What Would be the Ideal Micro?
 

I know there is no one answer to this question. What I am fishing for is a notion of which characteristics would have the most value in a micro-tomato plant. A plant that could be grown indoors, on a window sill, on a shelf under lights, in a greenhouse or sunroom, on a patio and brought indoors on cold nights, or just something that could be grown in a flower bed without crowding out everything around it.

For the sake of discussion, I am going to define ‘Micro’ as a plant that stays under 18” tall during a normal growing season. It could be determinate or indeterminate. It could be multiflora or normal. It could be ‘dwarf’-type with thick stems and rugose leaves or normal leafed. It may or may not require support. The only defining characteristic I’m using for calling it ‘Micro’ is height. Is 18" too tall?.

The reason I am asking these questions is that I am growing out a whole bunch of F2 crosses this winter selecting for micros. I don’t know what will manifest, but I’m hoping for a lot of variety and would like an idea of which characteristics to focus on. I‘m growing them 6”-8” wide pots from 1.5 quart to one gallon in capacity. What size of pot would work best in your situation if the right plant did well in it?

What are the most important characteristics? I know good flavor must be there. I have found most of the traditional micros I’ve grown to be lacking in flavor. But, what do you want them to taste like? Should they be sweet and ‘sungoldy’ for snacking on, or should they have ‘big tomato’ flavor? Can you even get ‘big tomato’ flavor from a micro? Is appearance and symmetry most important or productivity? (Yeah, both is best, which is most important?)

I could go through a bunch of other questions, but you get the idea. If these I’m growing work out the way I hope, by next spring I’ll have a bunch of F3s with different characteristics to ask folks to help grow out. I can only grow and save seed from so many, so what should I look for? What characteristics should I cull early and what should I save?

Now, a question for those pros out there who might know. At the F2 & F3 stage of segregation; which give me the best opportunity of finding a segregate with ideal growth habit, color and flavor? If I find something with the right color/size/shape, but lacking in taste should I concentrate on F3s from that one looking for the flavor. Or, should I concentrate on one that has the right flavor but not the right color/size/shape? Which characteristics are the easiest to find and fix? Or is it a matter of going with either and counting on Lady Luck to do her thing?

Lots of questions there. Any input is appreciated.

I want a micro that is happy in a one-gallon container, doesn't exceed 18" in height and isn't too bushy. My pots sit on a windowsill, and I don't want them falling over. I tried several different varieties, most of which had very acidic flavour which I don't like. Some were too bushy or needed a lot of support.

In the end, I decided that Red Robin was the best variety for my requirements as they are quite early, tasty and productive.

Linda

I have grown Hahms Gelbe Topftomate in the past two year and it has stayed about 18' . It is a golden yellow cherry. It is also early bearing.

I think micros are so cute. I like everything about them except, so far for me the taste has always been quite dissapointing. Bland or sour or both. To me, unless they taste good, they are just a cute novelty to look at like a houseplant . Any chance of a black micro? Maybe the flavour would be better?
KarenO

I planted my HGT too early in the spring, and the plants got sick from the cold. I am going to try it again next spring. Aztec, aka Aztek, was my favorite microdwarf so far. It's a large yellow cherry. Taste is very good, as good as any other yellow cherry I have had.

[QUOTE=KarenO;597230]I think micros are so cute. I like everything about them except, so far for me the taste has always been quite dissapointing. Bland or sour or both. To me, unless they taste good, they are just a cute novelty to look at like a houseplant . Any chance of a black micro? Maybe the flavour would be better?
KarenO[/QUOTE]

I expect to have at least one good one, hopefully more. I grew two F3's this summer that were black, multiflora and only reached 12" in height outside. They came from a cross with Margaret Curtain. Both were PL and had large-cherry sized black fruits. One was good tasting - the other was really good tasting. I'm growing the F4s now. (If you have a place to grow some this winter, I could send you some F4 seeds to see how they do for you.)

I don't have a good feel for their productivity because deer got all the early fruit of everything this year. However, they blossomed extremely heavily before the deer got them. I put an electric fence around the garden and was able to get later fruit from most, but I can't evaluate earliness or productivity for anything.

I grew tiny tim in one gallon pots; however, the production was low. I counted about 45 tomatoes.

Best,

I'm hoping to acquire some micro seeds and start them after I get last season all cleaned up and organized for next year. I hope you don't mind a question :). Is there a special fertilizer regime for indoor micro tomatoes?

As to flavor /size / color, here are my thoughts without ever having grown a micro A good deep tomato flavor would be a priority for me as a first try. I have a table in front of the window so I am not limited in size. For productivity I'd like at least 4 tomatoes per week. Would I need a bushy tomato to achieve this productivity? A really tough skin or a mushy cherry would dissatisfy me and I think I might give up taking care of it.

- Lisa

I use Osmocote mixed into the media for all my potted plants.

I had Peardrops this year in a hanging basket, but it does not tumble, so it would be perfect for a "normal" pot also. It's only about 1 ft and produces small yellow eggs of a brilliant color, a pleasure to look at AND to eat! It will be back next year which happens rather seldom.

Don't confuse Peardrop[U]s[/U] and Peardro[U]p[/U] - Peardrop is a det. variety, but much larger, no micro variety.

How Tumbling Tom ?. it is bigger than HGT and cascades.

[QUOTE=greenthumbomaha;597247]I'm hoping to acquire some micro seeds and start them after I get last season all cleaned up and organized for next year. I hope you don't mind a question :). Is there a special fertilizer regime for indoor micro tomatoes?

As to flavor /size / color, here are my thoughts without ever having grown a micro A good deep tomato flavor would be a priority for me as a first try. I have a table in front of the window so I am not limited in size. For productivity I'd like at least 4 tomatoes per week. Would I need a bushy tomato to achieve this productivity? A really tough skin or a mushy cherry would dissatisfy me and I think I might give up taking care of it.

- Lisa[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;597280]I use Osmocote mixed into the media for all my potted plants.[/QUOTE]

What Cole said. I also use Osmocote mixed into the media. There have been a few of the really heavy producing multifloras that I felt needed additional fertilizer by the time I had picked a couple hundred fruits. They fruits started coming tiny and I credited it to running out of fuel.

dfollett, depending on how much help you are looking for, I'd be interested in growing out some of those F4 black micros. It looks like we are neighbors, I'm in Davis County.

[QUOTE=Gardeneer;597320]How Tumbling Tom ?. it is bigger than HGT and cascades.[/QUOTE]
Tumbling Tom, red and yellow are not micros. They are determinate cherries with a lax habit that makes them good in hanging baskets. Micros are genetic determinate dwarfs. Very small ones
KarenO

Red Robin for me :yes:

[QUOTE=braybright;597330]dfollett, depending on how much help you are looking for, I'd be interested in growing out some of those F4 black micros. It looks like we are neighbors, I'm in Davis County.[/QUOTE]

I drive through Davis County to and from work four days a week. If you intend to grow them this winter, I can meet you to give you some or PM me your address and I'll send them. I have enough to send some out to two or three folks, but I'd like to have them grown before spring so I can learn how they do in different conditions.

Good to know about the osmokote.
I'm starting a tray, 36 cell square, next week when i set up my winter micro greens. I've got GoldPearl, RedRobin, RemyRouge and Russian swirl. Starting maybe 6 seeds of each and growing out the smallest and strong...leaves room for more.

[QUOTE=dfollett;597244]I expect to have at least one good one, hopefully more. I grew two F3's this summer that were black, multiflora and only reached 12" in height outside. They came from a cross with Margaret Curtain. Both were PL and had large-cherry sized black fruits. One was good tasting - the other was really good tasting. I'm growing the F4s now. (If you have a place to grow some this winter, I could send you some F4 seeds to see how they do for you.)

I don't have a good feel for their productivity because deer got all the early fruit of everything this year. However, they blossomed extremely heavily before the deer got them. I put an electric fence around the garden and was able to get later fruit from most, but I can't evaluate earliness or productivity for anything.[/QUOTE]

that is a tempting offer... pm me your addy and we can do a trade or I can send a SASE
:)
Karen

Regarding Osmocote, there are many Osmocote products. The two that I see sold at stores are the 19-6-12 with a pink label and the 14-14-14 with a green label. I think the former is meant for plant starts that will be transplanted into a garden and the latter is best for container plants grown through fruiting stage.

My Hummert catalog has an Osmocote "mini-prill plus micros" product that looks neat, but they only sell it by the 50-lb bag, so I have never tried it. My pepper plants and micro toms seem to be fine with just the 14-14-14. For larger plants, an occasional watering with a light miracle-grow type of fertilizer would supplement micros.

This is the one i have in the garden shed...

Yes, Red Robin is nice, but needs some support.. at least for me.
A similar growth habit, but better tasting, is the one called Mohamed. Sweet as candy!

I think I would probably have need for two different kinds of micro multis. For the type growing outside during the Spring through fall seasons, and one for indoor growing during cold weather. The outdoor 1 would need to be very bushy but not so much that it would need pruning, and most important qualities would be good flavor and high production. The inside version I'm not sure what qualities I would prefer but I hope to find out this year.

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;597351]Regarding Osmocote, there are many Osmocote products. The two that I see sold at stores are the 19-6-12 with a pink label and the 14-14-14 with a green label. I think the former is meant for plant starts that will be transplanted into a garden and the latter is best for container plants grown through fruiting stage.

My Hummert catalog has an Osmocote "mini-prill plus micros" product that looks neat, but they only sell it by the 50-lb bag, so I have never tried it. My pepper plants and micro toms seem to be fine with just the 14-14-14. For larger plants, an occasional watering with a light miracle-grow type of fertilizer would supplement micros.[/QUOTE]

I purchased "Osmocote Classic" (14-14-14) from a local Ag/Feed/Nursery supply place for $86 for 50 lb. That works out to $1.72/lb compared to $3.50-$5.00/lb at home depot. Needless to say, I haven't needed to purchase any for a while.:no:

I've grown several types of Red Robin and similar varieties. I've always come back to RR. I typically plant two in a 10" basket. Certainly not the best tomatoes, but very, very early and the best tasting (IMO) of the similar types. That said, I've never grown Micro Tom, so I want to try it this year. I did grow a similar variety "Florida Basket" IIRC.
-GG

One of 3 36cell trays i started Nov. 6th (daylight savings). Also microgreens in a rotation of trays started every Sunday, and a tray of dwarf sunflowers...

I've had about 90% germination rate.

I've culled about 50% over the three weeks...some sprinters and jump-the-gunners.
...and i see a few more non-PL.
Nothing too exciting yet but well under way. :D

I've been growing micros/very short dwarfs for a few years now. I want plants that fit neatly on a windowsill, so I want it to grow in a 1 gallon/8inch pot, stay 18inches or under, require no staking or at most a 1ft 3ring support, and taste "nice". The last part is of course subjective :))

So far, ones that I have grown that met all of those criteria and I would grow again are:
506 Dwarf Bush Early
Bajaja
Little Sun
Mega Bite / Megabyte
Red Profusion
Red Robin
Sweet N Neat Scarlet Improved


Ones that failed are:
Cherriettes of Fire - too fleshy but small
Heartbreaker Vita F1: Too sprawling
Micro Tom: Too sour
Orangenie: Unpleasant fruit prone to splitting
PickATom: Too sour and tough skin
Red Alert: Tasty but too tall for indoors
Romanian Red: Sprawls 2ft by 3ft and has tiny, mediocre fruit.
Sweet N Neat Cherry: Too sprawling
Sweet N Neat Yellow: Too sprawling
Tiny Tim - Major etiolation (3ft). OK flavour, very fleshy.
Totem: Too mealy and fleshy. And tall.
Venus - very sour

I've more types to try next year!

That is very interesting. I've never seen a PL dwarf/micro before. I've had the same quest for an ideal micro for at least ten years.. This year I will also try Mohamed and Aztek. Please let us know as your experiment unfolds!
GG

I have not grown Aztek yet, but have seeds for it, and will give it a try next year, hopefully.
It seems to be liked and recommended by several people here, so I'm curious.

While I'm thinking about micros and dwarfs, here's a plug for a few from Vegetalis (UK) These are all F1 varieties, AFAIK.

[url]www.http://vegetalis.com/[/url]

Sweet 'n Neat Scarlet Improved. Very similar to Red Robin, perhaps doesn't taste quite so sweet.

Tumbling Tom Junior Yellow. A more restrained version of the TT's. It didn't taste very good at the start of the season, but as the temps warmed up it got better. Hard to find.

Tumbling Tiger. Another restrained size variety. Red with green stripes. Pretty good flavor.

Red Profusion. A full-sized "tumbling" type plant that is very early and has 360 degree branching. Good taste, but not quite as good overall as the original Tumbling Tom Red IMO.

Tumbling Tom Red. The best of the bunch, I think. But later than most of the others at 70 days or so.

Also, Rejina (not Vegetalis) from Casey's Seeds. Another Red Robin, but to me has minimal differences.

-GG

Couldn't resist the temptation and planted a little group of your purple cherry PL micro F4 labelled 11X-F4-6-1.
happy to have them to enjoy their cuteness on my desk under a lamp for now. will have to move them when I pot them up but they are keeping me company while they are babies. Thank you for the seed, I will certainly let you know how they do and return seed to you of any that show the characteristics you want.
Karen