Do you think I have Early Girl's mother?

[Carolyn C1]

In 2011, I saw several potato-leaf plants in flats of Early Girl at various nurseries, supermarkets, etc. I planted one and saved some seed. I have two seedlings this year, one of which already has fruit.

What are the chances that I have a parent line for Early Girl, and if so, is this a good tomato to try to cross? I have some medium sized and large pinks started, some oxhearts and assorted others.

I've only tried cross-pollinating tomatoes one time (got 4 seeds), but I crossed some melons last year.

[Darren Abbey]

It could be. It could also be some accidental cross, or something unrelated grown from a stray seed. If it shows itself to be stable over a few years, then you still can't say for sure that it is an Early Girl parent.

How good it would be to try and cross it depends entirely on what you want out of a cross.

Commercial F1 hybrids are produced by crossing each combination of a set of highly inbred lines, then figuring out which of the hybrids has the best characteristics. If you do have an "Early Girl" parent, it doesn't mean it will work favorably when crossed with the other lines you have.
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I have a white large-cherry that I grew out of what was supposed to be an "Italian Ice F1" seed. Other plants from the batch appeared the expected white small-cherry. The aberrant type has been stable for a few years and looks similar to the images I've seen for "Dr. Carolyn", but a paler white-yellow color.

Even though I don't know its 'official' name, it is a line I will be growing every year. That it could be a commonly available variety does make me naming and sharing this line somewhat problematic.

[travis]

In 2006, I found a couple of potato leaf transplants among flats of Early Girl hybrid transplants at local nursery.

Here are some photos of the finished products:







The tomatoes were okay, not anything special, a bit zingy but not really tart or anything. Not sweet either. I never grew them again, if that says anything. As you can see, the tomatoes were sort of small ... 1.5 inches or so. They were grown in a container just to see what they were, so grown under better conditions, the tomatoes might be a bit larger.

They were crack resistant and had nice color and conformation. I suppose they might make a good breeding line if you're shooting for a small to medium size, smooth, red, early tomato. Also, as you can see, they had the n-gene (nipple gene), so they would be a good parent to lessen the blossom scar or impart a pinpoint blossom scar when crossed with other tomatoes that have a tendency toward catfacing or inverted belly button scars. Give it a shot, and let us know.

[Carolyn C1]

Thanks, Travis. The "belly button scar" genetics are interesting. I remember the one I grew out in 2011 as a small, pinkish tomato. Nothing special. Don't remember a nippled appearance, but I didn't keep notes. I'll have to watch. Three fruitlets this year look like they might develop some nippling. In fact, they look like they could grow up to resemble your photos pretty closely.

Somewhere, I may have 4 seeds from an attempted cross from this plant back in 2011. With Brandywine if potato leaf, with Black Krim if regular leaf. It was not a good tomato year here that year. Didn't see the seeds when I went through my collection this year.

I've got a couple of other apparent stray seedlings from other cultivars I planted this year. Both from commercial sources. They were supposed to be Aunt Ginny's Purple and Gold Nugget. It will be interesting to see what they are, too.

[carolyn137]

A few years ago I made a seed offer here at Tvill for PSR-37 which is an OP version of Early Girl F1 done by Tim Peters.I think the following thread will help clarify where Early Girl was first bred and about whether or not a PL X ??? was one of the parental inputs.

In the following link Gordon Gumbo posts here as Travis, who posted one of the same pictures above that's also found in this thread.

http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showt...ght=early+girl

Carolyn

[Sun City Linda]

I am growing PSR-37 this year from seed Carolyn distributed years ago. Someone offered me some, but then he could not find the seed he had saved and only had the original envelope he had received, which had 3 seeds inside, but one was mashed. One came up and yes these are the least vigorous seedling I have every grown. I kept thinking I would lose it but low and behold it now seems strong and sturdy.

Sandhill has added PSR37 to their lineup in this years catalog.

[Carolyn C1]

If the tomato I have turns out to be red, I'm pretty confident it's the same one Travis pictures above. Fruitlets are starting to resemble his photo more each day. I started several seeds this year and the little plants all looked similar. Only kept two plants. I didn't remember the tomatoes on the 2011 plant as being something that people would perpetuate in their own right, and I didn't give any of the extra plants away. I have some extra seeds if someone from a short-season area wants to do a little experimenting. Or I can bag some blossoms this year.

From Travis' comments on the n-gene and Carolyn's comments about Tim Peters' experiences, it might be interesting to try a cross with a beefsteak type prone to catfacing. I have a few of those started, too. I'm pretty much a novice at crossing tomatoes, though.

Darren, your experience with Italian Ice is interesting. I've never particularly wanted to grow out the posterity of an F-1 hybrid, but the same year I found this plant, I saw an Early Girl plant with one stem which had sported to potato leaf. Kinda wish I had bought it and saved some seeds.

It's always interesting to me how many people have their minds set on Early Girl and only Early Girl when they look at tomato plants at a nursery. Also interesting that people on the California coast choose Early Girl for dry farming. You would think they could find a determinate that would work.

[Tom Wagner]

Seems to me that I recall talking with some breeders many years ago and the subject of Early Cascade and Early Girl was brought up. Both, I think, have the same potato leaf mother parent, therefore one might assume the potato leaf variant in the boughten Early Girls is an OP.

I have used Early Cascade inbreds lines out of the F-1 selfies and usually kept the potato leaf lines.... I wish I have gotten around to using the pollen from an F-1 Early Girl yesterday in the crosses done up near Ellensburg, WA. I would have crossed it to a Maristu Pink (Marianna’s Peace x Stupice) which is potato leafed, or at least to an F-1 Brandywine x Skykomish which is not potato leaf but carries it. The hybrids would have thrown potato leaf seedlings ...50% and 25% respectively.

Since I already have made 300 plus crosses this month so far...the season is young and maybe I should make the Early Girl crosses yet to prove a point.

It has been a third of a century since I have first grown Early Cascade and I tried the Early Girl soon thereafter, however, the EG is far more popular.

Since many of my colleagues are working with the Beaverlodge Slicer and many want a semi-determinate hybrid made with it...my focus was dictated by necessity. I made crosses to blues and stripes from Beaverlodge pollen for the most part. I used over 25 pollen parents yesterday from an early blooming pool of varieties growing at Arlington. Yesterday's work was dedicated to early maturing lines = early bloomers.

[Carolyn C1]

Wow, Tom. Now we know why you need a system to keep track.

I was thinking of trying to cross the presumed PL mother of Early Girl with at least one of the following: NAR, Orange Minsk, Sandul Moldovan, Giant Belgium, or one of the smaller, not real early tomatoes which do well in the heat here - Nyagous or AAA Sweet Solano. Maybe with Burgundy Traveler or Bradley.

If any of those sound interesting to you, I could send you F1 seed, assuming I do the cross successfully. Other than Bradley, I think that the only OP determinate I have started this year is Remy Rouge, a sweet, container-friendly cherry. I have a Moskvich planted, if a cross would be interesting to any of your colleagues working on early tomatoes.

[Tom Wagner]

If any of those sound interesting to you, I could send you F1 seed, assuming I do the cross successfully.

To Carolyn C1....Thanks....I could grow a few extra hybrids out.....I tell people that there is safety in numbers. Selfing out of anyone's hybrids and the many of my own is a default exercise I have done as a contingency of sorts.

As you are a fairly new member here on TVille, I hope you do perform the crosses as a means to connect with other tomato enthusiasts. Please make as many crosses as you can...the happenstance of unusual crosses is quite valuable despite some critics who may ask, "WHY?"

Also to Carolyn C1...what part of the Central Valley of California are you in? I spent the years 1988 through 2003 growing tomatoes up and down the I-5...mostly in Bakersfield and locations further north. There heat was a problem...but here cold is the problem...plus floods...one of my cooperator's fields is under water as the Snoqualmie river is overflowing into his newly planted potato plot and isolating his greenhouses.

[Carolyn C1]

I'm halfway between Bakersfield and Fresno. Drought is a problem this year, but our little town has wells. We have alkaline soil and nematodes in parts of our garden. We had a real problem with spider mites last year. Best results were with Dr. Lyle and AAA Sweet Solano, both of which got a little afternoon shade. But AAA Sweet Solano has also done well here in full sun.

Field tomatoes are grown near here for processing. Little seedlings start going in the ground in late February.

It's discouraging to hear about your cooperator's flooding problems.