P.Y. Saraev Tomatoes

[MendozaMark]

I am currently growing 0-33 in my Mendoza garden, and it is looking great. I really hope it finishes nicely and the taste is good for an early variety.I am very excited to see newly available P.Y. Saraev varieties from Tatiana coming soon. Is anyone else planning on trying these new ones ? If so which ones? If you have tried any other Saraev's varieties (including 0-33) what was your experience like ? Lastly, I remember seeing info on his varieties that had the cold test numbers but I can not find it now. If you have a link to this thread...please post.

My list of possible Saraev's varieties to try are...

Saraev Svetloplodnye
Saraev Gruntovyi
Saraev Otbor 1
Saraev M-22
Saraev Bezrassadnyi

I will probably drop 1 or 2 before I order.

Cheers !

[AKmark]

0-33 is a good yielder, it tastes good, it is fairly early. I prefer Sasha's Altai for a like variety though, bigger fruit, better taste, about as early. Of note, 0-33 was NOT frost tolerant for me, cold tolerant, Yes. These were grown outside in my garden in Alaska.

[MendozaMark]

Thanks Mark, when I was looking at old threads I saw you had recommended Sasha's Altai over 0-33. Its on my list based on your advice. I don't think I would ever trust any tomato to really take a frost. I am looking for tomatoes that can thrive in cold weather as I want to have a head start in the spring and get a late fall crop in before last frost. Out of the early tomatoes growing this year I have 0-33, clear pink early and stupice growing. I don't have anything ripe yet but good fruit set on all the above. Thanks to Cole_Robbie, I will be trying Cole tomato too next year. If you have any other great super early toms, let me know.

Cheers !

Originally Posted by AKmark

0-33 is a good yielder, it tastes good, it is fairly early. I prefer Sasha's Altai for a like variety though, bigger fruit, better taste, about as early. Of note, 0-33 was NOT frost tolerant for me, cold tolerant, Yes. These were grown outside in my garden in Alaska.

[MrBig46]

For me it is not so important that these tomatoes resistant to frost. After April 10 We never two consecutive nights the temperature drops below freezing. I'll put them in a frame covered with glass and can heat up at night a candle or kerosene lantern. But usually several days overcast skies and temperatures in the hothouse rises above 15 ° C. I need tomatoes that are resistant to several days of low temperatures and therefore I will be testing Saraev tomatoes. This year I grew 0-33, tasted me. Also waiting for the new catalog from Tania and I chose preliminarily Saraev M-22 and Saraev Druzhnya. I also want to try the tomato 42 days.
Vladimír

[AKmark]

I get better yields and higher quality fruits from indeterminates outside here in AK. (Early Girl) does very well in cooler weather, and it tastes good, (4th of July) does good, (Summer Girl) was insane for production, very early too, nice size fruit, taste pretty ok. (Bloody Butcher) does well, (Flora) did good, taste good too, a bit later than some, (Matina) was a little later but loaded up, my (PL Early Girl x PL Black Krim f1) did great, my (Brandywine X BB f1) may have stole the show, very early and really tasty. We got many fruit from starts that were put out as late as June 30. I think I posted pics in container section.
(Clear Pink Early) did yield a lot, the taste was acceptable, (Sub Arctic Plenty) did good, taste ok, (Sophie's Choice) yielded large tomatoes, only decent taste, (Silvery Fir Tree), good yield, edible, (Siletz), good yield, puker, mush-paste.
These were all grown in the same garden, in containers, straight in the ground, under IRT, and IRT covered ground with black containers setting on that.
Try this if you live in the north. Mound up a large row with a flat top, take nice starts in 2-3 gallon containers, cut out the bottom and smash it into the top of the row.
The worst thing to do is bury a tomato plant deep in the ground in AK, the soil temp is the problem, and microbe counts fall quickly every inch you go down.
Doing this you use only the top- soil(literally) and still have a lot of roots, and they will grow into your row. The container helps when it gets ugly rainy too, you could even cover the top. We are really going to do this a lot next year, it worked the best for us out of any other technique I have tried. Going to try some more dry farming with this next year too.
I did find out that there is something/ many things probably, in my garden soil that tomatoes love, that is my main reason to try the container garden combo grow thingy. We live in a valley that has a stream which has deposited its matter through the years, and also have glacial silt that blows in every winter. There is something in it that tomatoes do like, Early Girls had bigger fruit than in the greenhouse, insane production per foot of plant too.
I am so convinced, we have dug up several buckets of the dirt and are storing them to mixed in the spring with pro-mix to grow our record tomato we are after.
Good luck, I hope this helps.

[MendozaMark]

Thanks Mark, very helpful. Just finishing up moving my 2 yards of soil I just got, then I will give your post a second proper read.

Originally Posted by AKmark

I get better yields and higher quality fruits from indeterminates outside here in AK. (Early Girl) does very well in cooler weather, and it tastes good, (4th of July) does good, (Summer Girl) was insane for production, very early too, nice size fruit, taste pretty ok. (Bloody Butcher) does well, (Flora) did good, taste good too, a bit later than some, (Matina) was a little later but loaded up, my (PL Early Girl x PL Black Krim f1) did great, my (Brandywine X BB f1) may have stole the show, very early and really tasty. We got many fruit from starts that were put out as late as June 30. I think I posted pics in container section.
(Clear Pink Early) did yield a lot, the taste was acceptable, (Sub Arctic Plenty) did good, taste ok, (Sophie's Choice) yielded large tomatoes, only decent taste, (Silvery Fir Tree), good yield, edible, (Siletz), good yield, puker, mush-paste.
These were all grown in the same garden, in containers, straight in the ground, under IRT, and IRT covered ground with black containers setting on that.
Try this if you live in the north. Mound up a large row with a flat top, take nice starts in 2-3 gallon containers, cut out the bottom and smash it into the top of the row.
The worst thing to do is bury a tomato plant deep in the ground in AK, the soil temp is the problem, and microbe counts fall quickly every inch you go down.
Doing this you use only the top- soil(literally) and still have a lot of roots, and they will grow into your row. The container helps when it gets ugly rainy too, you could even cover the top. We are really going to do this a lot next year, it worked the best for us out of any other technique I have tried. Going to try some more dry farming with this next year too.
I did find out that there is something/ many things probably, in my garden soil that tomatoes love, that is my main reason to try the container garden combo grow thingy. We live in a valley that has a stream which has deposited its matter through the years, and also have glacial silt that blows in every winter. There is something in it that tomatoes do like, Early Girls had bigger fruit than in the greenhouse, insane production per foot of plant too.
I am so convinced, we have dug up several buckets of the dirt and are storing them to mixed in the spring with pro-mix to grow our record tomato we are after.
Good luck, I hope this helps.

[Lindalana]

I have posted about Saraev tomatoes in another post and replies were that cold tolerance is epigenetic, which means it will loose its trait if not used after few generations.
So those tomatoes do need to be started early and given plenty of at cold weather. I too would not try real frost but starting yearly, yes, in the works.
Not sure which tomatoes I am going to grow from Tania order. Glad to know there is more people who can not wait till the catalog published.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by Lindalana

I have posted about Saraev tomatoes in another post and replies were that cold tolerance is epigenetic, which means it will loose its trait if not used after few generations.
So those tomatoes do need to be started early and given plenty of at cold weather. I too would not try real frost but starting yearly, yes, in the works.
Not sure which tomatoes I am going to grow from Tania order. Glad to know there is more people who can not wait till the catalog published.

Last couple years I have planted out around mid April. After that we have had many many nights lows going down as low as 36F (never frost). and our highs will normally stay in 60s F till July. and I have been saving seeds from my plants.
So do you think that they will do better next year ?

Gardeneer

[Lindalana]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Last couple years I have planted out around mid April. After that we have had many many nights lows going down as low as 36F (never frost). and our highs will normally stay in 60s F till July. and I have been saving seeds from my plants.
So do you think that they will do better next year ?

Gardeneer

Russian forum people are all about planting their own seeds next year and report better results. Whether there is any epigenetics in works am not sure.
I do believe this is how Saraev got his frost resistant varieties bred- keep what did not get killed by cold and chose best year from year. I was told he did his breeding first and then hired someone to help him figure out science behind it.

[MendozaMark]

Its funny how different our growing conditions are. I have soil temp issues too but mine are too hot as late spring hits. I was making a container mix yesterday and temporarily put them in 30 L black plastic pots. Later on, I decide to transfer the soil into 10 L pots. When i pot my hand in the pots, it was very hot. I have to move all my established containers today to get the sun directly off the pots today. In another 6 weeks or so , it will be too hot for toms to set fruit. I am planning to use shade cloth this year, to see if i can buy a few weeks.

So my strategy is to do a spring crop and a fall crop with a few trial indeterminates and cherries that i will let go all summer. My last frost date is Sept. 22 and first frost is May 7. That is why i am looking for early cold tolerant varieties to handle the cool temps at beginning of spring and late fall. I am not sure how my fall ones will handle the heat of summer when i seed them, so that will be of interest. I have converted my seedling greenhouse to my shade house so i think i will be ok.

Thanks again !

Originally Posted by AKmark

I get better yields and higher quality fruits from indeterminates outside here in AK. (Early Girl) does very well in cooler weather, and it tastes good, (4th of July) does good, (Summer Girl) was insane for production, very early too, nice size fruit, taste pretty ok. (Bloody Butcher) does well, (Flora) did good, taste good too, a bit later than some, (Matina) was a little later but loaded up, my (PL Early Girl x PL Black Krim f1) did great, my (Brandywine X BB f1) may have stole the show, very early and really tasty. We got many fruit from starts that were put out as late as June 30. I think I posted pics in container section.
(Clear Pink Early) did yield a lot, the taste was acceptable, (Sub Arctic Plenty) did good, taste ok, (Sophie's Choice) yielded large tomatoes, only decent taste, (Silvery Fir Tree), good yield, edible, (Siletz), good yield, puker, mush-paste.
These were all grown in the same garden, in containers, straight in the ground, under IRT, and IRT covered ground with black containers setting on that.
Try this if you live in the north. Mound up a large row with a flat top, take nice starts in 2-3 gallon containers, cut out the bottom and smash it into the top of the row.
The worst thing to do is bury a tomato plant deep in the ground in AK, the soil temp is the problem, and microbe counts fall quickly every inch you go down.
Doing this you use only the top- soil(literally) and still have a lot of roots, and they will grow into your row. The container helps when it gets ugly rainy too, you could even cover the top. We are really going to do this a lot next year, it worked the best for us out of any other technique I have tried. Going to try some more dry farming with this next year too.
I did find out that there is something/ many things probably, in my garden soil that tomatoes love, that is my main reason to try the container garden combo grow thingy. We live in a valley that has a stream which has deposited its matter through the years, and also have glacial silt that blows in every winter. There is something in it that tomatoes do like, Early Girls had bigger fruit than in the greenhouse, insane production per foot of plant too.
I am so convinced, we have dug up several buckets of the dirt and are storing them to mixed in the spring with pro-mix to grow our record tomato we are after.
Good luck, I hope this helps.

[Fusion_power]

You will find, as I did, that there is very little cold tolerance in domestic tomatoes. Far better and true breeding tolerance is in S. Habrochaites. It is still worth working with good domestic varieties because small improvements in cold tolerance have relatively large effects on fruit production.

Of the varieties I grew in 2013, Sub Arctic Plenty, Sasha's Altai, O-33, Earlinorth, and PI120256 (from ARS-Grin) showed significant tolerance of very cool growing conditions and had relatively high production of decent flavored fruit. Jagodka was not cold tolerant, but it matured fruit in such a short time that it should be included in a breeding program to reduce days to maturity.

These notes are on my website under the growing seedlings link. The most important part for breeding is in the 32 to 50 degree range which is where most tomatoes fail after just a few hours. If selection is made for tomatoes that thrive in this range, significant improvements in earliness, production, and hardiness can be achieved.

50°F to 65°F = this is the beginning of cold stress. Tomato plants in this range grow slowly, often produce anthcyanins (turn purple), and become pale green from loss of chlorophyll function.



32°F to 50°F = This is the range where normal tomato plants show severe cold stress. Leaves shrivel, turn yellow, wilt, stems lose turgor, roots stop absorbing water. Rubisco is deactivated by free radicals with byproducts accumulating which causes the leaves to die.



28°F to 32°F = This is the maximum range most tomatoes can withstand without freezing. Note that if frost forms on the leaves, then the leaves will freeze and die. The plant may live and can form new leaves, but the stunting effects take quite a bit of time to overcome.The time a plant can stand at this temperature is very short, in the range of about 6 hours in a 7 day period. If the temperature remains below 50 deg F on average and if the temperature dips below freezing a couple of times, the plants will deteriorate rapidly.



22°F to 28°F = This is the range that a few select varieties can withstand for brief periods of time but stipulating that frost on the leaves will still kill them.



15°F to 22°F = This is the range that a few Russian cultivars are reported to survive, again only if frost does not form. The reports I have read indicate that this tolerance is only for a limited time period, in other words, repeated low temps for 3 days or more will still kill the plants.



0°F to 15°F = A few Russian cultivars are able to handle temps this low for brief periods of time. This is the low end of the range that wild tomato species S. Habrochaites, S. Chilense, and S. Lycopersicoides can withstand.



As the temperature goes below 60°F, tomato plants enter a state where normal photosynthesis ceases. Sugar accumulates in the leaves, rubisco - a crucial chemical in the plant- begins to be deactivated by free radicles. This process causes the leaves to become dysfunctional in such a way that they can not recover. One very special trick that greenhouse growers MUST know is that if plants are exposed to overnight lows below 45°F then the greenhouse must be let rise to a high temp near 100°F the next day. If this is done, then the plants totally reverse all effects of being too cold the night before.