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Old July 2, 2015   #10
FLRedHeart
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Hi Steven,

Let me do an abstract of what you've accepted as an answer so I can be critical of Mr. White's answer which I don't believe for a second. White's reasoning sounds very silly in 2015, but was probably very bold and cutting edge in 1902 and would have been a great topic at the time.

My summary:
Mr. White wrote a book in which he described two alleged experiments he conducted without any controls on his seed source or proof of any kind the first time - he did not even save any seeds the first time although his result was earth-shattering to him.

He then goes on to claim he replicated the experiment a second time a year later, and got identical results, and he did save the seeds the second time.

His theory is that species spontaneously morph from one species to another during a period of "evolutionary heat", due to a substance in them (benefit of the doubt - call it a gene in modern terms). He got this theory because he is a tomato enthusiast and seed saver and read de Vries treatise on a type of "leapfrog evolution", a period of time when species decide it's morphing time, which he learned of the year after his first experiment.

So, the details of his experiment:
First time, plants 24 transplants, all regular leaf Acme, gets Acme fruits.
Saved seed, but only to grow 30 new plants the next season in his garden.
Claims the 30 new plants were each identical to each other but were potato leafed and stouter, and the fruit was different and good.
Saves absolutely no seeds from his original plants or the F2s.

Reads about the spontaneous creation of species by a leading evolutionist, de Vries, who argued for spontaneous new species being formed after a species has its run during a period of evolutionary heat the plants all somehow go into.

Buys unknown quantity of Acme seeds from a farm he says is 100 miles away.
Plants them and gets all normal, regular leaf Acme plants.
Saves seeds and starts next season producing 30 F2 plants from the second purchased seed.
Claims the 30 new plants were each identical to each other but were potato leafed and stouter, and the fruit was different and good, and identical to his original attempt which he saved no seeds from.

Goes on to claim a theory and take credit for naming new species:
1. Regular leaf plants are the original tomato species.
2. After X generations (25 years?), all of the Acme variety, regardless of whether they came from Washington or Philadelphia spontaneously mutated in this generation into a new species because they had potato leaves and were stout and it had nothing to do with his growing practices. (does not address why there was a 2 year difference in seed age though :-))
3. Says to keep the original species of tomato for the old Acme's but that the new one is not only a new variety, but also a new species. (Durn Potato leaves!)

Oh boy, more claims:
In its entirety, all F2 plants bred true to the new PL species variety.
4. Names the species L. potatoish or something like that, and names the variety "Washington" (hey, Washington was the first president of a new country, get it?)
5. Also names another leaf type while he's at it as another new species, arguing, if a botanist found these in the wild they would call them different species even though there is some overlap in the fruit forms.


Wow!

OK we read the conclusion that after 25 (or so) generations Acme leapfrogs into a new species, and by the way it is potato leaf (LOL - do you see the problem with having all of them PL?).

Our modern understanding of genetics would say after 25 generations, Acme would be so fixed you could set your clock by it, not the other way around as White argues. Whether the farmers he is buying this from are isolating them from cross breeding is another question entirely, but he never even bought seed from Livingston! What sort of control is that?

I would explain the incident as follows. Mr. White got some crossed seed. A minority of plants produces an F2 PL version. He saved seed from the PL version intentionally or by accident, and made the rest fit the theory, and tried to take credit to name new tomato plant species within the genus, and varieties #1: Washington.

So he was unscientific or dishonest about his experiment. But he probably believed he was right, and he was probably as amazed an we are today to see the occurrence of PL varieties from similar accidents coming from regular leafed varieties as they genetically will do in F2, but not F1 (this is key).

The reference he gives being "more scientific" lol, apparently was written by him as well where he took off his turnip head and put his scientist head on. You said you found a third reference that is independent. That's interesting I agree, but does not support anything like this. The Livingston Company was a reputable company at the time, but with people saving seeds and selling the plants without taking good precautions, I wouldn't treat these "mutations" (in modern lingo they are only crosses) as anything more than the standard most popular tomato variety getting contaminated with other pollen by seed and plant savers/sellers, just like today. The way all varieties are eventually lost ...

Hope that helps, and I think it is very interesting, fun and educational to dig up these old accounts, but we really need to get into the mindset of who's writing them. The loss of Acme, if in fact it is lost, would be for the same reason as other varieties.They fall into disuse as newer, more sexy varieties were developed. Then they are relegated to a few motivated seed savers that dwindle and can be eventually lost into folklore. Perhaps Acme is out there: the good news. I hope Acme isn't lost and would like to grow it myself. I'm a great fan of the Livingston varieties as well and enjoyed the account you pulled up. It brings back memories in my protoplasts (sic?)somewhere :-) I think that was where White imagined the genetic regulation and ticking species morphing bomb was going on. In its time it was pretty sci-fi! Cool!
EDIT: Another shortcoming of so many of Whites: He claims all his 'Washington' F3s bred true. That makes no sense for a cross, but he had no idea of the crosses parents to compare to, and his idea was different anyway: that it is a brand new pre-programmed species created that was latent in all Acme ... ludicrous idea today. Today we know that PL is recessive. He didn't have that clear yet. So the answer is that all of his observations were likely based on PL's and that he had no other separating criteria to study the unknown cross. Besides he was in love with the new species idea and was obviously writing his account to fit it. Today he would be called out for fraud. Then, it was probably common. There was no peer review that I can see done on him. PL is an easy trait, but looking at similar fruits, he said his criteria were they all tasted good but were a little different from Acme :-)

Last edited by FLRedHeart; July 2, 2015 at 02:09 AM. Reason: Forgot to add the claimed F2 stability based on incomplete understanding of recessive traits
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