Rey Humberto or King Umberto

[Tom Wagner]

The skin was very tough and taste was not memorable at all.

Thanks, Carolyn, I suspected that there would be many reasons not to grow an old variety but if I can bring in the tender, sweet, and flavorful elements of my Flaming Burst into King Umberto...so much the better. An F-1 hybrid may be sufficient but I'll bet that an OP derived from the filial levels of the cross could be obtained to meet our modern standards of excellence.

Jaune Flammee

That is the one I used, and it seems I want to drop the Jaune and the final "e" on Flammee. If I do a freetranslation.com on flame to the French it comes out flamme. I keep forgetting how to type the accent mark on Flammée.

If I get a good cross or OP out of the combination of Flaming Burst and King Umberto I could call it Flaming Umbursto. I dunno, but I really feel that many of these old "so yesteryear" varieties need to be recycled into new clones. Keeping the classic shape of the fruit is a possibility, but modify the other traits that are demerits.

If there are other growers of this variety does it look like this:

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tom Wagner

Thanks, Carolyn, I suspected that there would be many reasons not to grow an old variety but if I can bring in the tender, sweet, and flavorful elements of my Flaming Burst into King Umberto...so much the better. An F-1 hybrid may be sufficient but I'll bet that an OP derived from the filial levels of the cross could be obtained to meet our modern standards of excellence.

That is the one I used, and it seems I want to drop the Jaune and the final "e" on Flammee. If I do a freetranslation.com on flame to the French it comes out flamme. I keep forgetting how to type the accent mark on Flammée.

If I get a good cross or OP out of the combination of Flaming Burst and King Umberto I could call it Flaming Umbursto. I dunno, but I really feel that many of these old "so yesteryear" varieties need to be recycled into new clones. Keeping the classic shape of the fruit is a possibility, but modify the other traits that are demerits.

If there are other growers of this variety does it look like this:

So you haven't yet grown King Umberto?

When you do please tell me which traits are so great that you'd want to cross it with something?

So you want "ancient varieties" as in pre-1800 ones. If so start out with Green Gage, named after the venerable English plum of the same name.

I once had accent marks of all kinds, I mean key strokes for same, written on a piece of paper. Haven't see it in about 20 years.

Carolyn

[Tom Wagner]

So you haven't yet grown King Umberto?

The plant I have is in a pot and I used the flowers early for pollen and did not allow any to set fruit and the later blooms that I crossed are just now growing well. I will look at them today to see if the shape is what I remember from the 1960's

When you do please tell me which traits are so great that you'd want to cross it with something?

Old English rhyme ("Something Olde, Something New, Something Borrowed, Something Blue, A Sixpence in your Shoe"), and the four objects that the plant breeder adds to his breeding lines or carries with him on the big day of making a cross are just good luck charms

Yeah, the good luck charm of using tomatoes that might be old, new, borrowed, blue, but the Sixpence is left out. Oh, Wait! I could name a tomato Sixpence and include it in the breeding scheme!

No, I would not think King Umberto to be so valuable by itself. However, there is always hope that there is something there besides the name. There is a magical element of "Yesteryear, Today, and Tomorrow" of tomato breeding.

So you want "ancient varieties" as in pre-1800 ones. If so start out with Green Gage, named after the venerable English plum of the same name.

Carolyn, do you know of anyone who has varieties bred from Green Gage? I have the seed of Green Gage in my inventory but have not considered it directly for breeding.

The Plant Introduction series of Humberto type tomatoes are from Argentina, Brazil, and Bolivia from 80 years ago. Was it distributed around the world because of the Italians or was it desired for a trait we lost track of? I am afraid we don't grow these old varieties for quality reasons but I would like to bring back part of the old critter under a new hide.