Did Russian peasants eat tomatoes?

[habitat_gardener]

I was reading Tania's Tomatobase last night before going to sleep, so I must have dreamed of Russian tomatoes, because this morning while playing with compost I started wondering if my grandparents, who left Russia (near Minsk?) before 1917, ate tomatoes there. And if so, which ones? Or are most of the Russian varieties new(er) ones?

[Andrey_BY]

Yes, probably they did it, because Minsk region where I've been living for 20 years so far is a famous agricultural area and more than a half of all people here have got their own country houses (dacha) where we grow tomatoes and other vegetables for food and for selling at farmer markets every year.
Back in pre-1917 era there was a Russian Empire here, but the country your grandparents had left had also another name which is the same now - Belarus.
I was lucky to buy an old book dated in 1915 by the famous Belarusian (Russians called him Russian as well :-) agriculturist Mikhail Rytov who was the main keeper of vegetable collection of Agricultural Academy in small belarusian town Gorky near Russia. There are a lot of interesting info with pictures about gradening tips and popular varieites grown in Russian Empire before October Revoluton of 1917.
They mostly grew German, English, American and other foreign tomato varieties. The number of local varieties were quite limited because tomato were still no so Russian (and Belarusian as well) vegetable. Slavic people prefered to grow cabbage, onion, turnip and grains which they can grow without having greenhouses (a fairly very expensive thing for quite poor people).
These foreign tomato varieites were popular in 1915 in Russian Empire: King Humbert, Spark's Earliana, Koenig der fruehen, Koenigin der fruehen, Allerfruehester roter, Pomme rouge.
I believe you can still find and grow both King Humbert and Spark's Earliana now.
It'd be a very difficult to find a very old Russian tomato varieties now because in the Communist era (1917-1991) we had no tradition to save seeds and keep heirlooms. Everything had to be collective or owned by the State. In Soviet Union people had been working in collective farms (kolkhoz) where they grow vegetables not for their families in their gardens but for the whole country. These kolkhozes were supplied by seeds and machines by the State.
There was also no major tradition to breed and improve vegetable varieites by single gardeners. Since 1920s there were a growing amount of Agricultural Institutes and AES which have been doing this work.
And only in 1970s when more and more Soviet people got their own dachas from the State they started experiments with crosses of different varieties and re-enter the seed saving time like in pre-1917 Russian Impire era.
So as I said it much here, please, don't try to find many Russian (Soviet) heirlooms. We just don't have them. We have only commercial and non-commercial vegetable varieties. Probably you have better chances to find Russian heirlooms via old Russian emigrant families abroad.
Most of our people are still think that if they maintain the same vareity during more than 5 years there will a major loss of its yield, fruit size and sometimes even a taste. But I always try to teach them not to be like rednecks from the backwoods

[clara]

Andrey,
very interesting what you've told us here! I always thought that some varieties from Kazachstan were heirlooms; now I know better!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by clara

Andrey,
very interesting what you've told us here! I always thought that some varieties from Kazachstan were heirlooms; now I know better!

Clara, last season I grew two varieties from Reinhard Kraft, Ludmilla's Red PLum and Ludmilla's Pink Heart, that he Ided as coming from Kazachstan Germans and they didn't look anything like the more common commercial varieties from the CIS that I've grown. And I expect to be growing another one this summer. Bit I think he was implying that these were Kazachstan's that had moved to Germany and I don't know if the varieties they brought with them or acquired in Germany after moving there.

Andrey himself picked up a variety at a farmer's market in Minsk that he called Orange Minsk and to be honest it' s one of my new faves along with some others.

And I thank you as well Andrey, for what you wrote above, which was very interesting indeed.

[habitat_gardener]

Thank you, Andrey, very interesting.

Did the Agricultural Institutes and AES develop mostly open-pollinated varieties, or did they develop hybrids as well? And were most of the tomato varieties with Russian names developed by individual gardeners, or by Agricultural Institutes?

I will have to ask my aunt, who is 83, if she remembers anything about what her parents ate before they came to the U.S.

My mother and another aunt visited the Soviet Union in the 1970s and what I recall most from their stories is seeing people with armloads of flowers on Monday mornings, coming from their dachas. They had distant relatives there, so my mother also talked about walking (and walking and walking) to get to a dacha. Another aunt and uncle stayed in a village for 2 or 3 weeks.

[Andrey_BY]

Habitat gardener,
our Agricultural organisations are still quite poor and that's why it is still too expensive to them to develop and re-produce enough stock for hybrids. And I like this fact very much. We had missed the massive impact of hybrid industry even in 1970/80s, but now they breed only at least 40-50% of hybrids for industrial gardening and farmers which is fairly good for amateur gardeners who own dachas and still prefer OP varieties.
Before 1970s there were more than 80% of all Soviet vegetable varieties bred only by the State agricultural organisations. Later on more non-commercial vareities have been born in all parts of USSR including Siberia. And in 1980s we knew at least a thousand of non-commercial OP tomato varieties existed.
And yes, Carolyn, I like Orange Minsk as well very much, but don't call this variety a heirloom, because I don't know its history. In more than 50% of all cases I know this is just an old CV from some Soviet Institute or AES improved by a local gardener. And it should be really something extraordinary if somebody would like to keep the same variety for 20 years or more here. That's why I don't call a heirlooms most of local varieties in my seed collection but name then "non-commercial OP varieties". That's much more fair!
It's a good example about comming from dacha with armloads of flowers in Saturday evening or Monday morning. And for example, for September 1, a very special day for children at school starting a new school year more than a half of all bouquets are usually made from dacha's flowers (asters, gladiolusli etc.)

[Andrey_BY]

Clara, I believe most of these Kazakhstan imigrant varieties are re-named (in heirloom manner) versions of well-known Soviet commercial and non-commercial OP varieties. Reinhard's and M.Hartmann's huge seed collection give them a good marketing impact to be something very exotic abroad. And it is not surprise me that since they crossed Atlantic they become "heirlooms' in USA and Canada I should beware foreign gardeners of calling a heirloom any variety from former USSR if you feel it has an extraordinary flavor and some irregular shapes. You will get a very high chance to taste a simple improved commercial or common non-commercial OP variety from my area in this case

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Andrey_BY

Clara, I believe most of these Kazakhstan imigrant varieties are re-named (in heirloom manner) versions of well-known Soviet commercial and non-commercial OP varieties. Reinhard's and M.Hartmann's huge seed collection give them a good marketing impact to be something very exotic abroad. And it is not surprise me that since they crossed Atlantic they become "heirlooms' in USA and Canada I should beware foreign gardeners of calling a heirloom any variety from former USSR if you feel it has an extraordinary flavor and some irregular shapes. You will get a very high chance to taste a simple improved commercial or common non-commercial OP variety from my area in this case

Andrey, it really is quite confusing, isn't it.

If I ask Reinhard to contact Ludmilla, the German from Kazachstan and ask if her Ludmilla's Pink Heart and Ludmilla's Red Plum, and now Yellow Ludmilla were from Kazachstan and not from Germany after they moved there, are you suggesting that the tomato varieties grown in K were CV's and there were no heirloom varieties there at all?

I do hear what you're saying, I do, but with no background information about varieties, and my experience with the CIS CV's that I've grown it's hard for me to conclude that so many OP's are CV's and not heirlooms, again, based on fruit shape and color, but not exclusively.

There was a tradition of growing heirloom varieties in the former USSR but seldom do we see in the history of a variety that it originated with a single person as is often noted, for instance, in many of the SSE listings for other varieties.

Scott Hamilton in Germany sent me seeds for what he had named Anna Maria's Heart, for his wife, and clearly said that the origin of the variety was "Russia" but his wife's family had been growing it for years and years and apparently it was passed down in her family, so do I call it a German heirloom, do I call it originally a CIS CV, do I call it a non-CIS CV, or a CIS heirloom, or what?

[Andrey_BY]

Carolyn,
these tomato varieties from Kazakhstan can be anything you can imagine, because Kazakhs have been living those 74 Soviet years very close to all other native people in USSR. This Ludmila can buy seeds for these varieties in her local seed shop where there was a standard Soviet assortment of famous Soviet CVs from Moscow and St.Petersburg Institutes and best AES + from some non-commercial varieties like De Barao (with several colors) and Bytch'e Serdtse (Bull's Heart) + from local Kazakh Institutes and Aes. She (Ludmila) had a chance to get the seeds of these varieties from her relatives or gardening friends from Kazakhstan or from any Soviet Republic. You can think about any other history behind these varieties but who knows them for sure?!
And as for Anna Maria's Heart just call it OP variety from Germany with Russion origin since you don't know the originator and original Russian name of this variety

[lumierefrere]

Somewhat OT: (Move it to conversations? but Andrey was here and I wanted to get his attention)
Andrey, would you tell us the fascinating history of the Kulaks?
Since it had to do with farming, I'm sure others would be interested and I know so little about them.

[clara]

Something I'm thinking about: Katharina the Great (born as princess of Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg, now Germany), also known as Jekaterina Alexejewna, wanted foreigners to come to Russia. Therefore, in July 1763 she appealed to thousands of German farmers to come to Russia promisssing religious liberty, tax exemption and free land on both sides of the river Wolga. Those people later on were called "Wolgadeutsche". In 1941, after the German attack against the Soviet Union, they were forced to leave the Wolga region and were deported to other parts of the Soviet Union, amongst them Kasachstan. After all that I know life was very hard and poor for them and although being forced to work in kolkhozes, they tried to grow something for their own just to survive, because as Andrey said above, everything that was commercially produced in those kolkhozes was produced for the state. So don't you think that it might be possible that those poor people did save seeds just to have something for their survival? I don't remember the exact date, but due to a terrible dearth/famine at the end of the 1920th, even Stalin allowed people to grow something in very, very small places - and there, they produced a quarter of the complete production...

As to Manfred and Reinhard: I'm absolutely conviced that they don't "create" a history just for getting more chances to sell their seeds, no, no, no! You can't get their seeds in Germany if you don't know both - their seeds are NOT commercially available, in no shop! Only by email contact! Manfred sells at a really low price, just to cover his own costs. And what you buy in German shops are mostly hybrid varieties, about 20 - 25, that's all! Why are there NOT more good varieties? Because in Germany, every variety you can to buy in shops has to be licensed, and getting this license costs several hundred Euros for each variety!

That's why I'm very pleased about getting in contact to so many great tomato aficionados on this site - otherwise my garden would look very poor! And yes, I will grow Ludmilla's Red Plum and Ludmilla's Pink Heart due to a very appreciated member of this forum! Thank you again, Ami!
clara

[carolyn137]

And as for Anna Maria's Heart just call it OP variety from Germany with Russion origin since you don't know the originator and original Russian name of this variety

*****

That' exactly what I did Andrey, see page 310 in your 2008 Yearbook. The OP is implied since all varieties listed should be OP.

It was one of the 17 varieties that were left out of the 2009 Yearbook by mistake.

[carolyn137]

As to Manfred and Reinhard: I'm absolutely conviced that they don't "create" a history just for getting more chances to sell their seeds, no, no, no! You can't get their seeds in Germany if you don't know both - their seeds are NOT commercially available, in no shop! Only by email contact! Manfred sells at a really low price, just to cover his own costs.

****

I agree with you Clara. I've known Reinhard since maybe the early 90's and have been very impressed by his honesty and all else about him.

He does so much for those of us who are passionate about tomatoes in terms of his Photogallerie and finding new varieties, and growing lots and lots of varieties, and all this with a demanding day job as well.

Quite a few years ago in e-mailing him I told him that I was having trouble keeping up with fresh stock for lots of varieties and he offered to do that for me. I think I sent him close to 100 varieties and I have those written down somewhere.

And I was sure that you participated in my seed offer where I offered seeds of the two Ludmilla's plus his Ceman vareities to everyone but when I looked your 5 requests were for other varieties.

This past Fall I read an excellent biography of Catherine the Great and I do remember about the Germans being invited to "Russia" as well as the relocations to other areas.

Deep in my heart I alwys felt that I had some Russian blood in me, thinking that maybe that came from my Swedish background when they went to Russia. The other half of my maternal background goes back to Darmstadt and on the paternal side it's 100% English way back and it's from that background that I always wondered if my love of nature and gardening was b'c at some time in the distant past I was a Celtic herbalist/healer.

One never knows.

[velikipop]

Just a quick note on the kulaks. There is not much on them because their existence if there ever was one was short lived. The term 'kulak" is an invented deragatory term refering to rich peasant farmers. It means tight fist. It was used by the Bolsheviks and Stalin to launch a class war against Russian peasants as part of their ideological campaign to collectivize agriculture and bring all land under state control.

The origins of this group is often associated with Peter Stolypin who initiated land reform in 1909 that granted peasants greater control over their land. The aim of the reform was mainly political, to create a prosperous peasant class that would become loyal to the tsarist regime. Unfortunately the war of 1914-1918 never allowed these reforms to develop and the subsequent revolution and civil war virtually wiped out almost all of the so called kulaks.

Agriculture in Russia/Soviet Union, because of many factors has never been very efficient or productive so it is really amazing to see so many different varieties of tomatoes originating from there. The ones developed by the various institutes are understandable, given the role that the state played, but all the heirlooms saved in the different regions is remarkable. Perhaps it speaks to the ability of the peoples of the former Soviet Union to preserve a bit of their own world amidst enormous state intervention.

Andrey can probably add a bit more detail to the above.

Alex

[Andrey_BY]

Clara and Alex have said almost maximum about Russian Germans and Soviet kulaks.

Yekaterina the Great was a really clever and powerful woman. That idea with invitation of skilled farmers from her motherhood to Russia was magnificient in the same great manner as Peter the First done 50-70 years before her times. German farmers have added extra modern tips to old traditional Russian gardening techniques. They have taken many new and non-traditional vegetables to Russia and have adopted in Volga regions to increase our gardening flora very much.

As for kulaks I agree with what has been written by Alex with several addings. There was a major trend for Bolsheviks to call "a kulak" any peasant with his/her own house and garden on their own or rented land. If these individuals didn't want to give almost all they had to the State collective farms (kolkhoz) they considered as enemies of the State and should be punished (usually up to the death). There were millions of Soviet kulak families died under repressions of NKVD (early abbreviature of KGB) in 1917-1941. This cruel practice was especially actual in the most hunger years of Soviet agricultural policy in the end of 1920s - first part of 1930s. Millions of Soviet people have died those times especially in the traditional agricultural Soviet regions like Ukraine and in the South of Russia. Stalin's regime took almost all yield of grains and vegetables from these highly fruitful regions to feed other Soviet areas, but have no ideas how Ukrainians and peasants from Kuban, Rostov, Voronezh and Belgorod should have some meal for their own living.
My family was also involved in this awful tragedy of the whole USSR under Communist regime. My greatgrandfather (mother's grandfather) has been arrested in his native Ukrainian village (on the border with Moldova) and then executed by shooting just because he has collected several wheat seeds from the ground after a horse-powered vehicle with sacks of wheat and potatoes requisitioned from their village left his road. He was in need of some food for his 7 children. 4 of his children have died soon after this. My grandfather was lucky to survive and now we are still own his 100 y.o. traditional Ukrainian house made of clay in Vinnitsa region of Ukraine near the river Dnestr to the border with Moldova with highly rich soil, a big garden with 300 bushes of excellent grapes and a very clear water from the spring.

And I want to add that I appreciate much Reinhard's and Mannfred's hard work to maintain and distrubute on a very low cost their seeds. I have a very mutual relationships with Reinhard as well.