preparing my area for container gardening

[Rockporter]

Hi all, I have moved to a house and have the space for a garden now. All growing will be in my Earthboxes and SWC's but I don't know how to prepare the ground area these containers will be placed on. In the past my containers were all on concrete so there were no issues with weeds, grass, or bugs coming from the soil directly below my containers.

I need to prepare an area that looks to have been previously setup for an above ground pool. It is flat and square, about 15 by 15 foot although I haven't measured it. There is lots of grass and weeds in the soil there and I want to use landscaping cloth in the area.

What do I use to kill all that grass and weeds in this area without causing too much damage to the areas around it? Basically, how do I prepare this area for landscaping cloth and have less chance of weeds growing up through it.

Because we moved I have lots of leftover boxes I know I can use to smother the weeds, but will it be enough?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[greentiger87]

The boxes will work if you cover them with landscape cloth and then mulch/gravel on top of that. That's pretty much the first step of "lasagna" gardening. You could also just use a big sheet of plywood or OSB.

Glyphosate or "high concentration vinegar + soap + vegetable oil + essential oil of your choice" can burn out what's there, but it won't stop seeds from emerging. Corn gluten meal, diligently applied, can prevent re-emergence.

I hate landscape cloth, personally. I'd probably use glyphosate and then get a bunch of decomposed granite delivered to hardscape the area.

[Rockporter]

Originally Posted by greentiger87

The boxes will work if you cover them with landscape cloth and then mulch/gravel on top of that. That's pretty much the first step of "lasagna" gardening. You could also just use a big sheet of plywood or OSB.

Glyphosate or "high concentration vinegar + soap + vegetable oil + essential oil of your choice" can burn out what's there, but it won't stop seeds from emerging. Corn gluten meal, diligently applied, can prevent re-emergence.

I hate landscape cloth, personally. I'd probably use glyphosate and then get a bunch of decomposed granite delivered to hardscape the area.

Thanks for the reply greentiger87, I have read alot of articles on setting up a garden space since this post and this is what I have decided to do. Please let me know what you think. Granite is not available here unless I want to pay top dollar for it. Caliche is available but I don't think I want to use it on the garden area. That stuff is terrible at leaving staining everywhere when it rains.

I have spoke to my husband and I think he agrees with me but it will be some time before it is all complete, we just have so many other things to do with the move but this is where we will begin. Maybe it is all that is needed.

The space is about 15' X 15' square and is encased with a 2x4 all the way around supporting it's soil structure. The soil is level with the top of the two by fours.

My husband will scalp the grass and clean up all leftover grass and weeds from the area.

Then he will add a 2" x 6" board to the top of the original frame that is there now and it will give a 6" minumum depth to work with.

We will then take all the huge amounts of packing paper we have and layer it on the scalped grass.

Then we will take all the boxes we have and layer them very thickly on top of the packing paper.

Then we will add the plywood to the top of the cardboard boxes that was removed from a ship shod wall we tore down in the garage .

Finally, we will add lots and lots of mulch on top of the layers of paper, boxes and plywood.

So, what do you think? Do you think this will work to help keep the grass from growing back or should I still add that layer of landscaping fabric and use something to kill the grass and weeds that are left over?

I thought I would use the same stuff nurseries use and can be walked upon. By the time all the layers of paper, cardboard and plywood go on I might have about 3 to 4 inches of mulch making me think it might be enough.

Adding that extra board will mean a step will have to built so I can step up into the garden area because my knee is hurt and big steps are hard for me at this time.

The extra board will also allow for structural support of the containers to help stop them from tipping in a high wind as well as maybe putting up some conduit or something else for climbers. I am really liking this garden area more and more as I look at it and plan it.

Whew, I hope you could follow all of that.

[greentiger87]

Lol.. I think all of that will definitely keep your problems to a minimum. The exception is at the edges, where you may get some persistent weeds poking their heads out.. I wouldn't worry too much about it. With your plan, landscape cloth would add very little additional help.

All you'd have to worry about is seeds that blow in from the outside, which should be very manageable. Over time the mulch will decompose though, so you will have to replace it regularly. Something inorganic (like pebbles, sand.. whatever you can get cheaply) would last longer.

Don't add corn gluten meal in this case, as it'll just hasten the decomposition of the mulches, and later on become fertilizer for dormant weed seeds.

Btw, it's worth checking your local habitat for humanity store or similar construction resale shops for very cheap paving stones, etc. Good luck!

[Rockporter]

Hehe, we have a major problem with weeds and grasses here in my area and you cannot get rid of them easily so I wanted to do as much as possible to really hit them where it hurts.

Funny you mention HFH, we are headed there when we go to town on Wednesday..unfortunately there are only two in my area and both are not very close to me.

I'm thinking if I do put the weedcloth down then add some rock or something instead of mulch it might give me a much better chance at keeping the weed seeds from germinating.

Thanks for your input.

[MikeInCypress]

Instead of landscape cloth go to Harbor Freight or Northern Tool Supply and get a cheap plastic tarp. It is more durable than landscape cloth.

MikeInCypress

[Rockporter]

Thanks MikeInCypress, I was thinking the same thing and I also found another product that would be fantastic to use if it isn't out of the ballpark in costs. Check this out, I bet this would win the war pretty good.

Biobarrier

http://www.biobarrier.com/weedcontrol.html

[greentiger87]

It works by leaching an herbicide into the soil (trifluralin). I'm not a weenie when it comes to synthetic chemicals (I'm a chemist)... but no thanks.

[Rockporter]

Ok, I think I have it designed as well as it can get, I have attached it in PDF.

I don't know the exact space between the rows but I believe it will be at least 3.5' which will allow plenty of room for air space in our hot humid area. I am using mostly Earthboxes and also 5 gallon bucket sip.

Although the PDF shows the patio cover very long and not too wide it is actually about 20' by 30' so I will have the opportunity to catch lots of rain water with it.

Please let me know what you think.


Edited to add an additional plan with offset rows to provide even more airflow.

[rockhound]

I think if the area is 15x15ft I would just cover it with a layer of 4 or better 6 mil black plastic. Scatter some mulch over that for appearance if you like. Pull it up and dispose of it in the winter.

[Rockporter]

Well the thought of using a tarp or plastic is completely out because I need this water to drain off when it rains. My patio has just flooded so bad from the rain that my earthboxes drain holes were under water and so were my homemade SIP's. We went to Lowe's and bought a water pump to get the water moving. I can only hope my container garden survives this water onslaught and who knows what was in it.

I don't know what the owner of this house was thinking when they built the patio cover and made that area flat and raised up next to the concrete patio(the one I was planning to use for my container garden) because they didn't put on any rain gutters and the rain just floods the patio. The water doesn't drain off and it was so bad I thought the water would come into the house through the door, it was literally about 1" or less from the threshold.

This means the 20' x 20' will be less in size if we can't figure out how to fix this water problem. Putting rain gutters on will be a chore because they connected the patio cover 2" x 8" roof support boards to the house taking away any ability to attach rain gutters.

Dumb, dumb, dumb, some people haven't got a clue when it comes to rain coming off a roof and the damage it can cause if you don't keep it flowing properly.

[Rockporter]

Yay, we got the landscape cloth in shipment yesterday and put it down. We opted to take the plywood off because it curled from the rains and I felt it would poke holes in the cloth. We still need to finish the westside but that isn't where the wind comes from. We can complete it this weekend.

We need to fold it under to secure it and there is about 6-8" of dirt in height to cover. We decided to put the pins straight into the side on this edge instead of down into the ground like the others and then we will frame all of the landscape cloth with 2x4's to hold it in place.

We get some pretty high winds here and it is only sand so we are preparing for the winds.

Now the only other decision I need to make is how many cinder blocks I need under my Earthboxes to keep them level and well supported. I had my containers on concrete with wheels under and cinder blocks around them to stop them from falling over in the wind. Now I don't think I will use the wheels on them and would like them to be taller so I have to bend over less. Any ideas? I know I need to keep them supported so they won't be knocked off the blocks in a high gust of wind too.

See the pics below, although Sandy our beloved dog is not in the pics, she has decided the new spot is perfect for relaxing upon. I can't wait to get out there and garden with her by my side.

[greentiger87]

Sorry to hear about your flooding issues. Is a french drain a possibility? They work incredibly for me.

You could use pounded rebar stakes for stability, they work really well. Ugly though.

I can't think of any better cheap option for raising up the SIP's than cinderblocks. I use benches made from pressure treated 1x6's, 2x4's, and 4x4's. I'd be worried that SIP's may end up too heavy for them though. I do use some gigantic pots, but they're all filled with lightweight pine bark media.

Edit: Oh wait, these are 5 gallon SIPs? That should be no problem for wooden benches.

[Rockporter]

Originally Posted by greentiger87

Sorry to hear about your flooding issues. Is a french drain a possibility? They work incredibly for me.

You could use pounded rebar stakes for stability, they work really well. Ugly though.

I can't think of any better cheap option for raising up the SIP's than cinderblocks. I use benches made from pressure treated 1x6's, 2x4's, and 4x4's. I'd be worried that SIP's may end up too heavy for them though. I do use some gigantic pots, but they're all filled with lightweight pine bark media.

Edit: Oh wait, these are 5 gallon SIPs? That should be no problem for wooden benches.

We are trying to figure out a french drain system that would be connected at the corner down the side of the house about the middle of the yard. This drain would then lead out to the front yard and then onto the stree from there after if soaks the front yard first.

I like the idea of the benches and have to talk my hubby into building something like it. I think at this point I am going to try to align most of my boxes on the outside edge so I can use the rebar to stabilize the boxes and all will be up on cinder blocks.

[Rockporter]

Wow, it's been such a long time since I posted this thread and my garden is nothing like originally planned, lol. We still don't have a french drain system in for the water issue but we do have some rain gutters on the backside since we took the patio cover down. This has helped tremendously with the water issue on the patio but I still can't just leave potted plants out there when it rains, there is still some water that piles up on the patio. My garden faces NW to SE because that is how the yard is situated and where I can get a full day of sun on the garden. No water barrels have ever been setup as of yet, although I keep pining to have them, I have nowhere to put them without causing other issues around the garden. I need what space there is around the garden to be open for hubby to mow.

The weed cloth has done well but it is surely needing some help on the edges where hubby has hit it with the weed wacker, so I need to do some patching out there. The weeds are to a minimum and definitely come up from the edges as well as anywhere a container sits where a seed can plant itself. Hence the reason I found this garden thread, I was looking for the type of weed cloth I had used, lol. Another discovery we made the other day was a tennis racket under the weed cloth. Must have been overgrown by weeds and wasn't seen when we put the paper and boxes down over them. Now that the soil feels really nice underfoot, we are feeling things that were lost in the sea of weeds. We aren't sure how to get that out so we just need to make sure we don't walk on it and cause damage to the weed cloth.

Hubby built two 3' x 8' raised beds for me with bottoms in them to place on the W side of the garden. I have another raised bed on the E side up on cinder blocks that is 4'x4' and 12" deep which now has an arched cattle panel trellis attached to it. I am using my earth boxes as regular planters because I just cannot physically take those boxes apart and refill them, etc with my arthritis. The bending down to them is also very difficult. They work just fine for regular planters, I have two cantaloupes each in two planters on the other side of the arched trellis and they should do very well there. They look great.

Then I have onions, leeks and chives in earth boxes as regular planters as well. I am no longer using my DIY SIP bucket containers, although I am using some 5 gallon buckets for flowers and herbs. I may still have a use for my cages built for the 5 gallon containers so those are not a waste. The wind is one of the reasons not to use my SIP buckets, securing them from the wind had been a nightmare.

We built an 8' tall by about 15' wide trellis on the NW side of the garden for trellising vine crops and supporting tomatoes from the wind. I have three 45 gallon oval containers in front of this trellis loaded with 2 tomato plants in each. We built a cover for both of the 3'x8' beds which will have permanent greenhouse plastic and even some shade cloth to help with the high sun of the day, especially in summer. We will have an ability to fully cover these beds for winter with roll up sides. I am working on the planning of that now.

Finally, I have numerous different sized containers and planters with herbs and flowers seeded in them. A lot of them have come up so I should be seeing a lot of pretty flowers and herbs in the next couple of months out there.

Wow, now on to finding the same weed cloth I bought from greenhouse megastore back then. I can't find the option to purchase according to linear feet instead of a huge roll I don't need.

And on a final note: Sandy our beloved dog was put to rest on October 31 of this same year we started this garden area. It's been sad not having her around.