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Old February 3, 2013   #15
carolyn137
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Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
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Originally Posted by bower View Post
Well, I can't pretend to have seen all the promotional material being discussed here, but I don't think there is really any risk of undermining the extraordinary products which are coming from serious breeders like yourself.

I had a look at this page, and it seems to me that the 'unfinished lines' are being marketed to a different market segment, not the gourmet market which you serious breeders are catering to. This seed seller is clearly targeting a 'sentimentality' niche market ("my own tomato"), as well as selling the experience of selection in a very scaled down way, to home gardeners who are not breeders but want a small taste of that experience. If the results are 'genetically unstable crap' as is anticipated, well that is the kind of taste of the experience that they'll get. I would expect that experience to foster a deeper awareness and appreciation for the work that goes into the awesome, stable lines that are being produced by professionals like yourselves, and ultimately benefit your business.

For the smaller percentage of customers that actually continue the growout to stabilize and name their own variety, yes, it may result in circulation of some mediocre named varieties that only a mother could love, but I doubt that many will end up on the market. If so, I wouldn't expect them to last long in the face of competition with really excellent varieties that have been produced and stabilized with due care.

Yes, we could end up with some very similar (or the same) varieties which have unique names. As long as the parentage is acknowledged, their sibling status will be obvious enough. From a genetic diversity perspective, that is really not a bad thing for the ol tomato genome. Subtle traits, such as tolerance of the different pest/disease profile or climate/soil conditions in specific locations, may end up represented in the 'sibling seed' bank as a result, which would be excluded when the same cross is fully stabilized for optimal performance in one breeder's location. So there is a possible up side to the development of this 'amateur breeder' market.

Sorry to play devil's advocate, but I'm not convinced that this is a bad thing (in itself) but, like most things, it can certainly be negative if there is misrepresentation involved.
Bower, you linked to Bill Jeffers crosses and I've know Bill for many many years. He's a talented not so amateur breeder and does it as a sideline and has an excellent full time job elsewhere.

Bill explains what do with his offerings, as in making selections, etc., as I recall, I didn't read the whole page b'c I've got to pack more tomato seeds and ge tthem out for my seed offer, and Bill also gives the full parentage so that if folks want to look those up and see what they are they can do so. Agreed that most probably won't have enough grasp of tomato genetics to predict what might ensue, but for those interested and have enough room to do the growouts, I think it's great.

I have three crosses in the Experimental Section of my seed offer and warn about having enough room to do growouts,etc. , but I know from past experiences that many do and some only put out one plant.

Bill was the one who did the NAR X Brandywine which ultimately becameDixiewine which I haven't grown yet but have the seeds and may do so this summer. Since I introduced NAR and at one time liked Brandywine I asked Bill for some F2 seeds and he sent them ASAP but I only did one growout and didn't pursue it since I was at my new place and didn't have the acreage that I used to have.

I admire what Bill has done, and what varieties he's working on now, and feel that he's being honest and straightout, no misrepresentation, with his offerings, as some aren't, as to parentage and unstable lines being offered.

Just my opinion having known Bill, for what, maybe 15 years at least.

Carolyn, who never has made a deliberate cross, but has dehybridized a few varieties to stability, and has had some amusing results appear, viz., three plants of Cherokee Green put out for seed stock and two had pure white lousy tasting fruits, and then the two somatic mutations that appeared,now those were fun.
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