Pickles

[linuxmoose]

I've been making excellent dill pickles for years with a recipe that was passed down for ages, but it doesn't call for processing in a water bath canner, so I know that it technically is not considered safe by modern standards. Without processing, the pickles are very crisp. The recipe makes them in quart jars, so I looked through some pickling recipes, and noted that most of them call for processing quarts of pickles for 15 minutes in a water bath. I made my recipe exactly as before, but processed them for 15 minutes. I got what I feared would happen - mushy pickles. The recipe is posted below. Can any people who successfully make pickles look over it, suggest anything I could be doing wrong, or suggest a similar recipe that would be safe. Or...should I just keep making them the way I have been (fill the packed jars with boiling brine and seal, and hope I don't get poisoned ).

Recipe:
Pack washed pickling cucumbers into quart jars.
Add to each jar 2 pods of hot pepper, 4 pods of garlic, and 1 teaspoon dill seed.
Mix 1 quart vinegar, 2 quarts water, 3/4 cup pickling salt, and one tablespoon alum and bring to a boil.
Pour boiling brine mixture into jars, seal, and don't open for two months.
Makes approximately 5 quarts

I'm using small and firm pickling cucumbers, but when I process this for 15 minutes, I get mushy pickles. Should I:
1. Shorten processing time
2. Make some change to the recipe
3. Just do it the way I always have, and hope no one gets poisoned

Is 2 to 1 water to vinegar acidic enough to be safe?

Help!
Thanks.
Allen B.

[Zana]

Hi Allen,

Are you packing into hot sterilised jars?

Personally I would skip the alum, as I find it always leads to mushy pickles and a bit of a metallic taste. I also use more pickling/kosher salt than 3/4 cup with that volume of brine.

What is the acidity level of the vinegar that you are using? It may not be high enough, even with that ratio of vinegar to water.

And just a personal thing - which I know is not necessarily what some of the powers that be want posted, if the jars seal cleanly, I don't water bath process them. In close to 50 years of pickling, I've yet to make anybody sick with that method...although I'll pitch anything that even remotely looks or smells dodgy.

[linuxmoose]

Zana,
Yes, I'm packing into sterilized jars that are still hot from coming out of the canner. I'm using 5% vinegar. What ratio of water to vinegar to you use?
Thanks!

[feldon30]

Do them the way they've been done for 100 years with no trouble:

Hot pickles into hot jars with hot lids and rings, with everything having boiled at least once and everything kept hot and clean and wiped down until you're done.

The new methods are designed to be lawyerproof for people who cannot follow directions and forget to wipe the rim or cross-contaminate or don't have everything boiling or fail to measure things right or disturb/jostle the jars before they've sealed or otherwise they just plain don't follow the recipe!

I'm fairly new to canning but I am extremely meticulous/fastidious about having everything clean and boiling. I follow the Ball Blue Book recipe to a T and I've done two batches of Bread and Butter pickles, one batch of Sweet Lime pickles, and two batches of Blueberry Preserves and everything came out perfect. The lids all popped within a few minutes.

If you really want to do the "super safe" processing, then you can buy Pickle Crisp from Ball (green jar) which is what all major manufacturers use. You add like 1/4 tsp of calcium chloride powder per jar and it firms up the pickles.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by linuxmoose

I've been making excellent dill pickles for years with a recipe that was passed down for ages, but it doesn't call for processing in a water bath canner, so I know that it technically is not considered safe by modern standards. Without processing, the pickles are very crisp. The recipe makes them in quart jars, so I looked through some pickling recipes, and noted that most of them call for processing quarts of pickles for 15 minutes in a water bath. I made my recipe exactly as before, but processed them for 15 minutes. I got what I feared would happen - mushy pickles. The recipe is posted below. Can any people who successfully make pickles look over it, suggest anything I could be doing wrong, or suggest a similar recipe that would be safe. Or...should I just keep making them the way I have been (fill the packed jars with boiling brine and seal, and hope I don't get poisoned ).

Recipe:
Pack washed pickling cucumbers into quart jars.
Add to each jar 2 pods of hot pepper, 4 pods of garlic, and 1 teaspoon dill seed.
Mix 1 quart vinegar, 2 quarts water, 3/4 cup pickling salt, and one tablespoon alum and bring to a boil.
Pour boiling brine mixture into jars, seal, and don't open for two months.
Makes approximately 5 quarts
I don't think that is enough vinegar to be safe. I think it needs to be 50/50 or more vinegar.
I'm using small and firm pickling cucumbers, but when I process roximately 5 quarts
I'm using small and firm pickling cucumbersI process this for 15 minutes, I get mushy pickles. Should I: for 15 minutes, I get mushy pickles. Should I:
1. Shorten processing time
2. Make some change to the recipe
3. Just do it the way I always have, and hope no one gets poisoned

Is 2 to 1 water to vinegar acidic enough to be safe?

Help!
Thanks.
Allen B.

It needs 50/50 to be considered safe. The pickle crisp really works.

[Worth1]

Do this at your own risk but I stopped hot water bathing pickles.
I tried it once and never again, the whole batch was tossed.
My cucumbers get washed in a mild bleach solution and then rinsed.
The jars go through the same process.
If the jar is sealed and the acid is right I dont have any worries in my house.
You simply cannot cook a cucumber and expect anything good to come out of it.

I guess tomorrows project will be sweet/hot pickles.

Just like my Mom used to make.

Worth

[coronabarb]

Make sure the cucumbers are firm and fresh and free of blemishes. Cut 1/16" off the blossom end.

As Tracy said, the vinegar/water ration should be at least 50/50. Official word;

"Caution: The level of acidity in a pickled product is as important to its safety as it is to taste and texture.

Do not alter vinegar, food, or water proportions in a recipe or use a vinegar with unknown acidity.
Use only recipes with tested proportions of ingredients. There must be a minimum, uniform level of acid throughout the mixed product to prevent the growth of botulinum bacteria."

That's not written to be lawyer proof - it comes from laboratory testing to see what is needed to prevent the bacteria growth. You'll have a better product that you won't have to throw out if it is spoiled. To each their own.

Firming Agents - "Alum does not improve the firmness of quick-process pickles. The calcium in lime definitely improves pickle firmness. Food-grade lime may be used as a lime-water solution for soaking fresh cucumbers 12 to 24 hours before pickling them. Excess lime absorbed by the cucumbers must be removed to make safe pickles. To remove excess lime, drain the lime-water solution, rinse, and then resoak the cucumbers in fresh water for 1 hour. Repeat the rinsing and soaking steps two more times."

I personally wouldn't go through all that trouble...I'd use the Pickle Crisp which is calcium chloride.

"To further improve pickle firmness, you may process cucumber pickles for 30 minutes in water at 180°F. This process also prevents spoilage, but the water temperature should not fall below 180°F. Use a candy or jelly thermometer to check the water temperature."

This is called the pasteurization method. I used it last year and liked how my dills came out.

Here's a pickle problem sheet. For soft pickles, it lists vinegar too weak, not enough brine, not processed to kill enzymes/microorganisms, moldy spices, blossom end not removed.

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_06/pickleproblems.html

I checked the nchfp dill recipe. It is somewhat similar to yours. The vinegar is not 50/50 - 1 1/2 qts vinegar to 2 qts of water, with 1/2 cup of salt. You can take a look here.

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_06/quick_dill_pickles.html

[Worth1]

As what Barbs said I want to add something.
I didn't bother looking att the recipe and had no idea the ratio was off.
The only time I cut back on vinegar is when I use 90 grain which is twice as strong as the 5% stuff.
One time I used it straight not realizing it.
Worth

[coronabarb]

I've heard that the vinegar used in "the old days" was a lot stronger than what we use today. Would make things a lot safer.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by coronabarb

I've heard that the vinegar used in "the old days" was a lot stronger than what we use today. Would make things a lot safer.

Barb if you look on the jug it says distilled vinegar diluted with water to 5% acidity.
So that tells me that the recipes people use from way back when may be using 10% acidity or more.
Since many of the old recipes say just vinegar.
I can almost bet the recipe that was passed down for ages listed here was using 10% or 90 grain vinegar not 5% in the beginning.
If so the ratio would be right.

That is why when I do put something here I always say what strength the vinegar is so as not to confuse anyone.
The same goes for my meat curing.


Worth

[Zana]

I work with 5 to 10% acidity organic apple cider vinegars. Never had any problems.

But use at your own risk - search my recipe for Armenian Dill Pickles. I've literally pickled 1000's of jars in the past 50 plus years. Anything that doesn't seal, with a hot pack - boiling brine and hot sterlised jars, lids and rings gets a water bath or put in the fridge. Anything that pops a lid down the road, smells dodgy or even looks dodgy gets tosses. Have never made anybody sick. The people at the Buffalo Niagara Tomato Tastefest have tasted my pickles - cukes and mixed peppers and mixed veggies. Ask them how they turned out.

[frdlturner]

Worth 1 that hot sweet/hot pickles sounds good...

[BucksCountyGirl]

Or you could just lacto-ferment your pickles and not worry about vinegar ratios or processing times at all!

[BigVanVader]

Grape leaves supposedly help pickles stay firm if you put them in the jar. My Grandma always did it this way. Not sure if it has any scientific merit of not though.

[feldon30]

Good clarification above about not messing with the vinegar ratio. I do it exactly as per the recipe.

I've never made dills, but my sweet limes were crunchy as can be, almost too crunchy!