Heirloom Blackfoot Tomato Investigation

[Starlight]

I've been interested in the Blackfoot tomato for some time. Last year I sent Blackfoot seeds from three sources to JLJ_ and we both planned to grow it out, but it didn't work out for either of us last year, so we're trying it again this year.

For those who don't know, this is a large heirloom tomato, red (we think), originally described as beefsteak, but which growouts some years ago found to be more of an oxheart, and which produces for some a heart shape more defined than most oxhearts. However, some reported plants that produced beefsteak type fruit, at least some of the time. It appears to often have some fluting or ribbing, especially at the top.

Probably a late midseason fruiting tomato -- perhaps 80-85 days, but that may vary with location, weather and who-knows-what.

Probably wispy foliage, characteristic long cotyledons, probably regular leaf, but perhaps an atypical looking regular leaf -- and perhaps some potato leaf plants -- whether due to a cross or to something in the original line we don't know.

All the above is from reports of those who've grown it, especially around 2007 and shortly thereafter.

Particularly important, it was reported by some to have a great taste.

Our intention is to grow a number of plants from these sources and see if a clearly defined type emerges, or whether there is so much variation that crossing is suggested.

It has definitely been grown by families in Kentucky for some time, and may have native connections, best guess is that they are most likely also in the southeast. There's always the hope, though, that with more attention paid to the tomato, more definite information might emerge.

Many of these issues can be discussed more effectively as the season progresses, and more information is hopefully available, but as there has been some recent mention of it, we thought it might be good to start this thread now, and to encourage those interested in the tomato or who are growing the tomato to join in.

Hopefully, by the end of the season, we'll all have more information about this tomato . . . or at least we'll have more data-based questions.

For those who have grown Blackfoot, please feel free to share your thoughts and growing experiences.

[Starlight]

Here is a link to a thread I started last year. It shows a picture of the two types of leaves that developed.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ackfoot&page=2

[Runescape]

Reading the reviews on tomatobase, this sounds like a pretty neat variety. http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Blackfoot

Good luck w/ your grow, I hope you're able to post some pics when the time comes.

[carolyn137]

What happened to the very extensive discussions already present about Blackfoot in the following thread in the wanted forum starting at about post 28.?

There were several clarifying links that were put up,and an important one of mine as well.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=39605&page=2

Carolyn

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by Runescape

Reading the reviews on tomatobase, this sounds like a pretty neat variety. http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Blackfoot

Good luck w/ your grow, I hope you're able to post some pics when the time comes.

Thanks for the encouragement! We certainly plan to post pics and info if, er, *when* the plants thrive and produce something to see.

This thread is for anyone else who has grown Blackfoot, and wants to comment on it or post pics of it, too . . . and hopefully to encourage anyone who grows it occasionally, or has been planning to grow it, to consider doing so this year.

There have been so many good reports about Blackfoot, and indications of some characteristics that may be a little unusual . . . but also some indications of variation in its fruit form and production, and all these are scattered through so many forums, that it seemed that it would be useful to try to get some current information, as much as weather, wildlife and "whatever" permit.

And previous discussions of its history have perhaps not dealt with the most probable native connections, so we hope to eventually discuss that some too, in a positive way.

Ideally, the end result will be that many of us can work together to produce a useful, fairly comprehensive, picture of . . . not the all time champion super fantastic unique must-have-it tomato, but a nice, tasty, heirloom tomato that many would probably enjoy, and (hopefully) be able to spread some sound seed for it around enough to see that it has a good chance to be preserved for those who have interest in it.

[carolyn137]

And previous discussions of its history have perhaps not dealt with the most probable native connections, so we hope to eventually discuss that some too, in a positive way.

$$$$$$$

Possible, not probable IMO and memory native connections were discussed at length in the initial thread at Dave's Garden where Melody put up the thread.

I am still a member there and they still pay my memebrship dues each year since they went to paying members, but the site is now verydifferent,

I went back a couple of weeks ago and answered some questions,but so far not one answer.

And I have no idea whatsoever what the search function is like now,but I'll keep that in mind after I complete most of my to do list, priority going to getting my seed offer up and distributing seeds to my seed producers for growout this summer.

Carolyn

[JLJ_]

You're right, Carolyn, there was considerable discussion of Blackfoot origin in the Dave's garden thread, but it focused mostly on the northwest and on Arizona -- not the most likely region of origin for Blackfoot, I suspect. There was also some discussion of varied fruit form grown from the Blackfoot seed, though with all the info taken together, not as much variation as might appear from some threads. But that's why it seemed sensible to try growing out seeds from several sources and seeing what degree of consistency we find.

If you are hunting for old threads on any subject in some of those old forums, I've found that google or bing or duckduckgo are often more effective in locating information than the sites' own search systems. In searching for the traces of info on Blackfoot over the past year, I've used search engines, directed generally and toward specific sites, then followed up with forums' own search facilities and have collected everything I could find -- all the major threads, and portions of threads, I think, and even just mentions that Blackfoot was at some tomato fair or was on someone's posted grow list.

In my view, chasing tomato history is like chasing family history -- which I know you've also done. Much of what you really want isn't in any official records, so you use anecdotal accounts and those, while very valuable, have to always be evaluated with the knowledge that even the most sincere verbal accounts by participants in an event can change over the years. I've seen that demonstrated in my own family history, with accounts by members of my parents generation, compared to contemporary written accounts I had in letters to one another from my grandparent's generation. The stories were true, but had acquired some "decoration" in retelling over the years. Same thing happens with tomato family histories, I'm sure . . . but unfortunately very few tomatoes are good correspondents.

So I agree that info on Blackfoot's history is uncertain with respect to native connections -- but we have some interesting things that may "possibly" lead to the emergence of more info, if people look in more likely places than previous forum discussions have indicated.

One thing I think we need to all keep in mind whenever any tomato has reports of native connections of the "grown by the ___ people" type, is that that doesn't mean it was grown by that group for millennia. Personally, I doubt that tomatoes were grown in preColumbian times in much, if any, of northern and eastern North America. But the history of many heirloom tomatoes is more along the lines of "seed collected by ___ who got it from ___ who said they'd been told that this tomato had been grown by the ___ family since at least the early 20th century". A tomato can be an heirloom tomato of some tribal family in that sense -- and deserves to be taken as seriously . . . in that sense . . . as any other heirloom tomato.

But time enough to pursue all that. I'm hoping that we can mostly focus on getting some current data on actual plants and their fruit from as many locations as possible. If it turns out that Blackfoot seed mostly produces a consistent fruit that's as good as many have reported in earlier widespread growouts, then whatever degree of history we have for it is just sort of an enhancement to a tomato that's worth growing for its own sake . . . similar to the situation with some other reportedly-native-people-connected tomatoes.

[carolyn137]

Dear JLJ,I was just in the back room,my tomato room ,searching for varieties and guess what I found?

The original pack of Blackfoot seeds that Melody sent me,now a short term memory problem here,but I think 2008,possibly 09 and yes,still some seeds in that pack.

Carolyn

[Starlight]

I haven't forgotten about them Carolyn. I'll will get to them. I'll be hunting and finding them and posting them here on this thread. I was trying to decide if I should post links to all the threads, or just copy and post the sections typed pertaining to Blackfoot and who posted. I was thinking about an easy way of doing it, so folks would have to read through pages and pages of different subject matter.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Starlight

I haven't forgotten about them Carolyn. I'll will get to them. I'll be hunting and finding them and posting them here on this thread. I was trying to decide if I should post links to all the threads, or just copy and post the sections typed pertaining to Blackfoot and who posted. I was thinking about an easy way of doing it, so folks would have to read through pages and pages of different subject matter.

As it is you now have two threads running at two different Forums on the same subject.

Your choice, of course.

Carolyn

[Zenbaas]

Originally Posted by MissS

Is sounds like this would be a great time to have someone grow them out!

Been a while but growing out some Blackfoot seeds I got sent in a seed swop from '19.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[MrsJustice]

Please describe them a little more.

That sounds like a great Christmas Present, Amen!!!!

[Zenbaas]

Originally Posted by MrsJustice

Please describe them a little more.

That sounds like a great Christmas Present, Amen!!!!

At the moment they're only about 15cm tall. Leaves are RL and quite long and wispy.

If I can get the to fruiting I'll definitely share some nice fotos.

My garden just hasn't been a tomato happy place die the last 2 years due to every tomato disease attacking non stop. I haven't eaten a nice heirloom since early 2022

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[MrsJustice]

For the First Time, my Tomato Plants will be very large transplants, around 4 feet, starting my growing season for 2025.
I am praying that this will start off a successful growing season with this strange "Climate Changes that Gardeners and us Farmers are going through'.

[Zenbaas]

Originally Posted by MrsJustice

For the First Time, my Tomato Plants will be very large transplants, around 4 feet, starting my growing season for 2025.
I am praying that this will start off a successful growing season with this strange "Climate Changes that Gardeners and us Farmers are going through'.

4 feet transplants..? Wow are you planting them 3 feet deep🤣🤣🤣.

Some seedling photos attached.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk