stronger stalks

[peppero]

can anyone recommend what you can amend the soil with in order to get stronger, thicker stalks on tomato and pepper plants? i would appreciate any recommendations. jon

[Doug9345]

Are you talking about seedlings or plants in the ground.

For seedlings more light, less temperature and don't over fertilize for the light you have. A fan may help.

If you have tomato plants that aren't in the ground yet that are to spindly, bury them up to the leaves when you transplant them even if you have to lay them sideways to do so. I've buried pepper plants deeper than they grew. I never dug them back up to see if they grew roods from the stem but the didn't die and the deeper burying at least kept them from being broken.

[ScottinAtlanta]

When I dug up my pepper plants a few weeks ago and washed off the root ball, I found a few roots growing out the stem above the root ball. I had planted them deep, and they did indeed put a few roots out. Not many, but a few.

[peppero]

Originally Posted by Doug9345

Are you talking about seedlings or plants in the ground.

For seedlings more light, less temperature and don't over fertilize for the light you have. A fan may help.

If you have tomato plants that aren't in the ground yet that are to spindly, bury them up to the leaves when you transplant them even if you have to lay them sideways to do so. I've buried pepper plants deeper than they grew. I never dug them back up to see if they grew roods from the stem but the didn't die and the deeper burying at least kept them from being broken.

doug thanks for your reply. i have nearly always done as per your suggestions but i hardly ever have anything but in my opinion spindly plants. i see pictures of some of the plants the members have it and it seems as if their stalks are more robust. i think it is something i am not providing for the soil that is the problem. thanks for taking the time to reply. jon

[peppero]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

When I dug up my pepper plants a few weeks ago and washed off the root ball, I found a few roots growing out the stem above the root ball. I had planted them deep, and they did indeed put a few roots out. Not many, but a few.

scott for many of my plants i too have noticied what you have described. i had some pepper plants that had tremendous root production and others in the same bed had a much smaller amount. some of them were adjacent to each other. beats me. jon

[KarenO]

Some varieties of tomatoes, particularily some heirloom varieties are naturally very wispy or droopy or soft stemmed and requiring much more support than other varieties which are naturally stronger/sturdier. This may be a factor, what varieties do you plant? Do you find the problem with all of your plants or some of them? Perhaps trying another variety or bush or determinate varieties instead of the taller and more unweildy indeterminates would help.
I agree with either deep or horizontal trench planting to provide a sturdy well rooted plant. even still, all indeterminate plants will require strong support in the form of stakes or large cages or even both.
Enjoy your gardening and happy holidays!
KO

[kilroyscarnival]

I tried something I had seen online, starting seeds in a tall cup with only a small amount, maybe 2" of soil. As the seedling grows, fast at first, I start adding more soil around the plant up to just below the cotyledon leaves. I found adding dried out soil mix worked best either using my fingers like sand art or a plastic spoon. Then I would moisten the soil. The tomato should start putting out roots all along the buried stem. I didn't do any the regular way to compare, but I only messed up two seedlings by not being careful enough before I got the knack of it. I am also burying them deep when transplanting. With peppers, not sure. I didn't do the same with them.

[ddsack]

The main cause of thin stringy stalks vs robust ones in the garden, is lack of enough hours of sunlight. My back garden which is surrounded by tall trees, gets fewer hours of full sunlight. In the early summer it gets 7-9 hours, but by fall, parts of it only get 4-5 hours due to the lower sun angle in the north. Many of the shadier garden tomatoes are taller, but more spindly than the same varieties in my front sunny garden. For seedlings, the same is true - I get mine out from under fluorescent lights as soon as I can into natural sunlight, even if I have to bring them in at night. And I use an oscillating fan on them while they are still in the house. Makes a big difference in thicker stems.

[TightenUp]

if you are talking about spindly stems during the first month or so of seed starting just keep the fluoro lights nice and close(like 1 or 2 inches away). at this stage you want higher kelvin lights which look almost blueish. also get a small desk fan. the addition of a small fan mimics wind and the plant slowly strengthens itself to void being knocked over.

what as far as lights and medium are you using for seed starting?

[peppero]

i appreciate all of you taking to time to offer suggestions. i am not a novice by any means(30+ years) and i definitely do not know everything but i have tried every suggestion offered here and have tried over 200 varities of tomatoes. i have most variations in terms of sunlight availability and duration and have a consistant result. the commonality among the results suggests to me that it is a soil condition. the one variety that produced thicker stalks was celebrity but the stalks were not outstanding. another thing that causes me to think it is something missing in the soil is that some years ago they were more robust plants. i have great soil that is deep and has a lot of organic material in it. i also plan to have a soil test to see if that will reveal something. thanks again for your responses. jon

[BigBrownDogHouse]

This was a shot of one of the monster stalks I had on the side of the house. Not sure how it got so big, I specialize in overcrowding.

[dice]

Probably potassium, or a relatively high nitrogen to potassium
ratio. You should check soil pH. As pH drops, potassium leaches
out of the root zone faster. High levels of magnesium can block
potassium absorption by the plant, too.

A soil test should tell you a lot.

Some potassium sources:
wood ash (raises pH)
sul-po-mag (K-mag is a brand name)
potassium sulfate

A chart of "nutrients in excess" and what they would reduce
plant uptake of:
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Soil pH and nutrient availability:
http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~blpprt/acid2.html

[peppero]

thanks dice for the references. i have read and downloaded for further reference. jon

[Redbaron]

Peppero,
Dice is right about the need of a soil test to be sure.

There is however a possible companion planting technique that may help.

Certain plants like carrots can aid tomatoes by simply having long deep tap roots. Ironically Tomatoes will stunt the carrots though. So this is a rare and little known companion plant for tomatoes. Most veggie companion plants are mutually beneficial, and one sided companions like carrots and tomatoes are seldom used together. This is also the problem with Rosemary. Rosemary grows great with tomatoes, they are mutually beneficial, and tomatoes planted with Rosemary are better able to absorb minerals the rosemary pulls from very deep. Some people even claim Rosemary makes the tomatoes taste better! The problem is that the primary companion to tomatoes is basil. Basil and rosemary fight and mutually stunt each other. So it is a dilemma. If you use rosemary as a companion to tomatoes you can't use basil. And basil is scientifically proven to increase tomato yields 20% or more.

Another possible one is purslane, which makes a nice living mulch and ground cover too. (tastes good too) I haven't personally tried purslane with tomatoes, but it is proven to promote stronger stalks and deeper roots with corn. And that I can personally attest works. I can also personally attest to the fact purslane helps peppers, but in peppers case I always assumed it was the micro climate benefit.

The books say dandelions also work with tomatoes for the same reason, (deep tap roots that facilitate tomatoes getting the trace minerals they need) . But that is another one I haven't tried. I guess I still can't help but think of dandelions as a weed!

And of course marigolds should always be planted with tomatoes no matter what other things you may try. I like the French dwarfs for this.

I know companion planting is somewhat confusing for most gardeners. It does take careful observation and years of experience because subtle variations can occur depending on your native soil, climate, typical pests, etc.... But once you get the knack of the technique, you probably won't want to ever plant mono crop rows ever again.

In summary you can try a little experiment next year if you like, just to see if it works at helping the problem.

Companion plant marigolds with all your tomatoes. Always do this.

Then on 1/2 of them try rosemary (and either purslane, or carrots optional). On the other 1/2 of them companion plant basil (and either purslane or carrots optional).

Peppers I do slightly different. They are a nightshade so anything that works for tomatoes can possibly work for peppers too. But unlike tomatoes, most peppers like a more humid micro climate. So they benefit even more from ground cover planted around them. I personally like to use cilantro, basil, marigolds purslane and even oregano. Be careful with oregano though. It can easily become a weed and try to take over your whole garden. Also peppers are shorter so any companions around them need trimmed so they don't shade them out. (I let some cilantro bolt and provide shade only because it has very lacy foliage when bolting)

PS OH and always keep brassicas (cabbage family) of any type well away from any tomatoes and peppers (or other nightshades)

Hope this all helps.

[Cole_Robbie]

I'm trying to think of why I've never seen companion planting used in commercial operations. Is it because the benefits are typically a reduction in insect pests, and a commercial farm will spray heavily anyway?