Going Organic

ErieDeare · April 24, 2013

I am again going organic after being away from it for 30 years allot has changed from than till now.

I am raising worms as compost and would like to know which is the best organic fertilizer out there, I have looked at Sea-Crop, Agriserum, Sea-90 and Organic Gem if you have thoughts or comments to make to these products please let me know about them. I am trying to do thing right.

Last Fall I put 3 CU.Yards of leaf compost on my garden and turned it under and this Spring tilled it up.

I would like to have the best garden I have ever had this year by going organic.

Yes I just had pulled a soil test and will not get it back for 3 weeks.

there are a lot of questions that I have to ask, so they will be coming, not all at once.

bughunter99 · April 24, 2013

Welcome! Here are my tips for you.

#1 You don't need to buy a lot of expensive "stuff" to garden organically.

#2 Not everything natural is chemical free. Items such as box store compost, free manure and straw can be very highly contaminated.

#3 If your soil has been hit with a lot of chemicals over the years, expect the first year to be rough as you rebuild it.

#4 The soil, it is the key. Very healthy soil leads to stronger plants that are less prone to disease and pests.

#5 Organic growers that do daily garden walk throughs will find stuff before it gets out of hand.

#6 You don't need organic stuff in a bottle to replace non-organic stuff in a bottle. Other things like row cover to prevent squash beetles. Inter-planting. Your own compost etc can do wonders.

#7 Start a compost pile, in addition to the worms. You'll want both as the worms will take awhile to get started and the compost...it is like gold.

#8. Its worth it. You will encounter many many many many many naysayers out there that will preach to you that stuff is not more nutritious or doesn't taste better or productivity is worse or its not reeeeeeeeeally organic because of x, y, z. Blow them off. YOU know that YOU are significantly improving the health of your soil, the nutritious value of your plants and your overall healthy by significantly decreasing your chemical exposures.

#9 Know that there are many of us out there that have been doing this a long time that will help you.

#10 Don't get discouraged if something not organic ends up in the garden. Going Organic'ish is still a great improvement.

#11 Box stores typically have little that is of organic value. Have fun scoping out local nurseries that may do better.

I use Neptunes Fish and Seaweed but others will weigh in with their favorites I'm sure. The leaf matter is an awesome start!

Stacy

COMPOSTER · April 24, 2013

Good for you Erie Deare!

Stacy, very well said. I couldn't agree more that the soil is the key. I would also add that working a compost pile is a truly fascinating experience. To watch it change from raw ingredients into a dark, rich soil like material is really cool. I have grown some terrific vegetable gardens with compost, pelleted chicken manure and lime. Nothing more. A compost pile will also significantly reduce the amount of materials your houshold sends to a landfill. I think one of the most important things that Stacy mentions is the daily walk, especially to hand pick bugs.

I am currently using my own compost made with a lot of sheep manure from a local farm that I trust, lime (which you may not need) and a product called North country organics Pro Gro 5-3-4.

tlintx · April 24, 2013

By the way, I think the bags labeled "organic" at Home Depot mean as opposed to "mineral", not "free from harmful chemicals".

As an "organic-ish" gardener who is trying to go more organic, less ish this year, I really appreciate the advice in this thread!

Tl

COMPOSTER · April 24, 2013

Unfortunately places like the Home Depot and the USDA have distorted the word organic to include some very interesting things. But that is another thread I'm sure.

Redbaron · April 24, 2013

Well you are raising worms. That's the best organic fert around. So besides that just mulch and maybe inoculate with beneficial bacteria and fungi. See what your soil test says...that may mean adding something..but we wont know for 3 weeks

RayR · April 25, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErieDeare

I am again going organic after being away from it for 30 years allot has changed from than till now.

I am raising worms as compost and would like to know which is the best organic fertilizer out there, I have looked at Sea-Crop, Agriserum, Sea-90 and Organic Gem if you have thoughts or comments to make to these products please let me know about them. I am trying to do thing right.

The only product there that is an actual fertilizer is Organic Gem, which is a fish hydrolysate. There are a lot of brands of fish hydrolysate on the market. Great fast acting liquid fertilizer for organic growing in addition to other organic nutrient inputs.

Agriserum is a bacterial soil inoculant although they don't exactly state what species are included from what I saw on there web site. Seems they are marketing more towards farm operators. There are lots of brands and types of soil inoculants out there that are better suited for the small scale grower. Highly recommended for restoring biological diversity, building up your soil structure, cycling nutrients and increasing disease resistance in your plants. You couldn't even get these 30 years ago for any amount of money, today they are commonplace and inexpensive.

Sea-Crop and Sea-90 are sea minerals, not fertilizers but a source of micro nutrients. Not something you would apply in any great quantity because of the sodium chloride content. Never used them myself, but others here are experimenting with them.

bughunter99 · April 25, 2013

This is good stuff. But is not cheap. Those of you that fish, save those heads and grind em up. Look at the value you are adding to your garden!

http://www.neptunesharvest.com/info-wholesalers.html.

habitat_gardener · April 26, 2013

I don't know about "best," but what I use is my own homemade compost, a handful of alfalfa pellets in the bottom of the hole when I plant my tomatoes, a tablespoon of a humic acid product, and occasionally water with some liquid seaweed (capful in a gallon of water) or homemade nettle tea or comfrey tea.

And mulch!

For new garden sites, I've used free coffee grounds as well as lots of compost.

Fusion_power · April 26, 2013

Just because it is organic does NOT mean it is good for plants!

Heresy? nope. Reality!

There are a lot of gotchas to growing plants. One of them is understanding diseases and what spreads them. You might be making a best effort to put homemade leaf compost on your garden, but in the process be spreading disease spores that will demolish your tomatoes. As noted above, there is a lot of "organic" compost that hit the market the last few years but was contaminated with persistent herbicides. That huge load of chipped tree prunings you get for free from the guys pruning beneath the power lines might look like gold in your eyes, but if you put it on your soil, it will absorb all the nitrogen and your plants will suffer severely.

Please keep in mind that "organic" also means using intelligence to provide an optimum environment for plants.

I am producing 20,000 tomato seedlings that are grown organically for a greenhouse tomato production operation. The only inputs I am allowing are peat moss, horticultural vermiculite, horticultural perlite, worm castings, and un-treated seed. The water source is local and chem free. I have a very expensive bag of organically certified guano to use for extra nitrogen.

DarJones

MileHighGuy · April 26, 2013

That compost some alfalfa meal, kelp meal.... or a few other items at about 14 cups a yard and you'll be singing without having to buy and "fertilizer"

Also, since you're going to be working with your compost.... adding minerals at the same time can be very advantageous.

http://www.remineralize.org

If you're making leaf compost that ruins your plants you're doing something wrong....

Compost is King!!! And the Earth Worm Castings that Fusion_power is using are the best finished compost that you can get.... unless they are made at a waste paper plant lol.

By the way Fusion_power.... solid seedling mix. Simple and probably works awesome, what kind of sphagnum Peat Moss do you prefer?

COMPOSTER · April 27, 2013

Last year I started to experiment with adding rock dust to my compost. I got the basalt dust, what the quarry refers to as "float" for free just for the asking. They were even kind enough to provide me with an analysis of its content. I was inspired to do this by the remineralize.org website because it semed to make good sense. This was the same quarry that provided the rock dust for the Florence Mass project that is on the web site. From the fair amount of studying I did on the subject before I tried it I learned that rock powders should stimulate biological activity in the soil, increase the nutrient density and improve the taste of my harvest. I did a controlled experiment with 2 Bloody Butcher Tomato plants in 5 gal containers last year but could not discern any difference in the plants or tomatoes. Anybody else have any experience to share?

Glenn

dice · May 2, 2013

Some ancient (1930s) research from Germany found that compost
with rock dust added had around 30% higher earthworm populations
than the same compostable materials (agricultural waste, like corn
stalks, etc, in long windrows) with no added rock dust. The
experiment actually used granite dust, but I am guessing that
any kind of rock dust will help raise earthworm populations in
your compost, for basically the same reasons that worm farmers
add a shovel full of dirt to their worm bins.

(How much rock dust for how much compost? I no longer have
the agriculture text from the 1950s that I read that in, so your
guess is as good as any. I have been adding occasional handfuls
of greensand, dolomite lime, and gypsum to the worm bedding
in my worm bin, and the worms seem to thrive.)

COMPOSTER · May 2, 2013

I'm attempting to add about 30 lbs per 100 sq ft for now because I am limited in how much I can pick up in my vehicle. But I'm pretty sure I have read in several studies/articles that a 1lb per sq ft would be enough to remineralize most soils for ~10 years. I like the idea of this type of ammendment increasing my worm population. Lots of worms = healthy soil in my mind.

Glenn

Cole_Robbie · May 2, 2013

These days "organic" means whatever the government says it means. And they change their minds just a little bit every year.

Mined minerals are typically considered organic. Rock Phosphate has been around a long time as phosphorous for organic gardeners. Bat Guano is mined from petrified deposits that are hundreds of years old. And although it does not carry the organic label, I like Alaskan fish as a nitrogen source. Some people have been concerned about heavy metals in Alaskan Fish. They are there, but in very tiny amounts. Lead was tested at 3.5 ppm. The government's safety threshhold for lead in soil is 300 ppm; for household paint it's 600ppm.

May 2, 2013	#13
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Some ancient (1930s) research from Germany found that compost with rock dust added had around 30% higher earthworm populations than the same compostable materials (agricultural waste, like corn stalks, etc, in long windrows) with no added rock dust. The experiment actually used granite dust, but I am guessing that any kind of rock dust will help raise earthworm populations in your compost, for basically the same reasons that worm farmers add a shovel full of dirt to their worm bins. (How much rock dust for how much compost? I no longer have the agriculture text from the 1950s that I read that in, so your guess is as good as any. I have been adding occasional handfuls of greensand, dolomite lime, and gypsum to the worm bedding in my worm bin, and the worms seem to thrive.) __________________ -- alias

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April 24, 2013	#1
ErieDeare Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 33	Going Organic I am again going organic after being away from it for 30 years allot has changed from than till now. I am raising worms as compost and would like to know which is the best organic fertilizer out there, I have looked at Sea-Crop, Agriserum, Sea-90 and Organic Gem if you have thoughts or comments to make to these products please let me know about them. I am trying to do thing right. Last Fall I put 3 CU.Yards of leaf compost on my garden and turned it under and this Spring tilled it up. I would like to have the best garden I have ever had this year by going organic. Yes I just had pulled a soil test and will not get it back for 3 weeks. there are a lot of questions that I have to ask, so they will be coming, not all at once.

April 24, 2013	#2
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	Welcome! Welcome! Here are my tips for you. #1 You don't need to buy a lot of expensive "stuff" to garden organically. #2 Not everything natural is chemical free. Items such as box store compost, free manure and straw can be very highly contaminated. #3 If your soil has been hit with a lot of chemicals over the years, expect the first year to be rough as you rebuild it. #4 The soil, it is the key. Very healthy soil leads to stronger plants that are less prone to disease and pests. #5 Organic growers that do daily garden walk throughs will find stuff before it gets out of hand. #6 You don't need organic stuff in a bottle to replace non-organic stuff in a bottle. Other things like row cover to prevent squash beetles. Inter-planting. Your own compost etc can do wonders. #7 Start a compost pile, in addition to the worms. You'll want both as the worms will take awhile to get started and the compost...it is like gold. #8. Its worth it. You will encounter many many many many many naysayers out there that will preach to you that stuff is not more nutritious or doesn't taste better or productivity is worse or its not reeeeeeeeeally organic because of x, y, z. Blow them off. YOU know that YOU are significantly improving the health of your soil, the nutritious value of your plants and your overall healthy by significantly decreasing your chemical exposures. #9 Know that there are many of us out there that have been doing this a long time that will help you. #10 Don't get discouraged if something not organic ends up in the garden. Going Organic'ish is still a great improvement. #11 Box stores typically have little that is of organic value. Have fun scoping out local nurseries that may do better. I use Neptunes Fish and Seaweed but others will weigh in with their favorites I'm sure. The leaf matter is an awesome start! Stacy Last edited by bughunter99; April 25, 2013 at 03:40 PM.

April 24, 2013	#3
COMPOSTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 252	Good for you Erie Deare! Stacy, very well said. I couldn't agree more that the soil is the key. I would also add that working a compost pile is a truly fascinating experience. To watch it change from raw ingredients into a dark, rich soil like material is really cool. I have grown some terrific vegetable gardens with compost, pelleted chicken manure and lime. Nothing more. A compost pile will also significantly reduce the amount of materials your houshold sends to a landfill. I think one of the most important things that Stacy mentions is the daily walk, especially to hand pick bugs. I am currently using my own compost made with a lot of sheep manure from a local farm that I trust, lime (which you may not need) and a product called North country organics Pro Gro 5-3-4.

April 24, 2013	#4
tlintx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: SeTx Posts: 881	By the way, I think the bags labeled "organic" at Home Depot mean as opposed to "mineral", not "free from harmful chemicals". As an "organic-ish" gardener who is trying to go more organic, less ish this year, I really appreciate the advice in this thread! Tl

April 24, 2013	#6
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	Well you are raising worms. That's the best organic fert around. So besides that just mulch and maybe inoculate with beneficial bacteria and fungi. See what your soil test says...that may mean adding something..but we wont know for 3 weeks __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

April 25, 2013	#8
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	This is good stuff. But is not cheap. Those of you that fish, save those heads and grind em up. Look at the value you are adding to your garden! http://www.neptunesharvest.com/info-wholesalers.html.

April 26, 2013	#9
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	I don't know about "best," but what I use is my own homemade compost, a handful of alfalfa pellets in the bottom of the hole when I plant my tomatoes, a tablespoon of a humic acid product, and occasionally water with some liquid seaweed (capful in a gallon of water) or homemade nettle tea or comfrey tea. And mulch! For new garden sites, I've used free coffee grounds as well as lots of compost.

April 26, 2013	#10
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Just because it is organic does NOT mean it is good for plants! Heresy? nope. Reality! There are a lot of gotchas to growing plants. One of them is understanding diseases and what spreads them. You might be making a best effort to put homemade leaf compost on your garden, but in the process be spreading disease spores that will demolish your tomatoes. As noted above, there is a lot of "organic" compost that hit the market the last few years but was contaminated with persistent herbicides. That huge load of chipped tree prunings you get for free from the guys pruning beneath the power lines might look like gold in your eyes, but if you put it on your soil, it will absorb all the nitrogen and your plants will suffer severely. Please keep in mind that "organic" also means using intelligence to provide an optimum environment for plants. I am producing 20,000 tomato seedlings that are grown organically for a greenhouse tomato production operation. The only inputs I am allowing are peat moss, horticultural vermiculite, horticultural perlite, worm castings, and un-treated seed. The water source is local and chem free. I have a very expensive bag of organically certified guano to use for extra nitrogen. DarJones

April 26, 2013	#11
MileHighGuy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Montrose Posts: 52	That compost some alfalfa meal, kelp meal.... or a few other items at about 14 cups a yard and you'll be singing without having to buy and "fertilizer" Also, since you're going to be working with your compost.... adding minerals at the same time can be very advantageous. http://www.remineralize.org If you're making leaf compost that ruins your plants you're doing something wrong.... Compost is King!!! And the Earth Worm Castings that Fusion_power is using are the best finished compost that you can get.... unless they are made at a waste paper plant lol. By the way Fusion_power.... solid seedling mix. Simple and probably works awesome, what kind of sphagnum Peat Moss do you prefer?

April 27, 2013	#12
COMPOSTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 252	Last year I started to experiment with adding rock dust to my compost. I got the basalt dust, what the quarry refers to as "float" for free just for the asking. They were even kind enough to provide me with an analysis of its content. I was inspired to do this by the remineralize.org website because it semed to make good sense. This was the same quarry that provided the rock dust for the Florence Mass project that is on the web site. From the fair amount of studying I did on the subject before I tried it I learned that rock powders should stimulate biological activity in the soil, increase the nutrient density and improve the taste of my harvest. I did a controlled experiment with 2 Bloody Butcher Tomato plants in 5 gal containers last year but could not discern any difference in the plants or tomatoes. Anybody else have any experience to share? Glenn

May 2, 2013	#15
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	These days "organic" means whatever the government says it means. And they change their minds just a little bit every year. Mined minerals are typically considered organic. Rock Phosphate has been around a long time as phosphorous for organic gardeners. Bat Guano is mined from petrified deposits that are hundreds of years old. And although it does not carry the organic label, I like Alaskan fish as a nitrogen source. Some people have been concerned about heavy metals in Alaskan Fish. They are there, but in very tiny amounts. Lead was tested at 3.5 ppm. The government's safety threshhold for lead in soil is 300 ppm; for household paint it's 600ppm.