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-   -   Lateral branching, long stolons etc in potatoes-Pictures (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=30203)

wmontanez October 5, 2013 12:36 PM

Lateral branching, long stolons etc in potatoes-Pictures
 
First attempt to take pictorial evidence of potatoes varieties with potential of setting potatoes along the main stem and sending stolons away from it's original base. My motivation is no other that "Just because" I do see potential that this sort of information will benefit many more people that have curiosity and better themselves at this wonderful hobby of growing delicious food that are not available to the masses or your typical supermarket varieties.

I want to express my gratitude to a fellow gardener in this forum: NathanP for helping to replicate this in his Rhode Island garden. Also want to thank Durgan for inspiring me more (regardless of the perceived attitude of other people in this forum might have of his take on our TPS potato growing). Without questions there are no answers, right?

Reference Diagram (from Thomas Wagner)
http://i.imgur.com/eX2yysa.jpg

Quote from Fusion_Power post #52 http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...t=27289&page=4
"Virtually all commercial potatoes are genetically incapable of producing multiple shoots with multiple spuds on the stolons. Tom has tried to show that there is a different type of potato that grows with a strong branching habit. I would refer to it as lateral branch fruitful because each new lateral branch that forms also has the ability to set new stolons with more spuds."

If the plant is not buried instead of stolons and new potatoes, Will the plant just branch out and get big?

I planted 3 seeds left side of the picture. The plants only get water when it rains. No supplemental or irrigation.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F...95-no/CIP1.jpg

Plant#1
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y...o/IMG_0047.JPG

I see stolons originating from the base and emerge as a new plant and also making more new potatoes (bottom part of the picture)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X...o/depthCIP.JPG

Plant#2
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_...ip+stolons.JPG

Closer look at the section that broke off while digging the plant, note the length of stolons forming new potatoes....

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5...on-lateral.JPG


With all this above I wish it does not start another thread hijacking and that we focus on the pictures presented above and the main point of this thread. To share information about "Lateral branching, long stolons etc in potatoes".

This variety CIP366256 had some small stolons starting to form above the seed piece but not clear if I let it die down would it continue to send more stolons nor develop new potatoes. More evidence is needed to convince myself that this variety has that potential illustrated in Tom's diagram above, the total hilling was ~12in.

NathanP October 5, 2013 03:12 PM

I'll be posting mine shortly ... I have some of Papa Chonca that I took today that show tubers forming on the buried stem, not just on stolons.

NathanP October 5, 2013 03:51 PM

Here is one I took earlier today. This is a non commercial potato called Papa chonca. This is the first year I have grown it and this is the first of the 3 plants I have that I am harvesting. The others will wait until after a frost. I am told it is a near perennial due to the huge numbers of tubers (mostly small).

If you look at this picture, the top yellow line was the soil level at harvest. The middle yellow line is the height of the buried stem that has tubers growing on the stem. There are two mini tubers growing within the rectangle. Not on roots, not on stolons off the roots. The bottom yellow line is the original soil height before hilling. The middle rectangle also show another slightly further down the stem, but it is harder to see. The bottom rectangle shows minitubers growing on stolons that were below soil level.

I have not weighed the yield, but there were at least 45 tubers large enough to eat. I reburied anything smaller than a half inch to see if they come up again in the spring.

http://i41.tinypic.com/6yeatc.jpg

Here is a closeup of the tubers forming on the stem.


http://i39.tinypic.com/2mzbn7p.jpg

Here is a medium range shot


http://i41.tinypic.com/24ln3f4.jpg

And one last one showing about half the yield. I hadn't dug out half the plant but I forgot to take another one after I dug the rest of it out.
http://i41.tinypic.com/akbmvo.jpg

I also dug 7 Purple Peruvian fingerling plants today. I'll post this picture as well even though it isn't very clear, but there are tubers growing along the stolons on this one too.
http://i43.tinypic.com/30dh06t.jpg

And here's one I pulled off Facebook someone posted the other day of YEMA DE HUEVO. You can see the tubers forming and bulking up the length of the stolons. This makes total sense when you think about the fact that potato tubers are not really tubers at all, but are merely modified stems.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2nq6r2w.png

NathanP October 5, 2013 04:04 PM

I have made several mistakes this year trying the potato bin experiment that I will mention. I buried the stems too deep, too quickly and they rotted for both CIP396256 and Purple Peruvian. I have both plants grown in my garden as well as in the bin, so I can compare habit when I retry this in a bin next year. Based on the pictures above, I believe I will try CIP396256 and Papa chonca grown in bins next year.

I was able to reroot one of the Purple Peruvian potato plants in the top of the bin but am not sure what to expect when I dig it.

I started documenting my efforts in a thread over at this address

http://tatermater.★★★★★★★★★.com/thre...tato-bins-2013

tater mater. pro boards . com / thread / 946 / potato -bins -2013

I expect my link won't work so delete the spaces above for the web address.

Tom Wagner October 5, 2013 06:40 PM

Thanks, Wendy, for the contribution...and especially the following request....
Quote:

With all this above I wish it does not start another thread hijacking and that we focus on the pictures presented above and the main point of this thread. To share information about "Lateral branching, long stolons etc in potatoes".


I am using my moderator duties to make sure the topic is not hijacked and will delete any posts not directly related to the facts that we do have potato varieties not yet popularized that express great lateral branching...long stolons...etc., that support the research so poorly documented on the internet.

I like the use the Papa Chonca...derived from

Archipielago Los Chonos in Chile.....

as it is from the far south of Chile and not at all like varieties from Peru. It is a tuberosum level species and that is an important distinction from many of my lateral/long stolon diploids that exhibit those traits.

So many of my diploid lines don't show tall growth at all but just keep shooting up side branches far from the main stem. Some varieties just grow and grow like the near perennial Papa Chonca. I have had potato varieties spread over a twelve foot wide row with not underground branching but those also had long stolons so that the potato tubers would escape harvest since the tubers would be up to four feet away from the main stem.

I wish I spent more time with my potatoes this year but I hijacked myself to perform the hundreds and hundreds of tomato crosses to expand my research there. I did not make any potato crosses this year...so tightly linked was I to crossing tomatoes.

Looking at my better potato plots yesterday...I have far fewer berries than any year in the past 10 years in Washington.

NathanP October 5, 2013 07:08 PM

Papa Chonca in the location I dug this morning was approximately 2' high and a 3' diameter circle.

The two plants I have in my backyard were planted 30" apart, 18" from a fence. They two are now spread across 10.5', and 5.5' across. These two are only 18" high. Shorter but spreading further.

wmontanez October 7, 2013 05:32 PM

My Pleasure Tom. I am also eager to see shared information. Yema de Huevo potato like that setting tubers attached on the stem is something I've seen before in some of your TPS lines lines. I remember LaPan but of course failed to take pictures at the time.

@Nathan, excellent pictures.

wmontanez October 26, 2013 06:36 PM

I found some potatoes that has horizontal growth. Late varieties mostly.

More pictures

Variety-Mystery Red TPS
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--...2/IMG_0068.JPG

closer look
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B...2/IMG_0069.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H...2/IMG_0070.JPG

Variety-Red Ox
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-q...0/IMG_0073.JPG

Variety-Muru
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-i.../s640/Muru.JPG

Smaller potato forming high on the buried stem
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h...0/IMG_0078.JPG

Tom Wagner October 27, 2013 01:00 AM

I am planning on doing TPS research and development this winter in the greenhouse....not where I live though, and the lateral branching trait is something I am going to demonstrate with selected TPS and special treatment on behalf of potential sales of ready to plant TPS starts. I will likely take the proto-types to the field later in pots above the ground with drip watering devices. The soil media will be added to the growing highly branched seedlings a couple of times. The goal is to have dozens if not hundreds of small tubers througout the container.

NathanP December 9, 2013 07:37 AM

There is a potato grower/researcher in Zimbabwe that is discussing one of his plans for research is to show that stems that turn green do not produce tubers.

That makes some sense, and it will be interesting to see the results and documentation. If so, it means making sure the stem is buried before turning green is necessary, and that might be the most helpful piece of information to have when growing in bags. Looking back in the photos above, the tubers really have only formed on the stems when the stems are still brown.

Unless the stem color can change from green back to brown when buried under the soil?

Durgan December 10, 2013 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wagner (Post 379755)
I am planning on doing TPS research and development this winter in the greenhouse....not where I live though, and the lateral branching trait is something I am going to demonstrate with selected TPS and special treatment on behalf of potential sales of ready to plant TPS starts. I will likely take the proto-types to the field later in pots above the ground with drip watering devices. The soil media will be added to the growing highly branched seedlings a couple of times. The goal is to have dozens if not hundreds of small tubers througout the container.

Reminder. This is what thou are trying to dispute. In other words new tubers hanging all along the main stem.
http://www.durgan.org/URL/?QHBIN 21 August 2009 How a Potato Plant Grows

wmontanez December 14, 2013 04:52 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Here are more pictures of some potatoes left over in the basement since fall 2012, they are still trying to survive, but some show tubers along the stem at different lengths. Enjoy~

aletheia December 16, 2013 08:10 AM

I know this phenomenon regarding tuberosum types quite good.

Some of my phureja types go one step further. They produce doughter tubers without sprouting. Looks like a tick which sucks the old tuber. I kept some of these tubers for spring 2014. All other phureja types still started sprouting and I am not sure if they survive till the End of March. Maybe this doughter tubers will.

raindrops27 December 16, 2013 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durgan (Post 382778)
Reminder. This is what thou are trying to dispute. In other words new tubers hanging all along the main stem.
http://www.durgan.org/URL/?QHBIN 21 August 2009 How a Potato Plant Grows


Can I ask why the debate, clearly there are potato varieties that produce tubers along the stem. Probably just different varieties you never grew. I find your use of garden ingredients fascinating. I never would think of making "corn juice". I find, we can all learn from each other so let us learn about the lateral branching, and welcome it instead of taking the position to prove others wrong or right, life is way to short.

wmontanez December 16, 2013 11:20 PM

As a reminder,

Please let's not start another thread hijacking.

I will like that if can just focus presenting pictures about the the main point of this thread : "Lateral branching, long stolons etc in potatoes"

If someone want to contribute with pictorial evidence or personal experiences about that is most welcome!

If someone want to have a debate, let's open another thread for it...but of course w/o being rude to anyone~


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