plastic gallon milk cartons

[Gardeneer]

Well if you think that milk jugs and 3 liter bottles are big enough, that is fine. use them.
I know they can be very good if you direct sow something (like cucumbers). But my tomato seedlings at plant out time average about 10 to 12" tall and too big to fit in a 3 liter bottle.
Another issue is that you have to have some slack and volume of air to slow down heat loss and cooling at cold temperatures.
I know we all have different thinking and ways of doing thing. That is perfectly fine with me. We are here just express our views and I would not call it a quarrel.

Gardeneer

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Well if you think that milk jugs and 3 liter bottles are big enough, that is fine. use them.
I know they can be very good if you direct sow something (like cucumbers). But my tomato seedlings at plant out time average about 10 to 12" tall and too big to fit in a 3 liter bottle.
Another issue is that you have to have some slack and volume of air to slow down heat loss and cooling at cold temperatures.
I know we all have different thinking and ways of doing thing. That is perfectly fine with me. We are here just express our views and I would not call it a quarrel.

Gardeneer

Thus is where lays the discrepancy.
The term seedling.
To me seedling is a wee baby of a plant.
What you and I both put out are teen aged plant young adults so to speak.
Where a seedling might be considered preschool at the most.

Seedling/preschool one to 4 inches tall if grown properly without sun light starvation stretch.

By the time a plant is put out by me it is going through puberty.
A smart alecky thing to say the least with maybe a bloom or two starting.
Worth

Worth

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Thus is where lays the discrepancy.
The term seedling.
To me seedling is a wee baby of a plant.
What you and I both put out are teen aged plant young adults so to speak.
Where a seedling might be considered preschool at the most.

Seedling/preschool one to 4 inches tall if grown properly without sun light starvation stretch.

By the time a plant is put out by me it is going through puberty.
A smart alecky thing to say the least with maybe a bloom or two starting.
Worth

Worth

Right. We grow seedlings under light and at some point they become plants. The whole process takes 4 to 6 weeks. Some of mine also flower while still under the light .
So yes. What I take outside are not wee babies. I wouldn't plant out anything smaller than that.

Gardener

[AlittleSalt]

I had some tomato plants this past spring that were 18" tall after planting them deep. I'm glad I didn't have to cover them up. Guess I could have built a Teepee for them?

[ChiliPeppa]

Ok so has anyone used the black plastic pots?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa

Ok so has anyone used the black plastic pots?

Yes me.
BUT you have to cover the holes with blue painters tape to keep the cold air out.
Did they work I dont know the plants were alive and kicking the next day when it warmed up.
The year before it got so cold it didn't work.
Something like 24 degrees is just too much.
I do know the hay/straw thing works very very well.
I had about 200 plant to protect and I covered every one with hay.
The front came through it got cold for two days.
The wind blew some of the straw off.
The only parts that froze were the uncovered tops.

A person could insulate the buckets on the out side and then put them over the plants before it gets cold.
This way the heat would stay in.
Covering one after it gets cold wont help much unless you have ground heat coming up.

I have also used sheets to cover tender plants outside for a short cold snap.
Tomato plants freeze at almost exactly 32F that is what you want to stay above.

Worth

[ChiliPeppa]

OK, good to know. I do have lots of hay and straw, so that will work easily for me. Thanks Worth.

[AlittleSalt]

I agree, hay or leaves. Both cause an effect of warming. I just know it works and it is natural - and nature figured things out way before we did. Have you ever noticed that layered thin covers keep you warmer than one thick blanket? Straw and leaves do the same thing as those thin covers. I think our idea of covering plants with a metal or plastic bucket/can/whatever comes more from us wanting to shelter things. A form of protection that isn't always true in all cases.

In the past week alone, I have opened the windows in our house just to warm it up in here. We need to think about protection better.

[Gardeneer]

Yes. Any pot , any color is ok . As Worth said , as long as you cover the holes. AND put a weight on it. Dry leaves, straw .. can act like insulation material, much better than air.
This is just a temporary thing for an unexpected frost not for season extension like WOW or wrapped cage.
.

[ChiliPeppa]

Thanks again everyone for all the responses.

[Sodak]

I use WOWs. They are good for protection (but I learned to put them inside my Texas Tomato Cages so they don't blow over and crush the plant; I tried rebar inside the WOW but worried I was migrating cold temps down the bar), but I am not sure they speed up the first fruits very much. Maybe a few days in my South Dakota garden. I also use Smart pots as the soil gets warmer easier.

[Deborah]

Salt, I do that too, open the windows when it's a bit warmer outside than inside.

[RobinB]

I use Walls O'Water too. Our "usual" plant out time without protection would be June 1 or so. I plant out with WOWs in mid-April, and I generally plant dwarves so I don't have to worry about them getting too tall before it's safe from frost. When I do plant non-dwarf plants in the WOWs, I usually have to do the bubble wrap around the cage also. We have some pretty hot temps here in the high desert, and I keep the WOWs on all year round. I have found that it helps moderate the temperatures and shade the roots. Then, when fall comes, even though the top of the plant is way above the WOW I feel that it does help keep them alive a little longer when the whole thing is covered with something like Remay.

[Gardeneer]

Yeah. There is a difference between using protection for unexpected weather condition and using it to beat the mother nature. I used the for the latter reason, as season extender from the front end. Otherwise our LFD will be over when April arrives. But then it will stay cool til mid May or early June. I got my first ripe on June 25 this past season. No published DTM numbers work here, unless you add at least 15 days to them.

Gardeneer