Lights for starting from seed.

[BSue54]

So far, so good. After getting a good "stretch", my DH got an "under-counter florescent lite" and the babies have been getting 16 hours a day with that. The white fuzzies on the soil have disappeared and the seedlings are looking pretty strong (well, except for the one that I dropped the light on ;0{ I presume that I need to leave them just in the peat pods until the first set of true leaves come out? He also got the 16 oz plastic cups for me to transplant them into - frosty clear...OH WELL)

[dice]

I presume that I need to leave them just in the peat pods until the first set of true leaves come out?

I have done that. It worked.

[zeroma]

I'm bumping this thread up so I can as some basic questions on energy efficient basic florescent lighting.

My brain is having a hard time getting around some of the more tec speak from a few very knowlegdable folks on some of the other lightling 101 theards. Personally I need kindergardednlevel language.

Hubby and I bought 4 2 bulb each shop lights last night from one of the big box stores on sale : )

The box says:

. T8 or T12 lamp capability F322T8 lamps required for low temperatures
. Instant-on, quiet running
. Thermally protected
. Easy on/off pull chain
. 5' grounded cord & plug
. Hanging chain set
. Creates 90% more light output that standard shoplights
. For residential applications
. Demensions: 481/2" L x 6 1/4" W x 2 1/8" D

Requireds (2)32W T8 or 25W, 34W, 40W T12 lamps

Cool Start Light operates at 0 degrees F.

Okay then, for the best seedling growth for tomatoes (maybe a few spinach or flowers?) what is the best fluorescent tube to purchase?
The T8 or the T12? I can return the shop lights if these are totally the wrong type. I know I need 'daylight' cool - blue - daylight type rather than the warm- red type as I'm growing just for about 6 weeks and then transplanting outdoors.


Please keep it simple as I am not a rocket scientist ; )

Hubby is going to repurpose our old kayak rack into a seed growing station for me. It is a very large A frame on wheels to hold 4 long kayaks. He'll get several 92" or 96" (I don''t recall the length right now) white closet wire shelves covered with vinyl and attach the lights to the bottoms and my 10 planned flats will go on them. I will be able to roll it outside to catch some real sun rays a few hours every day to start hardening off as soon as they have recovered from their transplant stage. The wind and UV with make them strong right away and I'll save a bit on my electric bill.

What do you think? Be as honest as possible so I can make changes if needed before I start planting on March 1.

[Hotwired]

The T8 32 Watt bulb outputs more light than the 40W T12 bulb and is cheaper to operate. The bulbs are interchangeable. You definitely don't want Warm bulbs. The cool daylight bulbs are best. Bulbs are rated by Color Temperature (K). The optimum for starting plants is 6500K of Blue light. It should give the (K) on the package or bulb. Sounds like you have a good solid plan.

[zeroma]

Thank you so much Hotwired. That's what my DH was trying to tell me too. But I insisted on checking it out here at TV before buying the bulbs.

Best thing ever to have such intelligent folks here. I can do a lot of thing very well, however understanding electricity isn't one of them. I'm also a dinousour (not a dinasweet) when it comes to electronic toys. I love my very simple cell phone too. Not even equiped with a camera like my last one which I didn't use.

[ChrisK]

Question. The ballasts in my shop lights are labelled for T12. Can T8 be used in them?

The T8 32 Watt bulb outputs more light than the 40W T12 bulb and is cheaper to operate. The bulbs are interchangeable.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by zeroma

My brain is having a hard time getting around some of the more tec speak from a few very knowlegdable folks on some of the other lightling 101 theards.

Originally Posted by Hotwired

The T8 32 Watt bulb outputs more light than the 40W T12 bulb and is cheaper to operate. The bulbs are interchangeable. You definitely don't want Warm bulbs. The cool daylight bulbs are best. Bulbs are rated by Color Temperature (K). The optimum for starting plants is 6500K of Blue light. It should give the (K) on the package or bulb. Sounds like you have a good solid plan.

This might be unnecessary but I find when I'm learning something new things don't stick until I understand them. No memorization for me. So two tec speak bits here I thought I'd fill in the background in case you are like me.

1. T5, T8, T12. These terms refer to the thickness of the bulb. Specifically 9and this is weird) it is the number of 1/8ths of an inch. So a T5 is 5/8 inches thick (skinny bulbs). T8 is 8/5ths of an inch. T12 is 12/8ths of a inch (thick bulbs). The T12 also uses an old fashioned methods to generate light that is less efficient and are becoming harder and harder to find.

2. Color Temperature. This is also a bit confusing at first. What does temperature have to do with color? Well a long time ago people wanted a method to mesure color so everyone could precisely refer to colors the same way. They decided upon comparing the light you want to measure to the light emitted when you heat up metal. This didn't seem like such a crazy convention when our light was coming from burning hot metal bulbs. So think about how when you heat up a piece of metal it starts out a deep dark red, and then starts glowing more and more and turns more yellow and then as you heat it more it turns white hot and then if you manage to heat it even further it starts turning blue. So now we have a spectrum of colors from red through yellow to white and finally to blue. You can refer to each color based on the temperature you have to heat the metal to reach that color. They use the Kelvin scale of temperature (rather than Fahrenheit or Celsius) so we have temperatures in K and the numbers are very large compared to temperatures we are used to thinking in because glowing hot metal is very hot.

[Hotwired]

1. T5, T8, T12. These terms refer to the diameter of the bulb. The T5 bulb requires a special ballast since it is 54 watt. The ballasts in the T12 fixtures are rated for 40watts. The T8 bulbs have the same end pin configuration as the T12 and are only 32 watts, so a T12 fixture can have T12 or T8 bulbs or even one of each.

2. You are exactly Right - Color Temperature was a term developed for heated metals, which glow different colors at different temperatures. It has nothing to do with heat. This term is used by lighting manufacturers instead of wavelengths or spectrum color.

The following graphic shows the relationship of color to wavelengths to the plants requirements. The bulb manufacturers use Kelvin Color Temperature as a standard, because most people get confused when it comes to wavelengths in nanometers.



The best way to think of this is Soft or Warm White is primarily Red Light, meaning the peak is in the 4000K range. Daylight Natural is primarily Blue (6500K-6700K). If you compare that with the PAR curve (light that the plant uses), then the 6500K bulb peaks right where the seedling needs it.

As far as my Lighting-101 Post, I covered Color and Intensity. That was probably too much at once with setup calculations. The most important issue is getting as close to 6500K bulbs as you can for starting seedlings for eventual transplant outside. The high-end grow-light manufacturers are pushing full spectrum with Red for Flowering. Their target market is getting a 5-leaf plant to bud, and not starting veggies for transplant outside.

[ChrisK]

I've read conflicting statements on T8 bulbs with T12 ballasts. IIRC, T8 bulbs on T12 ballasts will have a shorter life than T8 with T8 ballasts. Something about startup voltages or something. Can you comment?

Also, any recommendations on good ballasts? I find it vexing that a replacement ballast at the big box stores are more expensive than a whole new fixture (which last maybe 2 years tops). I've got 5-6 fixtures needing repair.

I'm right in the middle of seed starting and my lights are all starting to die!

Originally Posted by Hotwired

1. T5, T8, T12. These terms refer to the diameter of the bulb. The T5 bulb requires a special ballast since it is 54 watt. The ballasts in the T12 fixtures are rated for 40watts. The T8 bulbs have the same end pin configuration as the T12 and are only 32 watts, so a T12 fixture can have T12 or T8 bulbs or even one of each.

[Fusion_power]

Chris, I can simplify this for you. The T8 bulbs should not be used in light fixtures with magnetic ballasts. As a general statement, most shoplights have magnetic ballasts therefore should not be equipped with T8's. I did due diligence several years ago and was able to order 24 shoplights from Home Depot for $7 each that have a Sunpark SL-15 electronic ballast. The electronic ballast will support T8 bulbs. I am on the verge of ordering replacement bulbs now given that my present set are 5 years old. They have been used a total of about 5000 hours each and are distinctly dimmer than when new.

My recommendation is to buy only electronic ballast light fixtures. If the package label does NOT say electronic ballast, then it is assuredly a magnetic ballast which is less efficient and does not support T8 bulbs. The el-cheapo shoplights are made with a cigarette size ballast in each end of the fixture. An electronic ballast is a single unit mounted in the body of the fixture, not in the ends.

My problem is that some day I want to upgrade to a 6 bulb light fixture with T5 bulbs. I have not found such a fixture at a reasonable price to date.

DarJones

[ChrisK]

Thanks for the info. Wish I could find electronic ballast lights for $7.

I don't see any indication on the ballasts themselves whether electronic or magnetic, but it very specifically says for T12 only. Suspect magnetic as you said. They never last me more than a year or two. Replacement electronic ballasts are $20 each at HD.

I almost made a major lighting score on Craigslist yesterday but they went fast.

Maybe Ebay....

Wally World also has T8 Lights of America brand fixtures for $11. Not optimistic on longevity given source.

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Chris, I can simplify this for you. The T8 bulbs should not be used in light fixtures with magnetic ballasts. As a general statement, most shoplights have magnetic ballasts therefore should not be equipped with T8's. I did due diligence several years ago and was able to order 24 shoplights from Home Depot for $7 each that have a Sunpark SL-15 electronic ballast. The electronic ballast will support T8 bulbs. I am on the verge of ordering replacement bulbs now given that my present set are 5 years old. They have been used a total of about 5000 hours each and are distinctly dimmer than when new.

My recommendation is to buy only electronic ballast light fixtures. If the package label does NOT say electronic ballast, then it is assuredly a magnetic ballast which is less efficient and does not support T8 bulbs. The el-cheapo shoplights are made with a cigarette size ballast in each end of the fixture. An electronic ballast is a single unit mounted in the body of the fixture, not in the ends.

My problem is that some day I want to upgrade to a 6 bulb light fixture with T5 bulbs. I have not found such a fixture at a reasonable price to date.

DarJones

[Dak]

I have to say that I have been pleased with the result from just regular fluorescent daylight bulbs.

My husband built me a support system to hang them


with a very easy rise


I planted these seeds on January 20th, I've started hardening my seedlings off on our deck, this is today 2/17, just 4 weeks old.

[Hotwired]

Dar, when you say most shoplights have magnetic ballasts, I would agree, assuming you're referring to existing shoplights that are currently being used. Magnetic ballasts were due to phase out in 2010. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 required a minimum ballast efficiency factor (BEF) standards. T12 inductive (magnetic) ballasts do not meet this regulation. These standards are now applied to magnetic ballasts used in various fluorescent lamps, which effectively caused the phase-out of these ballasts in new equipment in 2010. Magnetic ballasts are still widely available as replacement parts, however, almost every fixture manufacturer has switched over to electronic ballasts. I believe that China is not able to export any lights with magnetic ballasts as of 2012. I was under the impression that if you find a new fluorescent fixture with a magnetic ballast, then they are selling old inventory and are breaking the law. The cost of manufacturing an electronic ballast is a fraction of that to produce an inductive, and even cheaper if you leave out the dimmer capability, which is why there are still the cheap T12 shop lights for sale. That was my understanding, but I might be wrong.

[Mlm1]

I am in Sacramento also and I have found that I get healthier plants by moving them outside as soon as they germinate. So I don't use any of my lights anymore. I germinate the seeds in 4" pots in flats on a heating mat inside. I transplant as soon as they germinate (anytine in the first two weeks after germinating) into 2 3/8 x 5 inch Anderson bands and they stay in those until they are planted in the ground. After transplanting the seedling I let it rest for a day or two before setting them outside in an area that gets full sun. This time of year is usually pretty safe but I watch the weather closely. The first week they are out I move them into the shade in the afternoon if it is a bright sunny day. Yesterday was overcast so I left them out. Today i moved them to partial shade about an hour ago since it is pretty sunny today. In a few days i won't have to worry about the full sun since they will be acclimated and won't burn. If it is going to rain I move them into a bright area inside for the day since a heavy rain storm or hail could damage them. If the temperatures are supposed to drop below high 30's I move them in for the night. I left them out last night and they are fine (it dropped to the high 30's last night). We have some cold nights predicted in the next few weeks so I will move them in on those nights. They will probably be outside in the full sun about 90% of the time from now until they are planted in the ground. The bright sun, cool nights and air movement keep the plants much stronger. When I grew them under lights they got tall and spindly but now they stay shorter with a nice thick stalks and my electricity bill has gone down. I don't ever forget I could lose everything if I went to work and a storm hit or if I forgot to move them in on a cold night so I watch the weather closely and if in doubt I move them in.
Marla

[Hotwired]

Originally Posted by Mlm1

I am in Sacramento also and I have found that I get healthier plants by moving them outside as soon as they germinate.

I am so envious. I look outside my window and see this