seed germination.

augiedog55 · December 2, 2012

Last summer i started buying seeds to start my own plants this spring. In august i started some seedlings to practice with to get the hang of it. I put the seeds i some pro mix bx i had and everything thing went great. When the seedling came up i put them under a 4 bulb shop light i bought at hd. When the seedlings got their first true leave i potted them up to 12 0z clear plastic cups . They flurished until i got rid of them in early oct. The plants were stocky and looked great.
Now fast forward to 3 weeks ago. I started 6 seeds i had to practice on for something to do this winter. I follwed the same proccedure as before. .I put the seeds in the pro mix bx watered them and put the small cup in a sandwhich bag and sealed it up and put the bag in my entertainment center on top of the comcast box for heat. Well 13 days later not one of the seeds came up. I scrapped that project and bought a heat matt from johnnies(hydrofarm heat mat for 31.$)and repeated the same process. I put 6 more seeds in the small cup and after 6 day on the heat matt next to my computer -0- seeds have came up. I used two different varities of seeds thinking i might have got some bad seeds and still neither batch came up. I can't figure this out unless i put to much promix on top of the seeds but i don't think i did..
I'm baffled and want to get this problem fixed before i start the seeds for the varitites i want this spring. I want all the bugs worked out

please HELP

afrance30 · December 2, 2012

There might be too much moisture. If the soil is too wet the seeds will rot before they have a chance to sprout. If you are starting them in soil and on a heating mat, get rid of the plastic bag and try it that way. Keep the soil moist not wet.

dice · December 3, 2012

Sprouting on folded-over coffee filters in plastic sandwich
bags (something I do with old seeds, with seeds that failed
to sprout in seed-starting mix in a flat in past years, and with
cultivars or crosses where I may only have a few seeds
total to work with), I only keep the baggie closed for the first
24 hours. After that I open it, leaving the coffee filter inside,
and I check the coffee filters every day to see if any of
the seeds have sprouted or if the coffee filter is drying out
and needs to be moistened again.

I also do not moisten them with just water. I mix in one part
drugstore hydrogen peroxide to 10 parts water, to kill off any
fungi or bacterial spores that sprout when they are first moistened.
(The hydrogen peroxide reacts rapidly with organic matter and
is probably gone by the second day.)

One thing many of us do when sprouting seeds in seed-starting
mix is loosely drape a piece of thin plastic wrap over the flat
after moistening them and leave it there until we see seedlings
coming up. That slows evaporation and reduces how often
one needs to remoisten the flats.

I seed pretty shallow, no more than a 1/4 inch deep. I have had
seeds take 6 weeks one year to sprout, then planted the whole
packet a few years later, expecting similar results, and 80% or
so came up in 5 days. (I had a lot of free Cougar Red seedlings
that year to give away, since I only needed two plants or so
to save fresh seeds from.)

clkeiper · December 3, 2012

Are you using grow lights? I always start my seeds with grow lights (at least 12 hours a day) and heat mats (until they germinate and I move them from the starting area) even in the greenhouse. I use plastic domes to keep the moisture in but do not keep the medium saturated. the peroxide is also and excellent additive to the water.

Hotwired · December 3, 2012

Columbine, Geranium, Impatiens, Lobelia, Nicotiana, Osteospermum, Petunias, and some varieties of lettuce all need light to germinate. Tomatoes and Peppers don't need light, though the heat from light certainly helps germination, so I use light. I also agree with Carolyn that domes are important. Domes let the water evaporate, condensing on the dome surface, then rains back down on the soil.

I have had exceptionally good luck starting seeds, though if you plant seeds from the same package at different times throughout the year, you will have different results. Germination times will vary significantly based on a multitude of factors.

Here's my techniques for starting seeds. It works for me....
http://www.hotwiredgardens.com/pdf/G...d_starting.pdf

augiedog55 · December 3, 2012

thank you all for your suggestions and help. one more question. what is the normal time from when you put the seed in your grow medium to when the seedling poke up throw the surface?

Tania · December 3, 2012

I am assuming we are talking about tomato seeds?

For me, it takes anywhere from 5 to 15 days for a seed to sprout.

The important factors are:

1. fresh high quality soiless mix is super important. I'd highlight 'fresh', as I had cases in the past when a bag with high quality mix was left opened for a few months and then it was no longer good for starting seedlings - everything rotted. The reason was the mix got contaminated with fungus and gnats.

2. good seeds that were properly stored in cool and dark place. Again, I had cases when I left packets of seeds in direct sunlight for a few days and all the seeds were no longer viable.

3. Correct moisture levels. Too wet is bad!!! 'Just moist' is good for seeds

Tania · December 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotwired

Here's my techniques for starting seeds. It works for me....
http://www.hotwiredgardens.com/pdf/G...d_starting.pdf

Very nice! Thank you for sharing.

Redbaron · December 3, 2012

I thought I might add a technique for the rare gardener that doesn't buy soiless mixes. This is an old old technique from years ago. I personally don't use it myself anymore, but I have done it, way back when I was a child and had a budget of basically a couple dollars in turned in pop bottles and aluminum cans. Back then potting soil and soiless mixes were certainly a luxury item.

Find a spot in your garden with the best best topsoil. Scrape off just the very best top layer into a deep cake pan. slice several potatoes in 1/2 and lay them cut side down on top of the soil. Leave the skins on and facing upward. Try to completely cover the whole top with potatoes. (you can also do it with extra thick potato peelings so you don't waste too much potatoes)

Put in the oven and bake the dirt at 350 for at least 30 minutes. Pull it out and throw away the peelings to the compost pile. Make newspaper cups filled with the dirt and plant your seeds just under the top ~1/4"

Works just about as good as soiless techniques, if you have good soil to start with. I used it when I was a kid 8-9-10yo...... and it worked, so it couldn't be all that hard.

Cole_Robbie · December 3, 2012

I have baked dirt before. My wife was less than pleased at the way her kitchen smelled.

What do the potatoes contribute to dirt baking? I had never heard of that addition.

Redbaron · December 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I have baked dirt before. My wife was less than pleased at the way her kitchen smelled.

What do the potatoes contribute to dirt baking? I had never heard of that addition.

I believe it is for keeping down the smell.

The potatoes absorb the smell and add steam. I was 8

I really didn't know what I was doing, just following instructions in my old timer cub scout merit badge booklet.

PS. Yes it still smells, but I don't remember it being too bad actually. Was a long time ago.

habitat_gardener · December 3, 2012

Soil that had come out of the soil sterilizer at the hort dept. smelled pretty bad. The purpose is to kill weed seeds and pathogens. It wasn't even actively baking; it was just residual odor of baked soil. I love the smell of good garden soil, but the smell of sterilized soil was not good at all.

clkeiper · December 3, 2012

Sterilizing soil has a distinctively odd odor. It doesn't smell anything like good garden soil, just as Habitat gardener says. When I was in hort school the entire wing reeked on the days we sterilized the soil.

augiedog55 · December 5, 2012

UPDATE I have life in one of my seed cups today. I planted some aussie seeds on saturday after writing this question. I came home from crappie fishing on truman lake today and i have one of the 6 seeds i planted coming up. I'm Hoping more seeds will be up tomarrow so i can put them under the lights

Sun City Linda · December 5, 2012

I always get excited when seeds pop their little hoops out of the dirt! Never gets old! I am glad they are starting to come up, I am sure more will follow. During summer high temps, I have had tomato seed pop in two days. During the winter, even with a heat mat, I have waited two weeks. Patience grasshopper....

December 2, 2012	#1
augiedog55 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: oak grove mo Posts: 406	seed germination. Last summer i started buying seeds to start my own plants this spring. In august i started some seedlings to practice with to get the hang of it. I put the seeds i some pro mix bx i had and everything thing went great. When the seedling came up i put them under a 4 bulb shop light i bought at hd. When the seedlings got their first true leave i potted them up to 12 0z clear plastic cups . They flurished until i got rid of them in early oct. The plants were stocky and looked great. Now fast forward to 3 weeks ago. I started 6 seeds i had to practice on for something to do this winter. I follwed the same proccedure as before. .I put the seeds in the pro mix bx watered them and put the small cup in a sandwhich bag and sealed it up and put the bag in my entertainment center on top of the comcast box for heat. Well 13 days later not one of the seeds came up. I scrapped that project and bought a heat matt from johnnies(hydrofarm heat mat for 31.$)and repeated the same process. I put 6 more seeds in the small cup and after 6 day on the heat matt next to my computer -0- seeds have came up. I used two different varities of seeds thinking i might have got some bad seeds and still neither batch came up. I can't figure this out unless i put to much promix on top of the seeds but i don't think i did.. I'm baffled and want to get this problem fixed before i start the seeds for the varitites i want this spring. I want all the bugs worked out please HELP Last edited by augiedog55; December 2, 2012 at 09:39 AM.

December 3, 2012	#3
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Sprouting on folded-over coffee filters in plastic sandwich bags (something I do with old seeds, with seeds that failed to sprout in seed-starting mix in a flat in past years, and with cultivars or crosses where I may only have a few seeds total to work with), I only keep the baggie closed for the first 24 hours. After that I open it, leaving the coffee filter inside, and I check the coffee filters every day to see if any of the seeds have sprouted or if the coffee filter is drying out and needs to be moistened again. I also do not moisten them with just water. I mix in one part drugstore hydrogen peroxide to 10 parts water, to kill off any fungi or bacterial spores that sprout when they are first moistened. (The hydrogen peroxide reacts rapidly with organic matter and is probably gone by the second day.) One thing many of us do when sprouting seeds in seed-starting mix is loosely drape a piece of thin plastic wrap over the flat after moistening them and leave it there until we see seedlings coming up. That slows evaporation and reduces how often one needs to remoisten the flats. I seed pretty shallow, no more than a 1/4 inch deep. I have had seeds take 6 weeks one year to sprout, then planted the whole packet a few years later, expecting similar results, and 80% or so came up in 5 days. (I had a lot of free Cougar Red seedlings that year to give away, since I only needed two plants or so to save fresh seeds from.) __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; December 4, 2012 at 04:20 AM. Reason: clarity

December 3, 2012	#4
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	Are you using grow lights? I always start my seeds with grow lights (at least 12 hours a day) and heat mats (until they germinate and I move them from the starting area) even in the greenhouse. I use plastic domes to keep the moisture in but do not keep the medium saturated. the peroxide is also and excellent additive to the water. __________________ carolyn k

December 3, 2012	#7
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	I am assuming we are talking about tomato seeds? For me, it takes anywhere from 5 to 15 days for a seed to sprout. The important factors are: 1. fresh high quality soiless mix is super important. I'd highlight 'fresh', as I had cases in the past when a bag with high quality mix was left opened for a few months and then it was no longer good for starting seedlings - everything rotted. The reason was the mix got contaminated with fungus and gnats. 2. good seeds that were properly stored in cool and dark place. Again, I had cases when I left packets of seeds in direct sunlight for a few days and all the seeds were no longer viable. 3. Correct moisture levels. Too wet is bad!!! 'Just moist' is good for seeds __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

December 3, 2012	#9
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	I thought I might add a technique for the rare gardener that doesn't buy soiless mixes. This is an old old technique from years ago. I personally don't use it myself anymore, but I have done it, way back when I was a child and had a budget of basically a couple dollars in turned in pop bottles and aluminum cans. Back then potting soil and soiless mixes were certainly a luxury item. Find a spot in your garden with the best best topsoil. Scrape off just the very best top layer into a deep cake pan. slice several potatoes in 1/2 and lay them cut side down on top of the soil. Leave the skins on and facing upward. Try to completely cover the whole top with potatoes. (you can also do it with extra thick potato peelings so you don't waste too much potatoes) Put in the oven and bake the dirt at 350 for at least 30 minutes. Pull it out and throw away the peelings to the compost pile. Make newspaper cups filled with the dirt and plant your seeds just under the top ~1/4" Works just about as good as soiless techniques, if you have good soil to start with. I used it when I was a kid 8-9-10yo...... and it worked, so it couldn't be all that hard. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

December 2, 2012	#2
afrance30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 212	There might be too much moisture. If the soil is too wet the seeds will rot before they have a chance to sprout. If you are starting them in soil and on a heating mat, get rid of the plastic bag and try it that way. Keep the soil moist not wet.

December 3, 2012	#5
Hotwired Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ithaca, NY - USDA 5b Posts: 241	Columbine, Geranium, Impatiens, Lobelia, Nicotiana, Osteospermum, Petunias, and some varieties of lettuce all need light to germinate. Tomatoes and Peppers don't need light, though the heat from light certainly helps germination, so I use light. I also agree with Carolyn that domes are important. Domes let the water evaporate, condensing on the dome surface, then rains back down on the soil. I have had exceptionally good luck starting seeds, though if you plant seeds from the same package at different times throughout the year, you will have different results. Germination times will vary significantly based on a multitude of factors. Here's my techniques for starting seeds. It works for me.... http://www.hotwiredgardens.com/pdf/G...d_starting.pdf

December 3, 2012	#10
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I have baked dirt before. My wife was less than pleased at the way her kitchen smelled. What do the potatoes contribute to dirt baking? I had never heard of that addition.

December 3, 2012	#12
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,540	Soil that had come out of the soil sterilizer at the hort dept. smelled pretty bad. The purpose is to kill weed seeds and pathogens. It wasn't even actively baking; it was just residual odor of baked soil. I love the smell of good garden soil, but the smell of sterilized soil was not good at all.

December 5, 2012	#14
augiedog55 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: oak grove mo Posts: 406	UPDATE I have life in one of my seed cups today. I planted some aussie seeds on saturday after writing this question. I came home from crappie fishing on truman lake today and i have one of the 6 seeds i planted coming up. I'm Hoping more seeds will be up tomarrow so i can put them under the lights

December 5, 2012	#15
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	I always get excited when seeds pop their little hoops out of the dirt! Never gets old! I am glad they are starting to come up, I am sure more will follow. During summer high temps, I have had tomato seed pop in two days. During the winter, even with a heat mat, I have waited two weeks. Patience grasshopper....