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-   -   Biofungicide options (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=51382)

dshreter March 21, 2022 12:37 PM

Biofungicide options
 
I previously used Natria Disease Control with QST 713. This was a replacement for Serenade with the same active ingredient.

Both products seems to be out of the market now. Is there a suitable replacement for these?

seaeagle March 21, 2022 01:20 PM

[QUOTE=dshreter;767395]I previously used Natria Disease Control with QST 713. This was a replacement for Serenade with the same active ingredient.

Both products seems to be out of the market now. Is there a suitable replacement for these?[/QUOTE]


This appears to be the same product





[URL]https://www.amazon.com/Disease-Microbial-Fungicide-Bactericide-NOP-approved/dp/B00DWFFMXK/ref=dp_prsubs_2?pd_rd_i=B00DWFFMXK&psc=1[/URL]

dshreter March 21, 2022 05:41 PM

Thanks! That’s a lot more than I need but maybe my best option

seaeagle March 21, 2022 07:36 PM

[QUOTE=dshreter;767406]Thanks! That’s a lot more than I need but maybe my best option[/QUOTE]


You are welcome, says it has a shelf life of 3 years if that helps. It may have been replaced with something because I kept seeing another active ingredient in all the other organic fungicides


[URL]https://bioworksinc.com/wp-content/uploads/products/shared/product-shelf-life.pdf[/URL]

paradajky March 22, 2022 11:54 AM

Some otc probiotics contain bacillus subtilis. I realize they may be different strains, but I wonder if they could actually work.. certainly be a lot cheaper than buying a gallon concentrate for those who only have a few plants to work with.

RayR March 22, 2022 07:05 PM

Anybody see this one? This one is on the shelf at the local Walmart this year for $19.97.

[B]ARBER Biofungicide[/B]

Control challenging diseases longer with our natural bio fungicide. Protects against fungus, mold, mildew, and rot using Mother Nature’s good bacteria. Say goodbye to disease on your leaves and in your soil and hello to stronger plants.

Disease protection for both indoor and outdoor gardening
Use On: Vegetables, roses, fruits, berries, nuts, flowers, foliage houseplants, ornamental trees, and shrubs
Controls and Suppresses: Grey and white molds, downy mildews, black spots on roses, leaf spots, root rot, botrytis, and more

Arber's Bio Fungicide is made from a unique strain of bacteria originally discovered in a rice field in Northern California. We grow and concentrate two major groups of natural compounds to make a powerful combination that stops germinating plant disease spores. Our good bacteria grows over the surface of leaves and roots, creating a protective shield that wards off bad bacterias and prevents disease from developing.

Active Ingredients:

Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain F727* cells and spent fermentation media: 96.4%
Other Ingredients: 3.6%
*Contains a minimum of 1x109 cfu/mL of product
Net Contents: 1 pint/ 16oz concentrate

For optimal results use in your regular watering cycle. Also ideal for: transplants, potting mixes, as a rooting compound or in hydroponics

Mix: 0.25 oz Arber concentrate with 32 oz water or 1 oz - 2.5 oz concentrate with 1 Gallon of water
Apply directly to soil or apply to leaves. One application every 10-14 days for wellness and every 5-7 days for major disease control.

[url]https://growarber.com/[/url]

DK2021 March 24, 2022 11:54 PM

[QUOTE=RayR;767423]Anybody see this one? This one is on the shelf at the local Walmart this year for $19.97.

[B]ARBER Biofungicide[/B]

Control challenging diseases longer with our natural bio fungicide. Protects against fungus, mold, mildew, and rot using Mother Nature’s good bacteria. Say goodbye to disease on your leaves and in your soil and hello to stronger plants.

Disease protection for both indoor and outdoor gardening
Use On: Vegetables, roses, fruits, berries, nuts, flowers, foliage houseplants, ornamental trees, and shrubs
Controls and Suppresses: Grey and white molds, downy mildews, black spots on roses, leaf spots, root rot, botrytis, and more

Arber's Bio Fungicide is made from a unique strain of bacteria originally discovered in a rice field in Northern California. We grow and concentrate two major groups of natural compounds to make a powerful combination that stops germinating plant disease spores. Our good bacteria grows over the surface of leaves and roots, creating a protective shield that wards off bad bacterias and prevents disease from developing.

Active Ingredients:

Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain F727* cells and spent fermentation media: 96.4%
Other Ingredients: 3.6%
*Contains a minimum of 1x109 cfu/mL of product
Net Contents: 1 pint/ 16oz concentrate

For optimal results use in your regular watering cycle. Also ideal for: transplants, potting mixes, as a rooting compound or in hydroponics

Mix: 0.25 oz Arber concentrate with 32 oz water or 1 oz - 2.5 oz concentrate with 1 Gallon of water
Apply directly to soil or apply to leaves. One application every 10-14 days for wellness and every 5-7 days for major disease control.

[url]https://growarber.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
Have no experience with any Arber product but this year in addition to regular neem spraying I am trying a different product that contains Bacillus amyloliquefaciens D747 to control cedar-apple rust on my apple trees.

cwavec April 1, 2022 10:44 PM

I've heard of Natria but never used it. My experience with Serenade was unsatisfactory,
i.e. it didn't work (at least according to the standards the manufacturer provided).


There seem to be a number of "new" and similar products on the market. Either they
are using a different strain of the bacillus or perhaps licensing from Bayer. I wouldn't
trust any of them if used as directed. And they all want to sell in gallons or more.
BTW I don't know who "Arber" is but I am sure their claims are grossly in excess of
what will actually happen with their product



However, there is an alternative in a product called Revitalize from Bonide. I used it
last year after my supply of Serenade ran out. Last I've looked, it is available
although last year getting any was hard because they couldn't find bottles to pack it in.


NOW. I'M going to tell you how to use this stuff and I hope you read carefully. I don't
mean to be short with anyone but the routine I have is very specific. It works if you follow
and may not if you don't. I had been in correspondence with a couple of others and
their results were about the same as mine, a situation that I interpret as nearly total
success. In other words, my plants survived and produced well for the entire season.


In addition to the Revitalize you will need to get some copper fungicide (10% copper
octanoate concentrate) Available as several brands but please read the label to
confirm that you have the correct concentration. You will also need a bottle of
spreader sticker. This is a combination of a surfactant and a resin that facilitates
the "spreading" and the "sticking" of watever other product you mix it with. Bonide
has a product called "Turbo" spreader sticker that works well except that it is very
expensive. Other products are available but you will have to research the contents.
Look for something containing alcohol ethoxylate and/or alkylphenol ethoxylate.
In spite of their ominous sounding names these are both just detergents. I believe
both Home Depot and Tractor Supply have a gallon of something for about $15.
I think they call it a "farm surfactant".



OK, here we go. Your first application. Getcher sprayer ready and clean and your
measuring spoons or syringes, etc.. For ONE gallon of final spray solution, add to water
ONE tablespoon of the copper octanoate and ONE tablespoon of the spreader-
sticker. Do not use more of either component. This quantity is the same as 1/2 of
a fluid ounce. Mix carefully and spray your plants with this preparation in good
weather. I generally spray this in the late afternoon if rain is not expected overnight
or in the morning if rain is not expected during the day. Your actual application of
the biofungicide comes after this one.


The next morning, if you sprayed in the afternoon, or later the same day, if you
sprayed in the morning, you can add an application of the biofungicide. Water
and your biofungicide are all you need at this step. Follow the manufacturer's
instruction for the amounts.


IF you have had good enough weather to make both applications, you should be good
for 7 to 10 days. Your plants will protect themselves by producing an immune reaction.
Repeat the routine at intervals of 7 to 10 days. After the first two times you should
be able to stay at 10 days or longer. Precipitation between scheduled sprays
should be no problem as it is the plant that will do the work by producing compounds
thar help immunize it.

cwavec April 2, 2022 11:13 AM

Doubt very much that it is the same "product". There are two main bacterial strains
in this market. These two are the same one, QST713. My memory is a bit short but
I believe this was (is) the same as in Serenade. (And Natria I suppose) This is made in Mexico, as was Serenade, just before it was discontinued. So there's a good chance it is made in the same facility. To my mind, however, in this field, the idea of "product" is defined more by what the seller's claims are than by the contents of the container. Bayer, in fact,
had differentiated the same preparation into several different "product" lines with
varying specifications. Through last year, although I don't know about this year, you
could still buy "Serenade", only it had to be in a 10 quart quantity and it was no
longer considered suitable for home garden use.


"Serenade" was originated by a company called Agraquest back in the 1990s and
sold to Bayer around, I believe 2013. This means that the patents are soon to
be expired , if not already so. And incidentally, a slew of similar (or identical)
products are now entering the market. So my guess is that either Bayer is squeezing
the last few drops of juice out of its lemon by licensing for a season or two or
possibly by controlling the sole manufacturing facility.


Not to quibble too much, though obviously I am, and considering the antics of
these companies, you can probably forget about ever knowing the true origin
or actual composition of your biofungicide.

DK2021 April 2, 2022 04:10 PM

The biofungicide I purchased is sold under the Southern Ag label (as "Garden Friendly Fungicide" and the label reads the same as the Bonide label, so it's possible that these are the same formulation.
I do also have copper octanoate and neem oil concentrate (both from Bonide) and I may combine the bacterial treatment with both. Neem also controls caterpillars, which might be necessary.

cwavec April 2, 2022 06:03 PM

Hello, good to hear from you.


Yes, Southern Ag has packaged and sold a product in this category for
a couple of years now.



My problem with these products is not that they are completely
ineffective but that the claims for them are generally excessive and
sometimes wildly so. Also that the instructions provided are not
generally helpful. And that none of them, except possibly Serenade
and Revitalize, is really new or innovative. Any of the newer ones
are nothing more than a re-packaging of something that has been
around since the late 90s. And often accompanied by some very
flowery language and a high price.



It appears that most of the beneficial properties have been achieved
in the lab and not in the field, so that when you are looking for some help
against a fungus infection you may be very disappointed.


The routine that I have detailed, though an accidental discovery, has
worked extremely well for me over two full seasons. Prior to using
this combination, I could expect my tomatoes to be severely infected
by late June (PA, zone 5b) and nearly dead by the end of July. I'm
talking about early blight here; perhaps I could have been more

explicit. With this combination, I am seeing virtually no signs of infection
until late August and full-bore production until a hard frost.


With regard to the material you have, I would probably go ahead and
use the Southern Ag stuff and, of course, the Cu octanoate. Whereas
neither of them has been fully effective in my garden, used together
as I have described, they have given an improvement that I consider
truly spectacular. And I would stick to the pattern as I have stated
since in my own mind it is "proven" although so far I am the only one
who knows that.


I see that you mention neem oil but am not sure how you would use it.
I guess there would be several ways.


My first step though, I consider essential because of the need for the
actual biofungicide to "colonize" the plant surfaces. It looks as if the
spreader-sticker in the first step may assist the bacillus in accomplishing
that. I don't fully understand why but that is what worked. I've searched
the research publications and though they talk a lot about "colonization",
I found no instance where anyone was able to demonstrate that
outside the lab. If you do this step, please be careful with your
chemicals. Copper can be phytotoxic and I did get some of that effect
at higher concentration. I've set my limit at 1 tablespoon per gallon of
water for that reason.


I hope this clarifies things a little but maybe not. If you have any questions
please ask.

DK2021 April 2, 2022 06:54 PM

Just to clarify, I am planning to use the B. amyloliquefaciens D747+ Cu octanoate + neem on my apple trees, as cedar-apple rust is a problem in my area and a couple of my trees are clearly quite susceptible to it. I probably really should replace them with a resistant variety, but I want to give this combination a try. Neem alone helps quite a bit with controlling the rust.


I have been fortunate to date in not having too much disease problems with my tomatoes; I prune fairly heavily and remove any leaf that looks like it might be starting some kind of disease, and I rotate where I plant solanaceous plants in my garden. Sometimes there is late blight but if that happens it's usually near the end of the season and I might just pull up that plant at that point. I have more problems with birds occasionally pecking at the fruit.

cwavec April 2, 2022 09:31 PM

Re: Your clarification.


Sounds like a plan. I have been at this for almost 20 years and am leaning strongly
in the direction of not trusting any one product or the claims of any manufacturer.
They are too often plain BS. Your combination looks workable.


I would caution though that you still need to separate the applications into two
parts. The weak spot here is a conflict between the bacillus and Cu octanoate.
I tried that back when the Serenade people were saying that you could mix
Serenade with copper products but, of course they didn't say which ones. The
application did no good at all. I believe the bacillus was simply killed in the
mix by the Cu octanoate. It is, after all - SOAP, and probably has an anti-bacterial
effect. That is one big reason why my method consists of two separate

applications. I'm not sure how you would work in the neem but I guess there is
a way. Maybe something similar with the bacillus in a spray by itself and the other
two components in another.


I would like very much to see your results. I've tried growing European plums here
but was defeated by the black knot fungus. Some combination of these things
might help.

dshreter August 15, 2022 05:50 PM

Great info that everyone has contributed here. I'm using up the last of my Natria Disease Control QST 713. Who knows what the shelf life is, but I fortunately haven't had issues this season.

One thing that is consistently true for all of these products is they work better at prevention than treatment. It's never a surprise if someone buys a fungicide because of an outbreak then are disappointed they can't reverse the situation. Instead, I think it is important that it becomes a part of your seasonal plan to keep the plants healthy just like potting up seedlings, pruning suckers, etc.

Next season I'll give Bonide Revitalize a shot and hope it can perform as well as QST 713 has for me.

MrsJustice September 3, 2022 09:08 PM

Hello Dshreter
I am an Organic Farmer but suffered some crop failure for the first time. I was thinking about getting my soil tested, that I do every 4 years. But for the first time I want to buy Organic Soil Products.

My Research on this Ideal stated with Serenade being Organic but it States that It cannot be soil in California. That gives me more Questions.

Is QSt 713 Organi?

If Serenade cannot be soil in California; Why is it listed for Organic Farming?


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