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Old February 15, 2013   #39
travis
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,984
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Allow me to explain a bit ...

The photo in the link provided by Mischka shows a tomato picked in 2011 off an F2 MoCross vine. Therefore the seeds taken from that F2 fruit are F3 seeds. I grew out those F3 seeds in 2012, selected individual vines from that grow-out, and saved the resulting F4 seeds according to selected plant and fruit characteristics. [After The Future, in Post #53, pointed out the error, I corrected the filial generations as shown above in red.]

The F3 seed taken from the 2011, F2 tomato was sold in 2012, and again this year, as MOX311S (MoCross, F3, 2011 production year, from a semi-indeterminate vine) ... that's what the coded designation indicates. As with the same batch of F3 seeds which I grew-out in 2012, I expect others to see what I saw ... a continuation of segregation and recombination of both semi-inderminate (a classification accepted by tomato breeders) and "semi-indeterminate" vines, a classifiction that I explain in a message in the link provided by Mischka.

If there is any question regarding what I mean by "semi-indeterminate," you may contact me at tomatohead48@hotmail.com, and I will be glad to discuss it further via email.

And yes, I have closely observed, recorded, and discussed the extent of hotset capability of MoCross generally, and specifically regarding the selected lines I have been working with since I made the original cross several years ago.

Speaking of the original cross, I made that cross using Mozark seeds I received from the University of Missouri, Columbia, from Dr. Trinklein. Mozark is a discontinued seed line from Mizzou. It was used to breed several hybrids that were popular in the late 1960s and 1970s, among them Avalanche (Mozark x Glamour), and MoCross Surprise (Mozark x Sioux).

The cross I made, and which I call MoCross, is the replication of MoCross Surprise, I just left off the "Surprise" half of the name, because I am not distributing the F1 seeds, only F2, F3, F4, etc.

I do retain several F1 seeds for future F2 seed production. I have distributed, and intend to continue distributing F2 MoCross seeds, whether for trade, for sale, or for free, so that others can grow them out and experience what I have enjoyed ... selecting the various expressions of vine growth habit, including determinate, semi-determinate, and semi-indeterminate, all of which have their individual characteristics, qualities, benefits, and uses. Again, if anyone is interested in details of what I just said, you may contact me at tomatohead48@hotmail.com for more discussion.

As to the fruit, I have never gotten anything from MoCross, regardless of the filial generation, including the F1, where the fruit was anything but, on average, baseball size, slightly flat-round tomatoes with slightly ruffled shoulders. Additionally, the tomatoes seldom crack or split, and the flavor is well above average, tending toward delicious, acid-leaning, slicer/canners.

I have photos of several generations beginning with the F1 to show what I am speaking about.

With regard to MoCross Elgin, it's fully determinate, and I expect it to remain fully stable for fully determinate, as it has show such for the past two grow-outs. MoCross Elgin is the result of F2 seeds I sent to Susan Anderson in Elgin, Texas. She grew the F2 seeds, and sent me back the determinate selection. I can check my records, but I think she sent me back seeds two times, but I cannot swear they were product of two separate growth seasons, so I will not claim they were anything beyond F3 seeds that Susan sent back. I grew them in 2012, and collected F4 seeds from the most productive single vine which put out 42 or 43 baseball size, red, crack free tomatoes pretty much ripening all at the same time.

Why do I claim hotset? Because for the past two years, all the MoCross vines from which I have saved seeds for distribution have set fruit in daytime temperatures from 93 to 98* Fahrenheit. I have recorded fruit set carefully, and kept records of the daytime temps in the 10 days preceeding confirmation of fruit set. I confirmed the fruit set with photographs of the tiny, green ova, and kept written records of my methods.

I take this hotset development very seriously, and don't make any claims frivolously or with the intent to deceive. In addition to Mozark x Sioux, I have made crosses of (Mozark x Sioux) x Neptune, (Mozark x Sioux) x Monte Verde, and Monte Verde x Neptune. I also maintain varieties and lines from NCSU, IFAS, and other sources in a private program to develop hotset and high beta carotene, high lycopene lines for future release.

I do not think anything I have said anywhere online, or anything that I have submitted in writing to be published as a description or explanation at the seed sales site that Mischka linked in his post is misleading as to the degree of stability of the seeds I have offered for trade, for sale, or for free.

If there is any misunderstanding by anyone, or if anyone feels that anything I have said or done is misleading or misrepresenting as to the stability or characteristics of the seeds or the plants resulting from the seeds that came from me, then please let me know by email, at tomatohead48@hotmail.com, and I will do all in my power to correct the misunderstanding or perceived misrepresentation.

I intend to continue with my private tomato crossing and selection. And whether or where the resulting germplasm is distributed, I intend to continue distributing it in unstable, intermediately stable, and fully stable condition. I feel what I am doing is worthy and that many people have enjoyed growing my seeds. What I am doing really is no different that what Tom Wagner is doing with the sales and distribution of his unstable lines of anthocyanin tomatoes. Lots of folks appreciate and are having fun growing his tomatoes, too.

So, I appreciate all your comments and suggestions, and do not take any to offence unless you clearly intend for me to do so. But I spent a lifetime in politics, so you will find it very hard to truly offend me, as I understand human nature pretty well. I hope you understand me and my intent.

Peace,

Bill Jeffers

Last edited by travis; February 16, 2013 at 09:31 AM.
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