Chapman, a little more history.

amideutch · January 24, 2009

This was posted by Bill Jeffers (PV) at another forum and thought this would be a good place for it also. Ami

Brief notes on Chapman

Pretty much all that's given on Chapman is what you read in the SSE Yearbook ... you know ... large red beefsteak, regular leaf vine, mild to excellent flavor, somewhat split resistant, blah, blah, blah.

That and Carolyn Male got it from some dude named Richardson who didn't forward any other information about it, and now he's passed away. Oh, and that Tomato Growers Supply got their seed from Carolyn. Well, that's about it.

But I ran across a little blog article about it and decided to email the writer and ask whether her name for it (Chapman's Beefsteak) was more correct that just "Chapman," just who the heck Mr. or Mrs. Chapman is anyway, and if she happened to know how this dude Richardson came to have the seeds he listed in SSE Yearbook from whence Carolyn came by her seeds.

Here is the lady's response:

I re-read our web page and realized that it isn't clear at all - Aunt Laurette and Uncle Arthur's last name is Chapman. Sorry about the confusion - guess I'll have to do some editing there!

Chapman's Beefsteak is probably more descriptive than just Chapman, if that's what you mean by "correct". Is there some sort of protocol for naming tomato varieties?

I gave Mr. Richardson some Chapman's seed years ago, probably sometime in the mid 1980's. He had shared some heirloom tomato seeds with me through a seed swap in a gardening magazine (memory fails as to which magazine) and in return I sent him some of the Chapman seed (which Aunt Laurette had previously shared with me). He was an interesting and generous man! I remember that he had an amazing collection of tomatoes and truly awful handwriting! I was aware that, at some point, the Chapman tomato had appeared in the SSE yearbook, but didn't realize they had passed through Dr. Male's august hands!

It's interesting - our primary focus at Hummingbird Farm is now on clematis, although I did grow a LOT of heirloom tomatoes when our children were small and we were doing a lot of vegetable gardening. We still grow some in the greenhouse for ourselves and our customers, although not as many as I'd like. But I think that exposure to the terrific variety of sizes, shapes, colors and flavors available in tomatoes really opened my eyes to genetic diversity. "What! They're not all round and red you say!?!" And it's that same genetic diversity that appeals to me in clematis!

Best Regards,

Cindy

**carolyn137** · January 24, 2009

Ted, I said in the original Chapman thread that I was going to contact those folks but then was made aware that Bill had done so.

I still am not sure that I sent seeds for Chapman to Linda at TGS but I know I did send them to Glenn at Sandhill.

I felt a bit conflicted seeing Robert Richardson referred to as a "dude" since he was a British expat and a wonderful man as was his wife and daughter and interacted with many in the US and many in other countries re seeds, and was highly respected by all and was always so generous with his seeds.

The blog that's being referred to as I see it, was the one that was posted in the original Chapman thread here at Tville , unless someone lifted that and posted it elsewhere.

And I don't like being referred to as the "august" Dr. Carolyn Male when I've signed every post since I started posting in 1990 as Carolyn.

Of course I don't know what Bill wrote to them. And of course Bill can read here at Tville like anyone else since the gates were lifted to all a few weeks ago, as you know.

It's always nice to be able to fill in the history on any variety as the information that was posted here in the original thread indicated and added to by Bill's enquiry.

Since it was first listed as Chapman since Robert received it as Chapman and I received it from him as Chapman, and all others have listed it as Chapman in the Yearbooks as well as at seed sites, and not Chapman's Beefsteak, I'll continue to refer to it as Chapman, knowing it has a beefsteak shape.

What's new to me is the comment that seeds were given directly to Robert Richardson since the original blog/post said they were given to an "SSE" member. I was also a bit surprised that it was said the seeds were given to Richard in the mid-80's b'c knowing him he grew out everything new each year and he didn't list Chapman until 1994 when we co-listed it, my having gotten the seeds from him in 1993 as I also noted in the original Chapman thread.

Sometimes it's a good thing to have the older SSE Yearbooks for reference.

Whatever.

Ted, it just occurred to me that maybe you didn't see the original thread about Chapman in the Discussion Forum, not here in the Legacy Forum, so for anyone interested here's the original Chapman thread:

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10158

amideutch · January 25, 2009

Carolyn, "dude" is just a figure of speech and not meant to be derogatory. A man extremely fastidious in dress and manner, fellow, guy, from Websters. Ami

**carolyn137** · January 25, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Carolyn, "dude" is just a figure of speech and not meant to be derogatory. A man extremely fastidious in dress and manner, fellow, guy, from Websters. Ami

Ted, that may be the Webster's definition but where I grew up and even where I'm living now the word dude is derogatory.

And it had even a different meaning, also derogatory, in Colorado where I spent many years before moving back East.

But if we're going with the Webster definition the best adjectives I can pluck out of the ones given would be fastidious in manner since I have no idea how Robert dressed and fellow and guy just don't appeal to me as applied to him.

I guess personally I'd have preferred to see Robert referred to as Robert Richardson.

To me "dude" is a slang word and just didn't fit the man I knew as Robert Richardson, the very proper Brit who first taught me what bubble and squeak was.

Again, whatever.

ContainerTed · January 25, 2009

Many words have slightly different meanings in different communities. "Dude" today simply means a "male person" in common language. It is closely related to the word "Dudette". Both are used commonly everywhere I've been recently in a non-derogatory manner.

JMHO

The other Ted

OneoftheEarls · January 26, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMSSe7cOvA

dice · January 27, 2009

[off-topic dude exampes for Carolyn]

"Dude!" (The person so referred to came up with something
really commendable, like a half-case of cold beer after a hot
day pulling weeds all day.)

"So then this dude with a strange haircut and big shades comes
up and says, 'Hey, why don't you try ....', and what do you know,
it worked." ("Dude" here means someone that the people in
conversation don't know, that they never met before, a boy
or man, age unspecified.)

"I don't know, some jive dude from the East Village, ...."
("jive dude" here is someone who talks a good game but is
likely an unreliable source of information and/or advice. This
usage is a few decades antiquated.)

"This dude from OSHA was here, and he said ..." (No
connotations at all, the speaker could easily have used
"fellow" in place of "dude", and it would have meant exactly
the same thing.)

"This guy is a dude." (Means a person who knows his stuff,
who is expert at something, or in some other way worthy
of respect, again male and not female.)

The "dude" meaning "clueless greenhorn with some city
slicker's idea of fashionable country clothing" is truly an
heirloom usage of the term.

bizzarbazzar · January 28, 2009

I have always heard the word "dude" in a positive way. However I called my friend a "dude" the other day and he got upset. Saying he was not a "dude".
I have always used that terminology with other friends and no one ever got upset before. But although I dont know what the derogatory term means, I now know it exists. That was about the same expression I got when I told a friend she looked "cute" in an outfit. Apparently "cute" has a derogatory meaning as well.

dice · January 28, 2009

[dude II]

One more: getting "duded up" for going out in public (could
be just going to a tavern on Friday night, but it could also
be for a wedding, some ceremony, etc). Cleaned up, clean
clothes and shoes without holes or ragged seams, maybe
a suit or tuxedo if the occasion warrants it, etc.

This is clearly a modern, whimsical take-off on the
contemptuous meaning of the term in old cowboy movies,
where "dudes" tended to look like they were dressed for
a parade, even when the occasion was riding out to hunt
down some stray cows or whatever.

cottonpicker · January 29, 2009

To paraphrase Shakespeare: "much a'dude' about nothing".... ad infinitum.

newatthiskat · January 29, 2009

I have been called alot worse that that! Sometimes eight hours strait. I think the most unique this I was called was "a pimple on the back of a white rhinoserous" (sp)

actually had to cheeer that one and my pt thought I was crazy. I agree with you cottonpicker. People pick up the culture that they are exposed to. I use the word dude. I don't think of it as derogatory. Different phrases different generations. Someday I am sure my kids or grandkids might say something that I find offensive and not mean it in the least. I will remember this conversation.
Kat

January 24, 2009	#1
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Chapman, a little more history. This was posted by Bill Jeffers (PV) at another forum and thought this would be a good place for it also. Ami Brief notes on Chapman Pretty much all that's given on Chapman is what you read in the SSE Yearbook ... you know ... large red beefsteak, regular leaf vine, mild to excellent flavor, somewhat split resistant, blah, blah, blah. That and Carolyn Male got it from some dude named Richardson who didn't forward any other information about it, and now he's passed away. Oh, and that Tomato Growers Supply got their seed from Carolyn. Well, that's about it. But I ran across a little blog article about it and decided to email the writer and ask whether her name for it (Chapman's Beefsteak) was more correct that just "Chapman," just who the heck Mr. or Mrs. Chapman is anyway, and if she happened to know how this dude Richardson came to have the seeds he listed in SSE Yearbook from whence Carolyn came by her seeds. Here is the lady's response: I re-read our web page and realized that it isn't clear at all - Aunt Laurette and Uncle Arthur's last name is Chapman. Sorry about the confusion - guess I'll have to do some editing there! Chapman's Beefsteak is probably more descriptive than just Chapman, if that's what you mean by "correct". Is there some sort of protocol for naming tomato varieties? I gave Mr. Richardson some Chapman's seed years ago, probably sometime in the mid 1980's. He had shared some heirloom tomato seeds with me through a seed swap in a gardening magazine (memory fails as to which magazine) and in return I sent him some of the Chapman seed (which Aunt Laurette had previously shared with me). He was an interesting and generous man! I remember that he had an amazing collection of tomatoes and truly awful handwriting! I was aware that, at some point, the Chapman tomato had appeared in the SSE yearbook, but didn't realize they had passed through Dr. Male's august hands! It's interesting - our primary focus at Hummingbird Farm is now on clematis, although I did grow a LOT of heirloom tomatoes when our children were small and we were doing a lot of vegetable gardening. We still grow some in the greenhouse for ourselves and our customers, although not as many as I'd like. But I think that exposure to the terrific variety of sizes, shapes, colors and flavors available in tomatoes really opened my eyes to genetic diversity. "What! They're not all round and red you say!?!" And it's that same genetic diversity that appeals to me in clematis! Best Regards, Cindy __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

January 24, 2009	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Ted, I said in the original Chapman thread that I was going to contact those folks but then was made aware that Bill had done so. I still am not sure that I sent seeds for Chapman to Linda at TGS but I know I did send them to Glenn at Sandhill. I felt a bit conflicted seeing Robert Richardson referred to as a "dude" since he was a British expat and a wonderful man as was his wife and daughter and interacted with many in the US and many in other countries re seeds, and was highly respected by all and was always so generous with his seeds. The blog that's being referred to as I see it, was the one that was posted in the original Chapman thread here at Tville , unless someone lifted that and posted it elsewhere. And I don't like being referred to as the "august" Dr. Carolyn Male when I've signed every post since I started posting in 1990 as Carolyn. Of course I don't know what Bill wrote to them. And of course Bill can read here at Tville like anyone else since the gates were lifted to all a few weeks ago, as you know. It's always nice to be able to fill in the history on any variety as the information that was posted here in the original thread indicated and added to by Bill's enquiry. Since it was first listed as Chapman since Robert received it as Chapman and I received it from him as Chapman, and all others have listed it as Chapman in the Yearbooks as well as at seed sites, and not Chapman's Beefsteak, I'll continue to refer to it as Chapman, knowing it has a beefsteak shape. What's new to me is the comment that seeds were given directly to Robert Richardson since the original blog/post said they were given to an "SSE" member. I was also a bit surprised that it was said the seeds were given to Richard in the mid-80's b'c knowing him he grew out everything new each year and he didn't list Chapman until 1994 when we co-listed it, my having gotten the seeds from him in 1993 as I also noted in the original Chapman thread. Sometimes it's a good thing to have the older SSE Yearbooks for reference. Whatever. Ted, it just occurred to me that maybe you didn't see the original thread about Chapman in the Discussion Forum, not here in the Legacy Forum, so for anyone interested here's the original Chapman thread: http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10158 __________________ Carolyn

January 25, 2009	#3
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Carolyn, "dude" is just a figure of speech and not meant to be derogatory. A man extremely fastidious in dress and manner, fellow, guy, from Websters. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

January 25, 2009	#5
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Many words have slightly different meanings in different communities. "Dude" today simply means a "male person" in common language. It is closely related to the word "Dudette". Both are used commonly everywhere I've been recently in a non-derogatory manner. JMHO The other Ted __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

January 27, 2009	#7
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	[off-topic dude exampes for Carolyn] "Dude!" (The person so referred to came up with something really commendable, like a half-case of cold beer after a hot day pulling weeds all day.) "So then this dude with a strange haircut and big shades comes up and says, 'Hey, why don't you try ....', and what do you know, it worked." ("Dude" here means someone that the people in conversation don't know, that they never met before, a boy or man, age unspecified.) "I don't know, some jive dude from the East Village, ...." ("jive dude" here is someone who talks a good game but is likely an unreliable source of information and/or advice. This usage is a few decades antiquated.) "This dude from OSHA was here, and he said ..." (No connotations at all, the speaker could easily have used "fellow" in place of "dude", and it would have meant exactly the same thing.) "This guy is a dude." (Means a person who knows his stuff, who is expert at something, or in some other way worthy of respect, again male and not female.) The "dude" meaning "clueless greenhorn with some city slicker's idea of fashionable country clothing" is truly an heirloom usage of the term. __________________ -- alias

January 26, 2009	#6
OneoftheEarls Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Up North Posts: 660	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMSSe7cOvA

January 28, 2009	#8
bizzarbazzar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 811	I have always heard the word "dude" in a positive way. However I called my friend a "dude" the other day and he got upset. Saying he was not a "dude". I have always used that terminology with other friends and no one ever got upset before. But although I dont know what the derogatory term means, I now know it exists. That was about the same expression I got when I told a friend she looked "cute" in an outfit. Apparently "cute" has a derogatory meaning as well.

January 29, 2009	#10
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	To paraphrase Shakespeare: "much a'dude' about nothing".... ad infinitum. __________________ "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause". Victor Hugo

January 29, 2009	#11
newatthiskat Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: texas Posts: 1,451	Reply I have been called alot worse that that! Sometimes eight hours strait. I think the most unique this I was called was "a pimple on the back of a white rhinoserous" (sp) actually had to cheeer that one and my pt thought I was crazy. I agree with you cottonpicker. People pick up the culture that they are exposed to. I use the word dude. I don't think of it as derogatory. Different phrases different generations. Someday I am sure my kids or grandkids might say something that I find offensive and not mean it in the least. I will remember this conversation. Kat