Accidental F1 twins?

[M.SeanF.]

I saved seed from Japanese Black Trifele last summer and grew out around 20 seedlings this spring. Most are potato leaf just as I expected from JBT selfed seed. Two seedlings are regular leaf and so far they are identical, but don't look like any other varieties I started this year. The only other variety I saved my own seed from last year was Green Copia and the "twins" have small JBT-like flowers not the large beefsteak-type flowers all the Green Copia plants are showing. Once the "twins" have started to set fruit I'll post some pictures.

The seed I saved came from two different JBT plants at a local food-bank garden. Both plants were in mixed-heirloom/OP slicer rows. One plant was on the end of a row next to regular Copia. The other JBT plant was in the middle of a row, next to Pink Boar and (maybe) Cherokee Chocolate. Based on how intertwined the plants were, my best guess for a likely parent would be Pink Boar.

Has anyone here tried any crosses using Japanese Black Trifele as a parent? And if so, what can I expect in the F1 and F2 generations?

Thanks for any interest in this thread,

Sean

[travis]

When working tomato blossoms, bees carry pollen from several different tomato plants they have visited on a single trip. So, the accidental crosses that occur can be from one or more pollen sources and not necessarily the closest source.
Moreover, the blossoms bees visit for pollen collection are those most ready to yield pollen in response to the vibrations emitting from the bees, who will skip over plants in their search pattern, not necessarily landing from adjacent plant to next closest adjacent plant.
I've watched carpenter bees work a couple of blossoms on one tomato vine, then skip ten feet or farther, ignoring several closer vines, and land on a vine quite some distance away.
As to what you may expect on a random cross with JBT, in the F1, if the unknown parent is round, you will get a round F1 fruit.

[M.SeanF.]

Thanks for the insight on bee behavior, I didn't consider that they build up pollen from each successive flower. Makes complete sense.

I suspected round would be the dominant shape, thanks for the confirmation. What about size? Can a slicer crossed with trifele end up cherry sized?

[travis]

Basically a 3-ounce x a 12-ounce will not yield more than a 5 or 6 ounce F1.

Example: When I crossed Green Giant (a 10 - 12-ounce beefsteak) x Yellow Submarine (a 1-ounce potato leaf yellow pear cherry), I got perfectly round, yellow, ping pong ball size cocktail tomatoes

[M.SeanF.]

Thanks for the info. I noticed that one of the 'twins' has set it's first fruit, I can wait to see how it developes.

[M.SeanF.]

Here is a pic. of the first fruit set on one of the JBT cross F1 plants. The blossom scar is quite off-center, otherwise it is almost perfectly round. It looks like it will be as early as its pure JBT sisters. Last year JBT was the earliest slicer for me, even beating Stupice by several days.

[M.SeanF.]

Now that more fruits have set, I want to give an update on my JBT X ? F1 plants.

Both plants are nice and lush and have covered their shared trellis, so far about 4.5 feet high and still growing. Now that both plants have multiple fruits I'm seeing a fair amount of variation in shape, with both plants showing most shapes. A few are slightly irregular, round spheres. Most are somewhat blocky, and a little taller than wide, with occasional ribbing near the shoulders. One is beefsteak shaped with considerable ribbing, it's also the biggest. Most of the fruits are about the size of walnuts, with several a little bigger than golf balls.

Attached is a photo showing the range of shapes. The beefsteak is in the mid-upper right. Directly below it is one of the round spheres.

From the size range I'm still thinking Pink Boar is the likely pollen donor. Not showing any striping though. I can't wait until they start to blush and I can make better guesses.

Sean

[M.SeanF.]

I harvested my first ripe fruit from one of the JBT X ? F1. In the picture it is the one in the middle, between a Sungold and a Blush for comparison. It is evenly coloured and just beginning to soften. It's the same fruit in the first photo in this thread. The plant went into the ground on May 11th, so 66 days. Not bad for this area. Haven't decided to taste test it or save seed. I'm going to let it sit on a sunny counter to see if it deepens in colour any while I decide.

[EBHarvey]

Don't be surprised if you don't see any striping. Even the gs gene usually, in my experience, only manifests itself in the F1 generation as faint streaking, if at all. If the pollen parent was a boar you should see pronounced striping in the F2.

[ginger2778]

You can have your seeds and eat it too.Just cut a small wedge of seed and flesh to eat, then save seeds from the rest. We are curious as to thee taste.

[M.SeanF.]

I compromised as suggested and sliced off the bottom to taste. the flesh had the texture of JBT but the flavour was a little brighter. Overall the flavour was pretty good, some fruity sweetness with a little zing. I'm looking forward to more ripening next week

[M.SeanF.]

Originally Posted by EBHarvey

Don't be surprised if you don't see any striping. Even the gs gene usually, in my experience, only manifests itself in the F1 generation as faint streaking, if at all. If the pollen parent was a boar you should see pronounced striping in the F2.

I didn't expect any striping this generation. The size and shape, and now flavour, seem to point towards Pink Boar as the male. I was a little surprised with the colour. I was expecting something a bit darker, not this pretty pink.

[M.SeanF.]

I just finished fermenting and drying the seeds from this first JBT X ? F1 tomato. I got about 20 seeds from this fruit. Most are pretty big, 2 are rather tiny. Is variation in seed size something to be expected when seed saving from an F1?


In the photo the large seeds at either end of the row are from the F1. The other three seeds are(right to left) Marmande, Beam's Yellow Pear, Japanese Black Trifele. The 2 smallest seeds from the F1 fruit are about the size of the BYP.