

We have IgG, then M, then A1 and A2,then D and then E, and each has a specific roles in the body.

The cellular system is composed of well, cells and includes

Phagocytic cells, PMN's Monocytes, eosinophils, T helper and T killer cells .

In my former academic life I graduated from the University of Rochester Medical school in in Rochester,NY, and my concentration was diseases and the immune response.

And I "tried" to teach Med Students at two medical centers, first at Rochester and then at the Med School in Denver.

Mammals have immune systems,not all are like the human system, but close enough.

There are those who have suggested that spraying aspirin on plants can induce immunity,but has shown not to be true

https://www.google.com/search?q=aspi...&bih=815&dpr=1

From the top of the above page read the third link down where there is a ? next to the word immunity, I didn't read it but when I see immunity ?, I know what that means.

Summary? There will never be agreement on this issue,never, but above I've given my opinion,someone who has taught diseases and the immune response as well as grown all different kinds of plants, and of course that includes tomatoes.;)

I rest my case, as it were.:)

Carolyn

WaltRoos January 6, 2018 06:56 PM

Gee Whiz,
You may want to read that "link". I don't have the knowledge , experience, or interest to look into the immune system in plants, but seems like they may have one. I don't have a case to rest, but I do ask for immunity.:evil:



walt

KarenO January 6, 2018 08:31 PM

:) don’t worry about all of that biz too much.
Hopefully it will perform in your garden and your crop does not suffer as much as last year.
Is There another factor such as an insect vector which would increase your odds of success if controlled as well? I am fortunate not to be intimately familiar with this disease in my area as yet.
KarenO

WaltRoos January 7, 2018 12:19 PM

Thirps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO (Post 676979)
:) don’t worry about all of that biz too much.
Hopefully it will perform in your garden and your crop does not suffer as much as last year.
Is There another factor such as an insect vector which would increase your odds of success if controlled as well? I am fortunate not to be intimately familiar with this disease in my area as yet.
KarenO

This is a small bit of the information out there on TSWV.:

https://intranet.ces.ncsu.edu/2017/0...local-problem/

I have read several publications that said that had the tomato breeders not been able to develop the TSWV tolerant tomatoes quickly, we would have lost the commercial tomato business in the Southeast. Thanks Guys. Now they need to keep working on making them not so firm and more tasty for home gardens. There are quite a few available now to choose from so things are looking up.
My wife is one of those Master Gardner people with many hundreds of plants, so, no way can I hope to get rid of all the Thirps, which are the "insect vector" for spreading TSWV. It only takes a few Thirps to infect a tomato patch as they move from plant to plant. So I've heard. :?:

walt


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