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aclum · April 7, 2014

Hi Everyone,

Looks like Cole was right regarding herbicide damage. Got this from Scott this morning:
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Regarding the initial problem, I have heard back from my colleagues and we all agree that this looks to be a herbicide drift issue and not a virus. It is unlikely to be a virus because 1) viruses are not transferred thru seeds and 2) the timing of infection is off — there are simply few viruses that infect tomatoes floating around at this time. Furthermore, the second set of photos show to me to be early-onset Roundup drift symptoms developing, tho these symptoms can also be caused by some other herbicides in a similar chemical grouping that are commonly used for turf weed control. You should send me some pictures of the plants now to see if they are progressing as I would expect.
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I sent him more photos a bit later in the morning and here's his most recent reply:

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thanks for these new photos, which are much more clear than the others.

Now I’m not so confident that the culprit is Roundup, but I am confident you are dealing with a herbicide drift/contamination issue, and one of the ALS/Auxin class of herbicides. This could have come from a variety of sources: your own lawn or a neighbors, from weed and feed type of products, or a direct herbicide application to the lawn while the plants were still in the greenhouse or shortly after being moved outside. Or they could have picked it up from compost if you used city of Merced compost (the herbicides are in the clippings and bioaccumulate in the compost). There are lots of different ways these plants could have been exposed, but the symptoms, pattern, etc, match herbicide as the problem and not mites, disease, or light.
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I actually did fill my beds with county compost - but that was about 6 years ago with no new additions and no herbicide related problems in the past. BTW, his mention of "light" refers to me asking him if the blue swimming pool cover over the greenhouse might have affected things.

It is very likely that the gardeners might have used weed and feed on the lawn and also possible the city or another neighbor might have used something like roundup on the weeds growing in the alley between our yard and the yard across the alley.

While plants showing moderate signs of affliction became worse, the ones that weren't affected when I first noticed the problem have, for the most part, remained healthy. Scott also noted that the herbicide damaged plants were unlikely to recover or, even if they recovered, they'd have poor or no production to speak of.

So... based on Scott's comments as well as comments from posters, esp. on the stunting thread, I'll going to go ahead and replace all but about 6 of my original 40 plants with fresh transplants. Hum - just thought of something....

He'd told me that it was OK to replant in the same soil because roundup was a systemic and didn't affect the soil. BUT, if so then why would the city compost contain herbicide residue? I think another e-mail to Scott may be in order.

Anyway, that's where things stand right now. Will let you all know if I hear anything else. Thanks everyone who took an interest in the problem and posted responses!

Anne

P.S. Thanks for the link Steve, it does look like interesting reading.

April 7, 2014	#38
aclum Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Merced, CA Posts: 832	The Verdict is In! Hi Everyone, Looks like Cole was right regarding herbicide damage. Got this from Scott this morning: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Regarding the initial problem, I have heard back from my colleagues and we all agree that this looks to be a herbicide drift issue and not a virus. It is unlikely to be a virus because 1) viruses are not transferred thru seeds and 2) the timing of infection is off — there are simply few viruses that infect tomatoes floating around at this time. Furthermore, the second set of photos show to me to be early-onset Roundup drift symptoms developing, tho these symptoms can also be caused by some other herbicides in a similar chemical grouping that are commonly used for turf weed control. You should send me some pictures of the plants now to see if they are progressing as I would expect. ----------------------------------------------------------------- I sent him more photos a bit later in the morning and here's his most recent reply: ----------------------------------------------------------------- thanks for these new photos, which are much more clear than the others. Now I’m not so confident that the culprit is Roundup, but I am confident you are dealing with a herbicide drift/contamination issue, and one of the ALS/Auxin class of herbicides. This could have come from a variety of sources: your own lawn or a neighbors, from weed and feed type of products, or a direct herbicide application to the lawn while the plants were still in the greenhouse or shortly after being moved outside. Or they could have picked it up from compost if you used city of Merced compost (the herbicides are in the clippings and bioaccumulate in the compost). There are lots of different ways these plants could have been exposed, but the symptoms, pattern, etc, match herbicide as the problem and not mites, disease, or light. ------------------------------------------------------------ I actually did fill my beds with county compost - but that was about 6 years ago with no new additions and no herbicide related problems in the past. BTW, his mention of "light" refers to me asking him if the blue swimming pool cover over the greenhouse might have affected things. It is very likely that the gardeners might have used weed and feed on the lawn and also possible the city or another neighbor might have used something like roundup on the weeds growing in the alley between our yard and the yard across the alley. While plants showing moderate signs of affliction became worse, the ones that weren't affected when I first noticed the problem have, for the most part, remained healthy. Scott also noted that the herbicide damaged plants were unlikely to recover or, even if they recovered, they'd have poor or no production to speak of. So... based on Scott's comments as well as comments from posters, esp. on the stunting thread, I'll going to go ahead and replace all but about 6 of my original 40 plants with fresh transplants. Hum - just thought of something.... He'd told me that it was OK to replant in the same soil because roundup was a systemic and didn't affect the soil. BUT, if so then why would the city compost contain herbicide residue? I think another e-mail to Scott may be in order. Anyway, that's where things stand right now. Will let you all know if I hear anything else. Thanks everyone who took an interest in the problem and posted responses! Anne P.S. Thanks for the link Steve, it does look like interesting reading.