Okeravine

[Worth1]

In my infinite stupidity I had room in the seed tray for just a few more varieties and there it was some seeds from 2007 I had saved of Okeravine.
You cant even Google this one and get anything.
The only thing that came up was a post or two from me here at Tomatoville.

This is a smallish plant with a medium sized orange tomato which if memory serves me means little wonder or some such thing.
I almost killed a women for trying to pluck the seed saving tomato from this plant about 5 years ago.
It is a good tomato to grow and am glad I found the seeds as I want to make sure this rare tomato stays around.

Well sort of rare.

Worth

[Worth1]

Ok I need some help here, I must have the spelling off or something.
I cant translate it.

[doublehelix]

This is why a "translation" instead of a "transliteration" is the proper way to transfer seeds internationally. A translated name will always translate back to the original language and have meaning. A transliterated name will only make sense to a person who speaks the original language and can never be translated back to the original. In other words, the word must be spoken to understand it and is meaningless in print or in this case, the Internet. It is also open to interpretation as to how to "spell" the transliteration and this leads to numerous spellings of the same item and much confusion.

The tomato in question has the transliterated name of "Okarovany", or "Ocharovanie", or "Okaraovanie", or "Ocharovyi", or "Ocharovanie", depending on which message board or source you want to view. Can you see why transliteration is not a good idea? We would not be having this conversation if this had been translated to the name "Charm". Until everyone in the world can read Arabic or Cyrillic, or Mandarin, transliterations will create confusion.

For the record, translation is the rule and transliteration is sort of frowned upon in the sciences and engineering. Transliteration is also never used in any international business or law unless of course there is no translation for the word or the word has become well known. I don't know of another hobby where this is done or why it has become the practice within the tomato growing hobby.

[travis]

Daggone discombobulation of colloquializations confutes me continually!

[Worth1]

That;s it "Charm" I swear it is I was at someones house and I just about bet that it what they said it was "Charm".

Thank you.
I know all about translation.
One little slip of the spelling or the way it is said can mean all the difference in what you get or if you get you tail whipped here in Texas.

Again Thank you

Worth

[maf]

The International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants, published by the International Society for Horticultural Science, clearly states that cultivar names for any type of plant should not be translated, but should instead be transliterated or transcribed. There are international standards that cover the transliteration of most languages and if these guidelines are adhered to misspelling of transliterations will be minimised.

There is a huge scope for error via interpretation in translations, and I guess this is why transliteration is the preferred method.

For marketing purposes the translated name can be used as a trade designation, but this is not the valid cultivar name, and if selling tomato seeds with a translated name it would be a common courtesy to also include the real (ie. transliterated) cultivar name so that people know what they are getting. For example: FIRST LOVE ('Pervaya Lyubov').

Here is a link to a pdf of The International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants:
http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf
See chapter VIII: Translation, Transliteration and Transcription, and in particular Article 32: Translation of Epithets.

[Fusion_power]

This idiosyncracy of utilizing grandiloquent histrionics is discountenancing us impecunious abecedarians.

DarJones








Translation: This habit of using big words is upsetting us poor beginners.

[clara]

Thanks, maf, for this useful link! Although knowing the Cyrillic alphabet, I had some difficulties in transcribing my newly acquired Ukrainian/Russian varieties to Latin letters. I didn't want to use a translated name (German or English) although I know some translations, but believe me: Some names produce a node in your tongue (and I'm afraid they are hard to remember!). clara

[Worth1]

So what about my tomato.

Worth

[Fusion_power]

Worth,

Eat them!

And say "Charmed" as you do!



DarJones

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Worth,

Eat them!

And say "Charmed" as you do!



DarJones

I just hope the seeds come up.

You never hear of this one much.

Worth

[maf]

Worth, yeah, sorry for the thread derail; just trying to point out there was an established basis for transliteration of cultivar names in the plant world, and that it was not confined to just tomatoes. By all means call your tomato "Charm", but please also include a transliteration of the Russian name if you trade or sell seeds.

Clara, I know what you mean about the tongue twisters, I never could pronounce Malakhitovaya Shkatulka, let alone spell it without looking it up!

[dice]

Tania's transliteration:
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Ocharovanie

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by dice

Tania's transliteration:
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Ocharovanie

Thanks Dice.

Worth

[Worth1]

For those that might care I looked at my seed tray this morning and to my delight one of the Okeravine seeds has germinated.
I was a little worried as they are from 2007 and wanted fresh seeds for it.
No soaking or anything and the critter sprouted in maybe 4 days, not bad.
I dont ferment seeds as of yet but may in the future.

All I do with the few seeds I save is rub the jell coat off in a large tea strainer rinse and set them out to dry.

I'm really lazy.

Worth